Target tune closer to coming to market?

[hrdtail78]

I disagree.   With what ever controller you use.  The ECM needs to be configured to that controller.  Like you state. They are not all the same.  As for as plugging into the factory harness.  Those are just plugs and can be source many places or one can just pin directly to the ECM plug.  Using the factory harness is just a customer convenience.

OK, who is going to develop the calibrations and do the testing? the consumer? they are also expected to find the plugs/harness to make it work?

You don't need to change the controller output.  Even though there are controllers out there that allow for you to do this, and it is quit easy to do.  You can control the input.  What really is so hard or complicated about it.  So many volts equals this lambda.  This many volts equals this lambda.   About as complicated as an Annie decoder ring.

Again, who's going to test & develop the ECM calibrations for each controller. And as far as the controller itself what does it do when there is a bad connection or the sensor dies? what does the controller do if things go south, the Dynojet firmware was written specifically for Target Tune. 

But like I said. DJ isn't going to open it up to use any other brand of controller, but don't blow smoke and try and make it sound like it is impossible.   Just say they want the controller sale also.

You do realize Target Tune IS a controller right? impossible for Dynojet to make TT work with other controllers? absolutely not as they have already done it for theirs, however it is not realistic to think they would offer Target Tune without it being hardware/software ready and leave it for the consumer to configure rather than a complete plug and play package.

You are simply trying to muddy the water

No, I am trying to clear them up.  I understand it is a controller and that is all it is.  That is why I am stating that you can take a controller like the LM2 that allows you to change and set the output.  With all the other DJ software.  It would work.

The other part of TT.  It is already in there and DJ just figured out how to turn it on.

[Jamie Long]

What would you do with an LM2 and "all the other DJ software" not sure what you are referring to?

Obviously all of the stuff is in the ECM to enable use of widebands, that is what Target Tune does. We just had to figure out how to make it work, thank you for the history lesson.

[whittlebeast]

A good friend and common poster on many of these threads, called me and was questioning the ability of a Target Tune to hold a solid AFR.  I created a field in MLV to verify this question.

Lambda PCT Error   and defined it as

[WBO2 F]/[Set Lambda]

Here is the result of that calc in a trace.  Take note of the scales I used.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/TargetTuneHoldingFuelTargets.png

Andy

[Coyote]

Looks like it holds target pretty damn good.

[Sunny Jim]

Back to basics.
So I have installed the Target Tune and installed the TT specific map( Thank you Jamie). the map is reasonable but I would like to tweak the timing in some areas and adjust the targeted AFRs.
Presumably I make the adjustments Via winPV and reflash the Cal back in to the ECU via the powervision.
Am I to asume that the TT will carry on doing its thing or perhaps I will need to Autotune it?
All thoughts appreciated.

[98fxstc]

Does TT handle spark knock ?

[azlou66]

Does TT handle spark knock ?

TT has made changes to my timing tables albeit minor chages.

[azlou66]

I ran a TT AT session and TT seems to populate cells VERY quickly.

Has anyone else noticed this or is it just my perception?

[Sunny Jim]

So if I adjust the AFR and timing tables a tiny bit, I can expect the CLIs and the AFFs to data log as usual!
Is this the case?

[glens]

I'm seeing references to AFR vs lambda...

The sensors don't know or care the first thing about what the actual AFR is.  All they know is lambda.  The cals using "AFR" do so only for human convenience, such as that might be.  Since we don't usually know stoich for our fuel it's bogus to use "AFR" anyway...

The ECM could derive what the actual AFR is, but I'd bet it's converting to lambda behind the scenes in an "AFR" cal anyway.

[hdmanillac]

The sensor does not know the lambda. It measures the rate of oxygen and returns a corresponding voltage.

The calculator takes into account the voltage and performs processing to inject the amount of fuel that fits. For this it may be using lambda. But that's not even sure.

Lambda is for practical and human comfort.

[Sarhan]

Jamie

Can TT work on open loop cal .. Let's say full time open loop

Thanks

[Ancient]

I ran a TT AT session and TT seems to populate cells VERY quickly.

Has anyone else noticed this or is it just my perception?

Seems the same speed as AT was to me.

[whittlebeast]

The big difference is with Target Tune, you can aim for the AFR you really want all the time.  That is huge

[joe_lyons]

Jamie

Can TT work on open loop cal .. Let's say full time open loop

Thanks

I don't believe there is open loop anymore with TT as it follows the whole AFR table from 12.5-15 if you needed.

[Jamie Long]

Jamie

Can TT work on open loop cal .. Let's say full time open loop

Thanks

Not exactly clear on what you are asking, however Target Tune provides full time closed loop operation with the widebands over the entire calibration, this includes areas which in a standard tune would normally be open loop. 

