Target tune closer to coming to market?

[Mirrmu]

plus the 2 times the tuner couldn't get things right

[FLTRI]

plus the 2 times the tuner couldn't get things right

But you have auto-tuners!! Why would you need someone else (tuners) involved?
Just need to install and ride, right?
Bob

[GregOn2Wheels]

[/quote]
This sounds like you purchased a PV tuner to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the AT100 kit to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the target tune to get your bike tuned in...and now you got your bike tuned in.
Have you added up the $$ and time invested in getting your bike tuned in? Then again, maybe you don't want to know.
Bob
[/quote]
I get your point Bob, but as has been said here many times before, there are so few truly competent tuners out there that spending a grand for an auto-tune system that works is the best option for many if not most Harley owners.

[glens]

Not everyone's keen on running the ECM in engineering mode and stashing another controller somewhere on the bike in order to do so.

[whittlebeast]

Glen, what's the downside to running engineering mode?  Running the stock o2s on a motor that prefers to run richer than 14.7 has lots of down sides.

[Teardrop]

Right after I purchased the PV my job took me to Colorado where I was able to get it tuned in enough to run good. It was when we moved back to Mesa AZ and the heat is where I started having issues and yes the tuner couldn't get it right. The AT100 got me close and now the target tune has my bike running the best it ever has.

[Onthefence]

Not everyone's keen on running the ECM in engineering mode and stashing another controller somewhere on the bike in order to do so.

On the face of it, engineering mode sounds like I am getting shafted.   The net result seems to be pretty decent.  By all appearances it holds to the target lambda pretty well.  I think ve tuning with the At-100 was just as good though.

I hear the concerns over engineering mode,  but am wondering what the downside truly is.  My bike is out of warranty,  so I am on my own at this point anyway.   Should I expect this system to leave me on the side of the road someday?

It might be wise to find out what will happen if the box takes a dump.  I just assumed the bike would continue in open loop from there.

[Onthefence]

Is cost really a concern?  $20,000 for a motorcycle regardless of brand isn't money wise to begin with...   

[Ancient]

I consider myself a retard when it comes to tuning but I do like to tinker and do my own work on the bike. I purchased my PV about 6 months after they first came out and loaded the map that was provided. I did nothing to that map for 6 months because I thought my bike ran great. I then messed with the tune and did a bunch of tuning runs using the narrow band sensors and thought my bike ran even better. I then upgraded to a 103 with cams, etc. and at the same time I purchased an AT100. Got a new map from FM and have done countless runs dialing in my bike and again I thought my bike ran great. Last week I installed the Target Tune module, loaded the map and took it for a 100 mile ride. My bike has never ran so good. The motor just seems happy no matter how I ride it. I think Dyno Jet hit this one out of the ball park when they came out with target tune. It was worth every penny. Oh and I didn't mention it but after going to a 103 w/cams I had it dynode twice and the tuner could never get the ping eliminated totally so I always went back to the map FM provided. My bike is a 2010 FLHTCU.

This sounds like you purchased a PV tuner to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the AT100 kit to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the target tune to get your bike tuned in...and now you got your bike tuned in.
Have you added up the $$ and time invested in getting your bike tuned in? Then again, maybe you don't want to know.
Bob

Ok. Say a person bought the PV and did the NB AT sessions and was happy. 6 mo. later he changed exhaust systems and bought the AT-100 then did some WB tuning and was happy. Then a year later he changed cams and bought the TT and installed it and was happy. 

Did the PV, AT-100, and TT cost him more than 3 tuning sessions with a good tuning shop?

