Power Vision vs Se Pro tuner

[joe_lyons]

Good decision.  any help that you will need is on here and fuel moto or dynojet for that matter. 

[hrdtail78]

 

[joe_lyons]

OK so no help from hardtail78 but everyone is still good.

[hrdtail78]

OK so no help from hardtail78 but everyone is still good.

I'm just amazed members suggest taking off a perfectly good tuning system for another on such a mild SE build.  I've been around here a little bit Joe.  I have witnessed the insults, and slander for just this same thing.  But it's a dead horse and product was bought.  I'm sure he will be happy with the new device.  So, I erased my post. 

[Coyote]

OK so no help from hardtail78 but everyone is still good.

I'm just amazed members suggest taking off a perfectly good tuning system for another on such a mild SE build.  I've been around here a little bit Joe.  I have witnessed the insults, and slander for just this same thing.  But it's a dead horse and product was bought.  I'm sure he will be happy with the new device.  So, I erased my post.

Funny I just re-read this entire thread and all I got out of it was members telling the OP he could do what he wanted with the tool he already had. It was the OP that decided to buy another tuner.

[uwiik]

Well I am getting ready to do a mild build on my 2012 Flstc. Se 204 cams, SS adjustable pushrods S/E stage 1 air cleaner, Gaterman Lifters, V/H short shot slip ons. Already have a Se pro tuner installed. My worries are this..I have doubts and am having a hard time finding any one in my area who can tune worth a damn so I am either stuck with just re flashing my ecm with the stage 2 map (can do my self with the tuner) or changing tuners to something more user friendly.  I have read allot about the power vision and have figured for what it would cost to haul my bike god knows were to be tuned and hopefully get a good one, I can buy a power vision and attempt to tune it myself. Any one have a similar set up with the 204 cams?  Any advice or experiences would be appreciated...

Thanks

I am on the same dilema myself. My bike has SEPST installed when I bought it but the geniusses at dealership simply loaded a wrong base map on it and be done with it...I am computer savy and know a thing or two about tuning, but this SEPST thing just overwhelmed me. I also found out myself that tuning with SEPST really is not convenient, having to constantly deal with connecting and disconnecting plugs, reflash procedure, this and that, and the biggest downside to me, having to deal with windows OS, everybody know windows suck with all the antivirus and gazillion of running background programs that might interfere with what you are doing in the worst time...i reformatted my old windows laptop and install nothing but SEPST software for my peace of mind. On the other hand, I think PV is really great that you can tune your bike conveniently by having built in touchscreen on tune in an instant and not having to deal with other software that might crash and cause cathastropic failure at the worst time...

I am sure if I have enough time to devote to learn SEPST I will eventually get it and able to tune my bike properly with it, but unfortunately I don't have that much time, and even more unfortunate, I don't have the money to buy Power Vision right now, so I am forced to stick with my SEPST and learn to the best of my ability.

Bottomline is, if you are prepared to pay the cost OR you don't have much time to fiddle and learn, I would say go for it and ditch that SEPST and make a very expensive keychain out of it, that way you'll never lost your key...

I don't have firsthand experience, but from what I read, there are plenty of support for PV and one can get very close to perfection just by rellying on PV maps from PV vendors or auto tune...

Just my two cents...

Peace

  After kicking it around some more I pulled the trigger and ordered a power Vision from Fuel Moto.  spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Brian and he answered all my questions to my satisfaction. They also have a trade in program going on so I can send my Sepst orange box in and Can get 150$ credited back to me. That kinda takes some of the sting out of it....So i am rationalizing that  the cost for me to haul the bike somewhere for a  tune that may or may not be good and the rebate I am at a break even point. Based on the research i have done I am feeling good about this decision...

Now I am very jealous. I do not live in the US, otherwise I would happily trade in my SEPST with PV from fuel moto....i figured after shipping cost and comparing discounted price without trade in from fuel moto I would've actually spend more if I send my SEPST to the US.

[uwiik]

OK so no help from hardtail78 but everyone is still good.

I'm just amazed members suggest taking off a perfectly good tuning system for another on such a mild SE build.  I've been around here a little bit Joe.  I have witnessed the insults, and slander for just this same thing.  But it's a dead horse and product was bought.  I'm sure he will be happy with the new device.  So, I erased my post.

Most of us are just a mere mortal without any deep knowledge on tuning, and SEPST is not exactly easy for dummies like us, I am still frustrated with my SEPST until this day. With unlimited support from fuel moto and the option to go auto tune PV is a no brainer for people like me.

[HD/Wrench]

I agree that some tools work better in certain areas than others. However understand one fact and that is tuning via internet is a trial and error deal. It comes back to understanding the tool you have and how to make it work the best. Sorry but no way in hell can you tell me and prove that a PV is far better than the HD tool.  The tuner the OP had would have worked fine and all the tuners know it, you want to pick a side go ahead.

