Andrews EV13

[Ron W.]

   After reading a post about gearing and cams I'm convinced that the EV13 cam is for me, I want as much bottom end as I can get. my bike is a 1996 dyna, stock gearing, with head milled to 10:1, no porting, HI-4, Vance Hines 2 to 1 short propipe, Super E. I've got a cam in the bike and was told that it was a Crane 356. The bike was bought this way.
   
Does the cam come with the .108" gage pins and if not where can I get them?

I'm also going to install an S&S Reed breather
Any input will be appreciated.
Ron

[L-]

Sure you won't like the EV-27 better at 10.0:1??

[Ron W.]

   No, I'm not sure thats why I posted this and am hoping for any information I can get before parts are ordered. The cam in the bike now starts to come on at about 2500 and for my riding style more bottom end would be more fun. I'm leaving until tuesday and hope to get all the info I can by then.
Thanks Ron

[ClassicRider2002]

Whatever you decide to do....take a breath and take your time.....we are getting close to the riding season for most of us....and one can tend to get impatient and make decisions they later regret.....just when you think you have heard something you think you will like you will wake up with a new different feeling.

Ok with that said.....you have an EVO....what are you trying to accomplish....what's your riding style and your riding enviornment.....

Is your bike exactly stock right now or have you made changes to it......are you a "heavy" rider or a "light" rider....will you travel two up or 1 up most of the time.....  ? ? ?

Go out and ride your bike....and look at your tac and figure out where you are primarily shifting.....ie: helps to identify the type of rider you are a bit.

Do you want low in torque or high end power....in a 80" motor will be tough to get both.....so pick where you want to be.

Also you could change your primary gearing to get more torque if you like which is another possibility....

So anyway......

Regards,

"Classic"

[Ron W.]

  My first post should pretty well describe the bike. As for my riding I'm 2 up about 50% of the time. However, when I do go on a trip alone the load is fairly heavy as I camp alot. The roads here in Oregon vary from tight and windy to open desert I'm happy with the stock gearing and wouldn't want to lose any MPH also, am not looking for any more. My riding, after 35 years both on and off the track, is a bike with alot of bottom end power, torque. Something that will pull strong
and long coming off turns and up hill without alot of shifting. My weight is about 220 geared up and I dare not give my passengers weight.
  The reply you gave to the member asking about gearing is what got me thinking about changing cams, the one in now comes on about 2500 and pulls up beyond 5500, I have only run the bike this hard a few times to see what it's power band is. Most of my shifting is between 3000 and 3500 with an occasonal burst to 4500.
  At 50 I've finally learn some patience so I'll wait until I've obtained all the info I can. I'll be back on line tuesday.
Any information and opinion is appreciated.
Thanks Ron

[96roadking]

   After reading a post about gearing and cams I'm convinced that the EV13 cam is for me, I want as much bottom end as I can get. my bike is a 1996 dyna, stock gearing, with head milled to 10:1, no porting, HI-4, Vance Hines 2 to 1 short propipe, Super E. I've got a cam in the bike and was told that it was a Crane 356. The bike was bought this way.
   
Does the cam come with the .108" gage pins and if not where can I get them?

I'm also going to install an S&S Reed breather
Any input will be appreciated.
Ron

I was told a story by a guy on another forum when I was trying to decide between the EV-13 and EV-27. He had a mid 90's Heritage Softail and his buddy had a mid 90's Bagger. They both had the same mods, 10-1 comp. Ignition upgrades. The Softail had the EV-27, the Bagger had the EV-13. The Bagger would pull away from the Softail unless he downshifted to a lower gear and then he could barely keep up. At Highway speeds above 75 mph, the Softail would walk the Bagger. The Bagger weighed more but had different gearing than the Softail. I believe the Dyna and the Baggers had the same gearing in the mid 90's. Anyway you get the picture, both bikes with the same mods, different cams and the bagger would pull away at low, midrange driving speeds. If you drive like crazy at High speeds then you would want something that pulls harder in that range. I myself am a putter, at most the bike see's 4000-4500 rpm when accelerating so I want the power down low. There are plenty of hills here in CT and the EV-13 would pull much better. The Ev-27 actually lowers your static compression some, in your case your comp. is already raised, and slams the valves closed because of the fast ramps, so it's noisier. The EV-13 is suppose to lower engine temperature, has something to do with the exhaust timing. So look at your riding requirements, were do you spend most of the time riding in hills or highways, high speed or puttin, heavy loaded or lightweight and you will have no problem deciding. Oh, I went with the EV-13, 96 RoadKing.