[rbabos]

I consider myself a retard when it comes to tuning but I do like to tinker and do my own work on the bike. I purchased my PV about 6 months after they first came out and loaded the map that was provided. I did nothing to that map for 6 months because I thought my bike ran great. I then messed with the tune and did a bunch of tuning runs using the narrow band sensors and thought my bike ran even better. I then upgraded to a 103 with cams, etc. and at the same time I purchased an AT100. Got a new map from FM and have done countless runs dialing in my bike and again I thought my bike ran great. Last week I installed the Target Tune module, loaded the map and took it for a 100 mile ride. My bike has never ran so good. The motor just seems happy no matter how I ride it. I think Dyno Jet hit this one out of the ball park when they came out with target tune. It was worth every penny. Oh and I didn't mention it but after going to a 103 w/cams I had it dynode twice and the tuner could never get the ping eliminated totally so I always went back to the map FM provided. My bike is a 2010 FLHTCU.

This sounds like you purchased a PV tuner to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the AT100 kit to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the target tune to get your bike tuned in...and now you got your bike tuned in.
Have you added up the $$ and time invested in getting your bike tuned in? Then again, maybe you don't want to know.
Bob

Ok. Say a person bought the PV and did the NB AT sessions and was happy. 6 mo. later he changed exhaust systems and bought the AT-100 then did some WB tuning and was happy. Then a year later he changed cams and bought the TT and installed it and was happy. 

Did the PV, AT-100, and TT cost him more than 3 tuning sessions with a good tuning shop?

Excellent point.
Ron

[q1svt]

I consider myself a retard when it comes to tuning but I do like to tinker and do my own work on the bike. I purchased my PV about 6 months after they first came out and loaded the map that was provided. I did nothing to that map for 6 months because I thought my bike ran great. I then messed with the tune and did a bunch of tuning runs using the narrow band sensors and thought my bike ran even better. I then upgraded to a 103 with cams, etc. and at the same time I purchased an AT100. Got a new map from FM and have done countless runs dialing in my bike and again I thought my bike ran great. Last week I installed the Target Tune module, loaded the map and took it for a 100 mile ride. My bike has never ran so good. The motor just seems happy no matter how I ride it. I think Dyno Jet hit this one out of the ball park when they came out with target tune. It was worth every penny. Oh and I didn't mention it but after going to a 103 w/cams I had it dynode twice and the tuner could never get the ping eliminated totally so I always went back to the map FM provided. My bike is a 2010 FLHTCU.

This sounds like you purchased a PV tuner to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the AT100 kit to get your bike tuned in...then purchased the target tune to get your bike tuned in...and now you got your bike tuned in.
Have you added up the $$ and time invested in getting your bike tuned in? Then again, maybe you don't want to know.
Bob

Ok. Say a person bought the PV and did the NB AT sessions and was happy. 6 mo. later he changed exhaust systems and bought the AT-100 then did some WB tuning and was happy. Then a year later he changed cams and bought the TT and installed it and was happy. 

Did the PV, AT-100, and TT cost him more than 3 tuning sessions with a good tuning shop?

I would reword it a little since the PV flash tuner was required either way:

Did the AT-100 & TT cost him more compared to 3 tuning sessions? 
$600.00 (WBO2's are reusable between AT & TT) $450.00 verses $1500.00   [I don't think so]

[whittlebeast]

Ron, just think, he may never need to go to a tuner again.  No matter what he changes.  And now he can help all his friends tunexpected their bikes.  Sounds like a  great tradeoff to me.

[FLTRI]

Ron, just think, he may never need to go to a tuner again.  No matter what he changes.  And now he can help all his friends tunexpected their bikes.  Sounds like a  great tradeoff to me.

Good point Andy. That said, some folks like to actually ride their bikes. Not everyone lives to tune.
Have fun tuning,
Bob

[GregOn2Wheels]

With its ability to tune to lambda values set in the AFR map, PV + TT is DJ's best tuning device yet IMO and if that's all there was to it, that would be enough for me.  But it's more than "just a tuner".  It also allows the ECM to use wide band sensors in closed loop mode which for me has been a nice improvement over PV + AT tunes running in open loop.   Narrow band closed loop came about for one reason and one reason only - to reduce emissions.  Across-the-board closed loop with wide bands is an altogether different animal that delivers smooth and responsive operation and does it consistently.  That's what I've seen so far. (nearly 3,000 miles)

[Karl H.]