I bought my 12 with a SEST and I have a PV that I use to tune my own bike and others with the flash program. Best way to describ it would be different. 

Now for the big inch engines I will say that I feel the PV is lacking and I can prove that. With tons of logs as well the beta test.  But please tell me how many others that want to support the PV to the point to say its better than another can show me where they have tuned several 117 + inch engines and show me the set up. As I went through several maps from dyno jet to get enough fuel in this last bike.

6.2 injectors in it. had the PV almost bottomed out for injector size CI at 143 and still came close to being near top limit. Speaking with PV and getting altered maps to support the larger inch engines and starting with the base from S&S was helpfull but more time in it than I would have like to be investing.  Now with the two other tuners that would not have been the issue. I could have pulled a base map and been done with having to wait for maps.

I do not feel that the PV is not up to par just that there is areas where they need to improve. As more and more use it the base cals should be getting better. Time will tell.. It would not be my first choice. But hell I recall when 117 where being tuned with PCIII tuners and we all got the job done.


But I am sure this will fall on deaf ears.  I hope that your new tuner works out and that the tune is spot on from the start.

[Durwood]

OK so no help from hardtail78 but everyone is still good.

I'm just amazed members suggest taking off a perfectly good tuning system for another on such a mild SE build.  I've been around here a little bit Joe.  I have witnessed the insults, and slander for just this same thing.  But it's a dead horse and product was bought.  I'm sure he will be happy with the new device.  So, I erased my post.

Most of us are just a mere mortal without any deep knowledge on tuning, and SEPST is not exactly easy for dummies like us, I am still frustrated with my SEPST until this day. With unlimited support from fuel moto and the option to go auto tune PV is a no brainer for people like me.

And, Power Vision is more than just a tuner, The trip meters, mileage calculators, ect,  are just a small part of why I like the Power Vision.

I have learned a lot by using the monitor, Say I pick up a ping? , I have a different screens set up, one with RPM, MAP, Degrees of timing pulled for each cylinder, so I can actually see where my problem is in real time, and if it's worth addressing, without having to have a dyno or a computer hangin off my bike, This is just one of 4 that can be personalized by the bike owner.

The best part of owning the Power Vision is that Jamie's people at Fuel Moto are Ready, Willing and Able to help their customers, without talking to us like we're stupid, even if we really are. LOL

[x52gnr]

 I made this decision based on many factors, ease of tuning based on my resources and skills. Yes it is a basic / mild build but as we all know things change and in a year or 2 or 3 I may want to change something again and it may not be so mild the next time. Believe me, I don't have unlimited funds or time to tinker. I don't want to spend 3-400 dollars to dyno it every time I change something. When I bought the bike used the previous owner had the tuner already installed so like any accessory that's on a bike when you buy it may or may not meet your needs. With the trade in, the tech support available and the re search I have done I feel I am making the best decision based on my needs , time and abilities. Hell I can hang on to the Sepst and sell it with the bike if I ever get rid of it, keep the Power Vision, pay the 200$ license fee and transfer it to another bike if need be. I have played out all the scenario's and I have no regrets on the decision... I had no intent to start a pissing contest, please don't let this thread turn to that...

Thank you

[HD/Wrench]

I made this decision based on many factors, ease of tuning based on my resources and skills. Yes it is a basic / mild build but as we all know things change and in a year or 2 or 3 I may want to change something again and it may not be so mild the next time. Believe me, I don't have unlimited funds or time to tinker. I don't want to spend 3-400 dollars to dyno it every time I change something. When I bought the bike used the previous owner had the tuner already installed so like any accessory that's on a bike when you buy it may or may not meet your needs. With the trade in, the tech support available and the re search I have done I feel I am making the best decision based on my needs , time and abilities. Hell I can hang on to the Sepst and sell it with the bike if I ever get rid of it, keep the Power Vision, pay the 200$ license fee and transfer it to another bike if need be. I have played out all the scenario's and I have no regrets on the decision... I had no intent to start a pissing contest, please don't let this thread turn to that...

Thank you

I agree that is is great for guys that make changes , HA HA thats why I have one for my own bike.. I may swap a part ride it back and forth to work and get it on the drum when I have a spare minute and being that I had been running auto tune I can see how something works or changes. I also agree that it is more than just a tuning tool. Myself I am not a fan of how small the screen is. I really have a hard time seeing it in the light.

Durwood hit some very good points as well.

[Jamie Long]

Now for the big inch engines I will say that I feel the PV is lacking and I can prove that. With tons of logs as well the beta test.  But please tell me how many others that want to support the PV to the point to say its better than another can show me where they have tuned several 117 + inch engines and show me the set up. As I went through several maps from dyno jet to get enough fuel in this last bike.