[fxr4mikey]

Sure you won't like the EV-27 better at 10.0:1??

I would think that the 27 would better at that CR ......... but what do I know ........ I'm gonna be running a wood cam  LOL

[fxr4mikey]

My riding style is just a wee bit different than yours. However in my search I came down to 3 cams

AV27 (Andrews)
DM500 (Dave Mackie)
W6 (Bob Wood)

in the end I choose the W6 .... reason being is that it married up better with my riding style.  I often bang up against the rev limit of 6K on my bike. It's not unusual for me to hit the limit several times a day.  I don't mind down shifting when hitting hard into a tight curve/twistie and love to goose it and wind it out coming out the other side.

The AV27 and DM500 make more power lower down in the RPM range and are better for roll on power low down.  You want some more humpf in the mid-range, look at the W6 .. it'll come on about 1800-2000 and pull hard right out to 5500

well, there ya have it, my 2centsworth, yurwelcome

[ClassicRider2002]

Mikey is a cool person.....and is doing a wonderful job describing a build he is doing to his 2000 FXR4, you can take a peek at the THREAD via a "LINK" @

SIMPLY, CLICK, VIEW & READ:

MIKEY'S FXR4 MILD BUILD

Mikey's and my riding style are different.....but our tastes in motorcycles is quite similar....I too own a 1999 FXR2.  He certainly owns a beautiful bike, 2000 FXR4, and is doing a amazing job helping us all see his build.....as he progresses through it.....His riding style is to take that bike occassionally up to rev limiter using all that it will give him @ times....when he is in the mood.....going up against the rev limiter is not something he shys away from.....I am actually excited to listen and read about the critque of the cam he has chosen....

Now back to your build.....you mention you have 10.0:1 compression.....do you know the facts about your engine or what someone has told you....meaning that....do you have a clear understanding about whether your "Corrected Compression is at 10.0:1 or is this Compression provided for a "Static" Compression representation.....Do you have OEM pistons or have your cylinders been bored out with bigger pistons......

I have a buddy that has personally owned a 96 Dyna and ran the bike with an EV27 in it.....and he liked it so much he put it in two other bikes.....one of which he still owns which is also a 1999 FXR3.  He and Mikey would be in aggreement about this cam....especially for the weight of your Dyna.  So far Mikey has some supporting evidence for his reflections....not that he needs my approval I am merely adding support to his presentation.....

I certainly enjoyed reading 96Roadking's reflections.....he was quite detailed in his offerings of thought.....He offered some great insight.....

It seems to me that you are using this bike for mulitple purposes some "touring" as well as some riding that is one up and gets you going with your buddies....But you are a bigger male....and so when your loaded up you have a bike that's workin for you......

You seemed to have read a post I recently responded to about some ideas and thoughts.....My head has been "wrapped" around "corrected compression" and cranking compression, and 'static compression" for awhile now.....it has me torn into my 2002 RKC and quite frankly I am glad to be talkin about an evo motor with you....lol.....These evos sometimes make riding what it is about......lol....simply riding.....while the Twin Cams always seem to be a mouse looking for something beyond the cookie....

Anyway....here's the deal.....we own similar bikes.....I want an earlier intake angle cam...which means torque early and out of steam later.....I wouldn't feel comfortable with corrected compression at 10.0:1 with an evo.....but we don't know that you have that officially....because we haven't "operationally" defined our terms.......You mention your heads have been millled but haven't mentioned to what CC's........