...Across-the-board closed loop with wide bands is an altogether different animal that delivers smooth and responsive operation and does it consistently...

Wouldn't your bike run the same with an autotuned but rich open loop map? What AFR are you running with your TT? What's your mileage?

Karl

[GregOn2Wheels]

...Across-the-board closed loop with wide bands is an altogether different animal that delivers smooth and responsive operation and does it consistently...

Wouldn't your bike run the same with an autotuned but rich open loop map? What AFR are you running with your TT? What's your mileage?

Karl

No it would not run the same with an open loop map - I know this because I ran it that way for almost a year. An open loop map can't compensate for variables like gas quality from tank-to-tank. One of the nice features of TT is that the AFR is whatever you set it to in your fuel map and it's in closed loop the entire time.  Here's mine and I average about 38 mpg (the best milage its ever gotten):


[attach=0]

[Karl H.]

The 14.2 area is the main cruising range and could easily be controlled by narrow bands. Where do you experince the "smooth and responsive"? Is it outside this area of operation?

Karl

[rbabos]

...Across-the-board closed loop with wide bands is an altogether different animal that delivers smooth and responsive operation and does it consistently...

Wouldn't your bike run the same with an autotuned but rich open loop map? What AFR are you running with your TT? What's your mileage?

Karl

No it would not run the same with an open loop map - I know this because I ran it that way for almost a year. An open loop map can't compensate for variables like gas quality from tank-to-tank. One of the nice features of TT is that the AFR is whatever you set it to in your fuel map and it's in closed loop the entire time.  Here's mine and I average about 38 mpg (the best milage its ever gotten):


[attach=0]

14.5 in the cruise ranges should get you into the low to mid 40s. Just saying.
Ron

[whittlebeast]

14.2 compared to 14.5 is a 2 pct difference.

[GregOn2Wheels]

14.5 in the cruise ranges should get you into the low to mid 40s. Just saying.
Ron

Yeah I've heard that myth before Ron but with E10 combined with a need for speed I think I'm more likely to see a unicorn.  I could bump the cruise range up to 14.4 or 14.6 if I wanted better mileage, but the bike seems happier (smoother) at 14.2.

[hrdtail78]

...Across-the-board closed loop with wide bands is an altogether different animal that delivers smooth and responsive operation and does it consistently...

Wouldn't your bike run the same with an autotuned but rich open loop map? What AFR are you running with your TT? What's your mileage?

Karl

No it would not run the same with an open loop map - I know this because I ran it that way for almost a year. An open loop map can't compensate for variables like gas quality from tank-to-tank. One of the nice features of TT is that the AFR is whatever you set it to in your fuel map and it's in closed loop the entire time.  Here's mine and I average about 38 mpg (the best milage its ever gotten):


[attach=0]

Can you give the details of your build?

[GregOn2Wheels]

Can you give the details of your build?


It's just a basic stage 2, 15 FLHTK with a Jackpot 2-1-2 SS headpipe, Jackpot 4" Dyno-tuned mufflers and Andrews 57H cams.

[GregOn2Wheels]

The 14.2 area is the main cruising range and could easily be controlled by narrow bands. Where do you experince the "smooth and responsive"? Is it outside this area of operation?

Karl

Its smoother inside and out of the cruise range and with my headpipe and mufflers (YMWV), the narrow bands do not perform as well as the wide bands even in the cruise range because of where the narrow bands are located.  Look I never said or implied that PW+TT is the ultimate tuning solution for everybody.  I've only said that for me and my bike, it works great.

[Karl H.]

What I don't understand is why an engine should run smoother and more responsive with lambda control than just in open loop (privided it's tuned well, it runs in a rich mode and the gas is o.k.). My engine runs with plain AFR 13,2 in open loop and is very smooth and responsive.

Karl

[hrdtail78]

What's a matter with the jackpot bung location?