6.2 injectors in it. had the PV almost bottomed out for injector size CI at 143 and still came close to being near top limit. Speaking with PV and getting altered maps to support the larger inch engines and starting with the base from S&S was helpfull but more time in it than I would have like to be investing.  Now with the two other tuners that would not have been the issue. I could have pulled a base map and been done with having to wait for maps.

I do not feel that the PV is not up to par just that there is areas where they need to improve. As more and more use it the base cals should be getting better. Time will tell.. It would not be my first choice. But hell I recall when 117 where being tuned with PCIII tuners and we all got the job done.

I would strongly disagree with this regarding higher output builds, especially considering we are all tuning the same tables within the Delphi ECM, regardless of product. It all comes down to the toolset you are working with and user proficiency with the product. We have tuned many, many, high HP builds with Power Vision including our own 155Hp 117", in fact it was simple to tune, even with 62mm TB, huge injectors, 12:1 comp, and Wood's TW-68 cams @ 720 lift.

[mayor]

X52, it sounds like you made a decision based on weighing everything out.  I don't think anyone will disagree with the logic you used.  I think what hrdtail and GMR are looking at is you could have quite possibly been able to use what you have know with the same of similar results to what you are getting, and without the added expense of the switch. I have never used the SEPST, but I have played with the software.  When I compare it to the WinPV or Mastertune software all I can think of that compares is the Microsoft Windows transition back from Windows XP to DOS.  I have no doubt that the SE software has the ability to work, but I can see why someone with limited understanding of the tuning process would be intimidated by that software.  The PV does seem to be designed primarily for the DIY'er, at least based on my perspective.  DJ seems to have gone out of their way to improve the product to the point that it is really easy to get a pretty good tune in the majority of riding ranges.  I have tuned with it on a dyno on a few occasions, and street tuned with it on one.  The street tuning was a much better experience for me than on a dyno.  I just don't think the system is quite there yet for dyno tuners, since that screen is very small and can shake a good bit when the engine is under load in the lower rpm's.  Although seems to be mixed feelings on this in the pro tuning circles, from what I have seen.  I personally am looking forward to the day that DJ allows for PV tuning with a computer monitor display. 

[HD/Wrench]

Now for the big inch engines I will say that I feel the PV is lacking and I can prove that. With tons of logs as well the beta test.  But please tell me how many others that want to support the PV to the point to say its better than another can show me where they have tuned several 117 + inch engines and show me the set up. As I went through several maps from dyno jet to get enough fuel in this last bike.

6.2 injectors in it. had the PV almost bottomed out for injector size CI at 143 and still came close to being near top limit. Speaking with PV and getting altered maps to support the larger inch engines and starting with the base from S&S was helpfull but more time in it than I would have like to be investing.  Now with the two other tuners that would not have been the issue. I could have pulled a base map and been done with having to wait for maps.

I do not feel that the PV is not up to par just that there is areas where they need to improve. As more and more use it the base cals should be getting better. Time will tell.. It would not be my first choice. But hell I recall when 117 where being tuned with PCIII tuners and we all got the job done.

[/quote]

I would strongly disagree with this regarding higher output builds, especially considering we are all tuning the same tables within the Delphi ECM, regardless of product. It all comes down to the toolset you are working with and user proficiency with the product. We have tuned many, many, high HP builds with Power Vision including our own 155Hp 117", in fact it was simple to tune, even with 62mm TB, huge injectors, 12:1 comp, and Wood's TW-68 cams @ 720 lift.
[/quote]


I guess then we can agree to disagree hope that does not effect anything. I know that I spoke to you about this very tune. As I knew you had use the tuner for that very build. However it did not work as well with "this" build . I have another that is a low compression 124 that has the PV to tune here once the new oil pan shows up. SO Maybe it will work out better.  I hope so .. Not like I am new to this , we all know there are the oddball set ups out there that just fight for you. 

Hope you do not take offense to that , just what I saw first hand and have back to back testing with other tuners.


I am looking forward to seeing the new updates with dynojet and the PV I feel that will bring this more full circle

[Jamie Long]

On the dyno I have a mount that mounts the PV unit on the keyboard stand, or I use one of our quick release handlebar mounts. I do not personally find it too difficult to view, however it will be nice with the next generation of dyno software when everything ties together with Power Vision, the dyno stack, and the AT modules in one software suite. This will allow you to log and sample all of the ECM/Power Vision channels right into your dyno runs and logs, there will be a "considerable release" at Cincinnati this year. Also note Dynojet also does a weekly training course on Power Vision and dyno tuning, who better to teach tuning strategy than the guys that build the product and the dyno 

As far as dyno tuners as a whole, I think most would be surprised with the number of tuning shops using PV and how its scope extends far beyond the forums. Dynojet has several thousand dyno centers worldwide however only a couple dozen likely frequent the forums, so it is easy to miss the big picture in that regard. In the end I recommend using the product that the person doing the tuning is most comfortable working with, that they can get the best support on for their requirements, and that works best within their resources.