Bottom line.....for my riding style which doesn't necessarily equate to your riding style.....but I can tell you....I have no desire to ride my bike @ RPMS much above 5,000 and that would be in the rarest of occassions.....meaning that shifting at around 4800 RPMS would typically 95% of the time describe my maximum shifting style........so I simply don't need a cam to continue to grow much past 4800 RPMS.......I would concentrate on the benefits of the EV13 as well as the EV23 which offers just a bit higher lift.....than the EV13.  Remember I have no personal experience with either cam.......they are quit similar....but the wonderful thing about both of the cams is that they are both extremely to the "left" of the torque curve meaning that you can't go anymore "left" of the center line when it comes to cam selection....I think you would benefit from the more extreme torque....

I wish you the very best in your decision.....eventually we all line up with someone else's opinion.....because that's all we have to go on....unless we have the opportunity to ride other bikes and builds.....@ which point someone else's opinion becomes our personal experience......and ultimately you need to ask yourself what do you want your bike to do....one other cam you might consider is the Crane V~Thunder or EVL 3000 cam with an intake close angle of 34 degrees.  The EV13 has a intake close angle of 31 and the EV23 has an intake close angle of 30.

Personally give me the torque quick and let me have my "legal" fun.  But remember I am running 2.925 gearing....and I am running a EVL 3010 with a intake close angle of 39 degrees with my FXR2, but I would like a bit more torque down low.....meaning that my input here is not from personal experience it's from understanding a bit more now about what I want.....but don't currently have....like I want to run screamin eagle heads @ 72cc's with OEM pistons and a .030" HG maybe more with a 34 intake close angle which would match me up with a EVL 3000 however.......realistically running a EV13 or EV23 would answer the same question you are weighing out as well.....torque curve all the way over to the left.....if your OEM gearing is 3.15 then maybe the EVL 3000 would be better......I would say that Mikey's suggestion is over towards the "right" in the example of where your power band will be.

I am sure there will be great input here provided to you.....and HOPEFULLY you save this THREAD and after you put some miles on whatever you decide you will come back and report what your decision is.....so many never do such so the "end of the story" is never "told or "learned".

Regards,

"Classic"

[Porkchop]

On a evo bagger I tried both, I liked the 27 but for my riding style I kept the13 and really liked it for all around road use.   Went to Alaska with  that cam and worked real great. 

PC

[sandrooney]

I used two 7/64 drill bits for the pins to measure gear. Use the end that chucks in the drill, probably didn't need to add that, but you never know.
SR

[L-]

Ron,

I only mess with a couple of EVO's now because they are friends of mine.  I had a test bed '93 FXR and would first like to say I would never build stock cases over 9.5:1 compression ratio, anymore.  But I suppose you can go as high as you want and get a cam to bleed it off.  I have used the 13's and 27's.  Call Andrews on these.  But I would never consider a 13 in a 10.0 engine.  I really like the 27's a lot with stock heads in a light bike and light rider but one needs to mill the heads to get back lost cranking compression.  I would shoot for 170 or so cranking compression.  You are going to need a good ignition system.  The bottom line is if you are looking for torque at 80 inches there are limits.  One thing to consider is keeping that nice ole engine and doing a S&S platform 96 or larger.  So a cranking compression test now and see what you have before changing anything.

[ClassicRider2002]

I certainly agree with what L has said above he has some insight....."...I would never build stock cases over 9.5:1 compression ratio, anymore.  But I suppose you can go as high as you want and get a cam to bleed it off.  I have used the 13's and 27's....." 

Thus you have some decisions to make....do you keep what you have exactly as you have it and go down the highway....or do you "dig" in and get what you want......I have been exhaustively "caught" up in a very similar experience with a Twin Cam Touing bike since before Decemeber and am now coming out on the other end of all of it.....that's why you need to decide what you want, take your time and proceed....it costs nothing to type except time....but once you begin turning the wrench money starts getting spent.....So as "L" stated above.....I too would most likely side with the "conversative" side of the plateform of the motor.....getting back to some basic principles....of what specifically do you want....once you determine that then you can proceed smoothly.

Foundationally after what I have been through with my TWIN CAM here is what I desire....it's an opinion and you can identify with it or scrap it and go with another's opinion.....which is the way it should be...like I said until experience has been had we have to go on other peoples opinions.....:

1) Know what pistons you are running....ie: are they oem stock or are they bigger bores....
2) know exactly what cc's your heads have been "milled" to....not a guess.
3) know exactly what HG you are running 0.030" or 0.040" or whatever....as squish is part of the equation here.
4) As for your current "cam" right now that doesn't really matter because apparently what you are riding doesn't respond the way you want to ride.
5) Know what you would like to experience on your bike.....an objective opinion, this is where it's tough.....because everyone's personalities and desires are different....lol and is exactly why we ride motorcycles....some for barhopping fun and for others a leisurely stroll...