[Sarhan]

Jamie


Can TT work on open loop cal .. Let's say full time open loop

Thanks

Not exactly clear on what you are asking, however Target Tune provides full time closed loop operation with the widebands over the entire calibration, this includes areas which in a standard tune would normally be open loop.

For example if I set the AFR at 13.5 cross the table and 12.7 from 70 to 100kpa would TT monitoring the requested AFR

[Jamie Long]

Jamie


Can TT work on open loop cal .. Let's say full time open loop

Thanks

Not exactly clear on what you are asking, however Target Tune provides full time closed loop operation with the widebands over the entire calibration, this includes areas which in a standard tune would normally be open loop.

For example if I set the AFR at 13.5 cross the table and 12.7 from 70 to 100kpa would TT monitoring the requested AFR

Yes, TT uses whatever AF target you put in the AFR/Lambda table with short term (real time) and long term (stored) corrections

[Sarhan]

Jamie


Can TT work on open loop cal .. Let's say full time open loop

Thanks

Not exactly clear on what you are asking, however Target Tune provides full time closed loop operation with the widebands over the entire calibration, this includes areas which in a standard tune would normally be open loop.

For example if I set the AFR at 13.5 cross the table and 12.7 from 70 to 100kpa would TT monitoring the requested AFR

Yes, TT uses whatever AF target you put in the AFR/Lambda table with short term (real time) and long term (stored) corrections

Thanks Jamie

[sakbm]

Jamie


Can TT work on open loop cal .. Let's say full time open loop

Thanks

Not exactly clear on what you are asking, however Target Tune provides full time closed loop operation with the widebands over the entire calibration, this includes areas which in a standard tune would normally be open loop.

For example if I set the AFR at 13.5 cross the table and 12.7 from 70 to 100kpa would TT monitoring the requested AFR

Yes, TT uses whatever AF target you put in the AFR/Lambda table with short term (real time) and long term (stored) corrections

Thanks Jamie

Jamie,

does TT change / correct the spark advances?

Geetings from Germany

SAKBM

[glens]

The sensor does not know the lambda. It measures the rate of oxygen and returns a corresponding voltage.

The calculator takes into account the voltage and performs processing to inject the amount of fuel that fits. For this it may be using lambda. But that's not even sure.

Lambda is for practical and human comfort.

All the sensor knows is lambda.  Hence "lambda sensor" (what they actually are properly called).  In actual practice, it would seem, most humans are confused by lambda... so it's rarely a comfort to them.

[whittlebeast]

So Glen, now that you are starting to think thru the limits of the narrow bands, are you going over to the other side to take all the advantages of widebands and start aiming for the AFR you really want to run a motor at?

Andy

[Jamie Long]

does TT change / correct the spark advances?

Geetings from Germany

SAKBM

The TT-Auto Tune application has a utility that allows you to remove timing based on knock activity. We use this as a guideline to determine the areas that need to be attended to, however we generally correct timing based on datalogs. 

[sakbm]

Thank you Jamie.

That means, I should make logs an I see where knocking could be. So I can remove timing?

SAKBM

[tdkkart]

 I installed the TT on our '15 CVO RGU and spent a little bit of time with it over the weekend.
Jamie supplied a starting map that seemed to run pretty good from the start and then I proceeded to make a few tuning runs.
Did a couple runs solo, and then piled the wife on and did some work on the higher load cells(yes, I said that).
I didn't spend a lot of effort stretching out to the outer ranges, just mainly in the normal riding areas for now.

I ended up only doing 5 tuning runs, however from all indications watching the CLIs and fuel trims it's dialed in pretty damn close.
My 5th run only had I think 2 VE cells that changed more than 4%, and most were 2% or less.
Watching the numbers it's not doing much correcting. The AFRs do of course wander around a bit, but it stays in a pretty tight range. The cruise AFR is set at 14.2 on this tune, and I'm only seeing it wander by 2 tenths or less, 14.0-14.2 most of the time.
My Dodge Challenger wanders from 13.0-15.0 continuously while at highway speeds.
Overall it runs really nice right now. We're doing a 1500mi run the end of this week and weekend, it'll be a good test.

Jamie, listen up here......
There needs to be a serious effort put into getting some better/useable documentation put together for these systems now.
The Power Vision has been out for 5 years or better, yet most of the documentation is at least 3-4 years old, if not more.
It's pretty sad that when people ask for more info on the forums most people point them to the TTS manual for clarification.
Some good how-to's with some explanations of what to do with "what if I see this", and "what do I do when this happens", and just some basic theory of operation and tuning, what to look for when putting together a good tune etc.