[Jamie Long]

I guess then we can agree to disagree hope that does not effect anything. I know that I spoke to you about this very tune. As I knew you had use the tuner for that very build. However it did not work as well with "this" build . I have another that is a low compression 124 that has the PV to tune here once the new oil pan shows up. SO Maybe it will work out better.  I hope so .. Not like I am new to this , we all know there are the oddball set ups out there that just fight for you. 

Hope you do not take offense to that , just what I saw first hand and have back to back testing with other tuners.

I am looking forward to seeing the new updates with dynojet and the PV I feel that will bring this more full circle

Steve, I do not take offence to comments in this regard. Constructive dialogue helps us move forward

[mayor]

On the dyno I have a mount that mounts the PV unit on the keyboard stand, or I use one of our quick release handlebar mounts. I do not personally find it too difficult to view, however it will be nice with the next generation of dyno software when everything ties together with Power Vision, the dyno stack, and the AT modules in one software suite. This will allow you to log and sample all of the ECM/Power Vision channels right into your dyno runs and logs, there will be a "considerable release" at Cincinnati this year.

Also note Dynojet also does a weekly training course on Power Vision and dyno tuning, who better to teach tuning strategy than the guys that build the product and the dyno 

have they given an indication of upgrade costs yet?  I'm considering buying the Techno Research system, but I'm holding our to see what the cost of the upgrade is with the DJ system.  I really would like to see dual channel afr sampling and reporting abilities in the WinPep system. 

I saw on their website that there are a couple of options available.  One is a 3 day course at their facility, and another is a half day course at your own facility (I would assume through a service like team viewer or go to meeting).   I wouldn't mind doing either, but since I'm not actually in the business I will likely settle for the at your own shop version at some point. 

As far as dyno tuners as a whole, I think most would be surprised with the number of tuning shops using PV and how its scope extends far beyond the forums. Dynojet has several thousand dyno centers worldwide however only a couple dozen likely frequent the forums, so it is easy to miss the big picture in that regard.

I wouldn't be surprised at all.  The PV license program to authorized DJ dealers is extremely reasonable, which opens the door for a more economically challenged customer base. 

In the end I recommend using the product that the person doing the tuning is most comfortable working with, that they can get the best support on for their requirements, and that works best within their resources.

[uwiik]

Hey hey hey!!!! What about meee?? Didn't I made some good points too 
You guys hug    each other there but left me out... That's discrimation!!!

[strokerjlk]

I would strongly disagree with this regarding higher output builds, especially considering we are all tuning the same tables within the Delphi ECM, regardless of product. It all comes down to the toolset you are working with and user proficiency with the product.

dosent matter .

[HD/Wrench]

I would strongly disagree with this regarding higher output builds, especially considering we are all tuning the same tables within the Delphi ECM, regardless of product. It all comes down to the toolset you are working with and user proficiency with the product.

dosent matter .

Ok then do you have a strong base cal for a 11.3 124  66 MM S&S  with 2-1-2 pipe and crusher mufflers. As just got off the phone with PV and they cannot understand it is needing these many changes they have the maps logs and they are a confused.   I can make large changes with zero effect . Not to proud to get a helping hand. 

I started with the base map from S&S it was not even in ball park. 044-124 (91cc) 640 66 RT Final-12T124M5J4AA.pvt

[joe_lyons]

I'm heading to Vegas at the end of October.

[mayor]

I'm heading to Vegas at the end of October.

nobody likes a bragger.   

[hrdtail78]

I would strongly disagree with this regarding higher output builds, especially considering we are all tuning the same tables within the Delphi ECM, regardless of product. It all comes down to the toolset you are working with and user proficiency with the product

This is not true.  The PV does offer more than the HD product.  Like PE mode.  What about IAC Crank to run?  It's in neither of the mentioned tuning devices.

[joe_lyons]

This is true and the capability is there but just not utilized and I wish it was.  But I can't think of another table that the PV does not have that others do?

[Jamie Long]

This is not true.  The PV does offer more than the HD product.  Like PE mode.  What about IAC Crank to run?  It's in neither of the mentioned tuning devices.

It all comes down to the specific tables that are exposed to the user. Essentially, there are tables that control tables that control tables. While there may be a couple tune items not included in PV that are exposed in others it goes both ways as PV has several tables & switches that are not in other products such as the ability to turn adaptive control on/off yet retain closed loop, knock control min/max temp, and closed loop min/max temp for example. Dynojet has also been very receptive to accommodating users that were requesting to have various tables exposed in their maps.