For me I already know what I want out of my FXR....I will take the time to put on SE Heads and have them CC'd (they are advertised as 72cc's but one never knows for sure) I would then change the springs in those heads to the proper seat pressure for the cam I was desiring to run most likely 155 lbs max and I would have the valve seals changed over to cometics....once that was done.....then with the OEM "stock" pistons I would run it with my EVL-3010 cam since both modifications are indpendent of one another then for aprox $200.00 each time, I would try one of 3 other cams...ie: the Andrews EV13 or EV23 (most likely the EV13) and or the Crane V~Thunder EVL 3000 bringing me into a lower intake close angle cam ie: EV13 = 31, EV23 = 30, EVL 3000 = 34.  My current cam Crane V~Thunder is @ 39.  So there would be no sense modifying it after immediately dealing with the heads since one could check it out..... All 4 of these cams are considered "mild" cams most definitely....and I wouldn't see any huge performance "swings" between either of them....but one may feel or sound just right.....but I wouldn't go through and perform 3 additional R&D experiences....I would pick max 2 of them.....and then resell the  two not kept (as I already have one running now ie: EVL-3010)......I would tend to have the most curiosity about the EV13 or EV23 as they are to the extreme left of the power curve meaning early torque.....buttttttt I really do like the EVL-3010 V-Thunder as well even in my oem stock engine set up.....Big boyz calculator BIG BOYZ EVO COMPRESSION AND ENGINE DISPLACEMENT CALCULATOR can explain the differences in each one of those decisions....and offer all 4 cams to look at as well as others....@ sea level nothing would take you over 9.56:1 "static compression" and most would leave you below 9.1:1 corrected compression with cranking compression floating between 180-188.  You can see even now I am arguing with myself which I would go with out of those 3.....lol.....but currently with what I have out of those 4 cams above the EVL-3010 is the furtherest to the right with the highest intake close angle of 39 degrees....so I would check out the EV-13.  I am most curious about this one.

This is of course puts me on an island between several FXR owners of which are running EV-27s and Mikey who has already discussed his riding style a bit and cam chosen....

So I agree with "L" above in that you start changing your cam....and the rest of your bike is built for the cam you are running you might not be as happy as you would if you started from scratch with more of a "foundational" sound approach.....this is what gets us all into trouble over and over and over again....picking what we feel are "great" pieces....or instruments within a choir and yet never listening to the "conductor" who will make "pieces" or instruments become music....lol Harley's and "music" what's up with that....lol.....duh potata, potata, potata....lol

Regards,

"Classic"

[fxr4mikey]

~~
....getting back to some basic principles....of what specifically do you want....once you determine that then you can proceed smoothly.
for some, it takes longer to figure this part out than actually doing it .... for me, I took about 6 months to decide on the components that would be used in my build.  I did a lot of reading, and talking to a lot of people about different cams, heads, porting and all that.  But mostly I tried to be serious with my self about my riding style and where in the RPM range I wanted to have my power. 

I went on many rides, watching the tach, and trying to enjoy the ride, while at the same time trying to be aware of my 'style' without changing it just because I was 'aware' of it.  I tried to think of WHEN in the ride, and HOW during the ride that I get that big chit eating grinn on my face 

~~

This is of course puts me on an island between several FXR owners of which are running EV-27s and Mikey who has already discussed his riding style a bit and cam chosen....
My style .... I ride easy, a lot of the time, I can putt putt with the best of em ..... but the THRILL that I get is when I JUMP on my bike. I don't ride IN TOWN much, and I live out in the country. So I get a lot of back country/state highway riding, and I prefer that.  It is NOT UNCOMMON for me to hit the rev limiter through first, second and third and wind out to 4500 or so in forth, but which I time I'm deceling for a curve or since I'm going 80+ already and that's plenty fast enough.  So, it's safe to say that I like my power a bit higher in the RPM range.  I don't want it all the way at the top, but I like to keep the throttle open to the red line and I don't want the bike to stop making power when she hits 4500 or 5000 RPMs.... I want it to keep making power at least to 5500, where after that it's only a 'noise thing'   LOL


So I agree with "L" above in that you start changing your cam....and the rest of your bike is built for the cam you are running you might not be as happy as you would if you started from scratch with more of a "foundational" sound approach.....this is what gets us all into trouble over and over and over again....picking what we feel are "great" pieces....or instruments within a choir and yet never listening to the "conductor" who will make "pieces" or instruments become music....lol Harley's and "music" what's up with that....lol.....duh potata, potata, potata....lol

Regards,

"Classic"

I'm putting the SE heads on my bike with a .030 head gasket (my bike is a 80 inch 1340 EVO) which will bring me to 9.56:1 cr.
That will work very well with any of the cams listed in this thread.  It will also work with the one that I've chosen, which is the Wood W6.

It's my leaned experience and limited education that the Harley's have a rpm band of about 3500 rpm's in which the bike will be making power.
All you have to do is have good flowing heads, 9.5:1 CR and a cam that performs in the rpm range where you want your power.

For me, and my riding style, that range is 2000 to 5500 rpm's

My style is that I 'usually don't just putt off idle, I give it enough gas to get her moving and then I 'usually' crank it open, WOT a lot of the time, by not 'always'.  I can 'behave' when I'm in town, and in traffic, but on the open country roads I like to nail it through the gears. I'm not 'EASY' on my ride, nor am I abusive to it.  I have no fear that my bike will come apart if I run it hard or hit the rev limit.  My perspective is that the bike will run in any gear, at any RPM ALL DAY LONG.  You could run your bike in second gear (or any other gear) at 5000 RPMs for 2 miles .... you won't like the noise, you won't like the gas mileage, you won't like the vibration .... but IMO, the bike is capable of running that way 

I rider 98%+ of the time one up, I'm 5'9" and weigh in at 170-175.  When I go on extended trips, I might be carrying 40-50 pounds of gear.
I ride a FXR4, lightweight bike. So having power off idle is not an issue that I deal with or feel that is missing, even in my STOCK condition.

Now ..... if you've seen a thread that I started you know that I'm still 'in progress' in completing my build.  This however has no impact on my riding style, just the opposite of course ... it's my 'riding style' that dictated the build components that I've chosen.


Best of Luck to you in your search the components for your ride !

[crazylore]

U can get the pins a JP... but I used 7/64 drill bits...worked fine when I put an EV13 in my 96 FLSTF

[Black Diamond]

My riding style is just a wee bit different than yours. However in my search I came down to 3 cams

AV27 (Andrews)
DM500 (Dave Mackie)
W6 (Bob Wood)

in the end I choose the W6 .... reason being is that it married up better with my riding style.  I often bang up against the rev limit of 6K on my bike. It's not unusual for me to hit the limit several times a day.  I don't mind down shifting when hitting hard into a tight curve/twistie and love to goose it and wind it out coming out the other side.

The AV27 and DM500 make more power lower down in the RPM range and are better for roll on power low down.  You want some more humpf in the mid-range, look at the W6 .. it'll come on about 1800-2000 and pull hard right out to 5500

well, there ya have it, my 2centsworth, yurwelcome

I have been researching the same cams. I'm leaning towards the Wood W6 as I plan on doing some head work later on. I feel this will make the W6 the better choice for me as the squeeze will be in the 9.8:1 to 10:1 range. A little too high for the EV27 I have and had planned on using. Oh Well someone will want it.

And here's a shout out to Tim, Mike and Howie.

JW

[fxr4mikey]

My riding style is just a wee bit different than yours. However in my search I came down to 3 cams

AV27 (Andrews)
DM500 (Dave Mackie)
W6 (Bob Wood)

in the end I choose the W6 .... reason being is that it married up better with my riding style.  I often bang up against the rev limit of 6K on my bike. It's not unusual for me to hit the limit several times a day.  I don't mind down shifting when hitting hard into a tight curve/twistie and love to goose it and wind it out coming out the other side.

The AV27 and DM500 make more power lower down in the RPM range and are better for roll on power low down.  You want some more humpf in the mid-range, look at the W6 .. it'll come on about 1800-2000 and pull hard right out to 5500

well, there ya have it, my 2centsworth, yurwelcome

I have been researching the same cams. I'm leaning towards the Wood W6 as I plan on doing some head work later on. I feel this will make the W6 the better choice for me as the squeeze will be in the 9.8:1 to 10:1 range. A little to high for the EV27 I have and had planned on using. Oh Well someone will want it.

And here's a shout out to Tim, Mike and Howie.

JW

Hey there JW !!  Good ta see ya over here !!
If/When I get mine back together, I'll let ya know how I like that W6 

[Sc00ter]

My riding style is just a wee bit different than yours. However in my search I came down to 3 cams

AV27 (Andrews)
DM500 (Dave Mackie)
W6 (Bob Wood)

in the end I choose the W6 .... reason being is that it married up better with my riding style.  I often bang up against the rev limit of 6K on my bike. It's not unusual for me to hit the limit several times a day.  I don't mind down shifting when hitting hard into a tight curve/twistie and love to goose it and wind it out coming out the other side.

The AV27 and DM500 make more power lower down in the RPM range and are better for roll on power low down.  You want some more humpf in the mid-range, look at the W6 .. it'll come on about 1800-2000 and pull hard right out to 5500

well, there ya have it, my 2centsworth, yurwelcome

I have been researching the same cams. I'm leaning towards the Wood W6 as I plan on doing some head work later on. I feel this will make the W6 the better choice for me as the squeeze will be in the 9.8:1 to 10:1 range. A little to high for the EV27 I have and had planned on using. Oh Well someone will want it.

And here's a shout out to Tim, Mike and Howie.

JW

And a shout out to you, Jeff!

Scott

[Black Diamond]

Hey Scoot.
Great info here on the evos and FXRs.
I've talked with my builder in Danville plus Scott from Hillside as well as Bob Wood. I'm going with the W6 as I know I will end up doing more to the motor as time goes on. The W6 will grow with the mods were the EV27 is best with a stock or mostly stock 80".
I have a brand new EV27 if anyones interested.sold

I saw Blaine's over here too.

JW

[ClassicRider2002]

Hi Jeff....

Seems like more and more are going with the W6 cam.....excited to read about Mikey's experience and yours as well Jeff....

Regards,

"Classic"

[hotbo]

the ev27 will not work to good at a true 10-1.the intake close is 36degress thats to soon.some may get away with it. imo its b/c they have not got a true 10-1 mill.

at 10-1 the woods6    will be the best cam for the job.just my 2 cents.

[hotbo]

we have used 3 woods6 cams over the past few years they are freaking great in a 80inc mill  1 was a bolt-in with no work ,soft down low but then comes alive,the other 2 have worked over heads,s/e heads and sbc scottsman heads 10-1 with 2-1 pipes.they will "Potty mouth" and git.lol!!!youll love it.good  luck,travis   

[Evo1]

At what rpm level did the w6 come on at with the SE heads?

Steve

[Ron W.]

   Sorry that I haven't replied, my dog of 13 years just died and I've been an emotional wreck. I've read all of your replies and aprciate the input.
  I don't know the exact compression or what the heads have been milled too. The pistons are flat top K-B,s I know because I rebuilt and bored the top end one size over. The rest I was told by the previous owner.
I would assume that the comprssion has been increased just because the way it runs compared to others that have stock compression with basically the same mods.
  I will print out this thread and reread it several times before deciding what to try.
Thanks Ron

[hotbo]

At what rpm level did the w6 come on at with the SE heads?

Steve

the 1 with the SE heads is in my brothers 97 roadking.he says it comes on good at around 2300-2400 according to him.this bike has flattops with the s/e heads that were milled to reach 10-1 .030 hg and the pistons were in the hole around 5-6 thousandths on each cylinder.he loves it been running it for 2 years.ran a crane cam  before that.it was night and day difference.he says it pulls to 6grand all day.i have rode it a couple of times and it runs really well for a barge with a 80 inch mill.