Adding a cam to a 2010 96" with headwork vs bolt in cam in a 2013 103

[Adam76]

Hey guys,
Looking at two different purchase options both Fatboys, with the intern tion of fitting some healthy cams... probably Andrews 54h  or fueling reaper 574s or similar.

1. 96" 2010 cheaper to buy
2. 103" 2013 more expensive to buy

Would I be better in the end putting money into headwork and cams on a 96" motor........
Or spending the money getting the bike with the 103 factory motor and doing just bolt in cams?

If 96" +  headwork is your choice, what work needs to be done without going to crazy?

Thanks very much for any advice.

[kd]

A bored 96" to 103 is a set of pistons / rings and bore job more than the base price.  Will that still be cheaper than the 103 cost?  Get the heads cleaned up while they are off and cams to support your riding style.  You' Have a fresh engine and get to check the crank and cam chest.

[sfmichael]

what the price difference?

I'd also consider miles, year, and condition

It's very easy to make a 96'' in to a 103" as already stated

[Adam76]

A bored 96" to 103 is a set of pistons / rings and bore job more than the base price.  Will that still be cheaper than the 103 cost?  Get the heads cleaned up while they are off and cams to support your riding style.  You' Have a fresh engine and get to check the crank and cam chest.

Thanks,  i think you're saying bore the 96 to 103  and do headwork then yes that would definitely be the compete package, fresh engine etc....  but that's going to push my budget for sure. 

[Adam76]

what the price difference?

I'd also consider miles, year, and condition

It's very easy to make a 96'' in to a 103" as already stated

Yes, condition is about the same,  millage is the same,  just  3 - 4 years older and has the 96 motor.

If you're suggesting boring 96 - 103  are you including/suggesting headwork as well? 
I guess I could go 96 - 103 with some minor headwork -  just not sure the budget allows. Then I  have a much stronger engine than a stock late model 103 with bolt in cams?

[sfmichael]

I'm a huge proponent of headwork but if the is budget is tight, I'd spend that money elsewhere

both of the cams you listed will be lazy in an otherwise stock engine

get the bigger engine and put some Andrews 48's in there

[sfmichael]

not much stronger - just equal to

more cubes = more power

easy enough to bore the 96 cylinders and buy some inexpensive 103 pistons

but less work is buying the 103 bike and installing the cams of your choice

how much more $$$ is the 103 bike?

[Adam76]

I'm a huge proponent of headwork but if the is budget is tight, I'd spend that money elsewhere

both of the cams you listed will be lazy in an otherwise stock engine

get the bigger engine and put some Andrews 48's in there

I agree with the laziness of the cams in a stock motor.

The whole point of the exercise was to go with the cam I've chosen eg Andrews 54  /  s+s 585  and make the changes need to make the cam work.

What I think you're saying is that I'm going to need to bore to 103, plus headwork to get the cam happy,  right?

[Adam76]

not much stronger - just equal to

more cubes = more power

easy enough to bore the 96 cylinders and buy some inexpensive 103 pistons

but less work is buying the 103 bike and installing the cams of your choice

how much more $$$ is the 103 bike?

In Aussie dollars it doesn't relate,  so there's a 2 - 3K price difference,  but it would possibly cost me 2K to bore it out and get the heads done. 
Hope that makes sense.

I think your last post mentioned I might be better off must getting the 103 and doing bolt in cams with a good tune and call it a day....

Thanks again for all the advice.

[sfmichael]

I have a 103 with Andrews 54's and it runs very well. I advanced my cams 4 degrees and the bike is very responsive

the tune is crucial on any motor combination - even a stock bike benefits greatly from a good tune

[1FSTRK]

This one is still running with no regrets.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=56832.msg601271#msg601271

On the other hand this is a nice stage two.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=87108.msg988534#msg988534

[rigidthumper]

There's other things of value with the factory 103 besides the bigger bore, like  Automatic Compression Releases, better compensater, better clutch spring, and resale value. I'd do the 13 with new inner cam bearings, and cam would depend on where you spend 90% of your riding time. If you're an idle to 4500 like most, then a CR570 or TTS100 would be good. If you are a 2K-5500, then a 54 or S&S MR103, maybe even an HQ525.
Always include the price of a tune/tuner with the budget, so you receive full benefit from the build.

[bigfoot5x]

I have not seen it mentioned but the Andrews 57 cams are almost identical to the 54's. The difference is a slight change in the timing to work better with the stock compression. I had a 96" engine that was bored to 103" with Andrews 54's, but I did have higher compression with the new pistons. Then I traded that bike for a new 103" bike. I put the 57's into the stock 103. Both engines were tuned and if there is a difference is HP, it is not noticeable. So I would vote for the newer 103" bike and just change the cams.

[Hossamania]

I would go for the 103.

[Adam76]

This one is still running with no regrets.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=56832.msg601271#msg601271

On the other hand this is a nice stage two.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=87108.msg988534#msg988534

Thanks for posting those two great examples... can't go wrong with either of those options for sure.  👍👍

[Adam76]

This one is still running with no regrets.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=56832.msg601271#msg601271

On the other hand this is a nice stage two.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=87108.msg988534#msg988534

This is what ideally I'm looking for,  something that pulls hard and doesn't fall off at 4500. This combo looks great,  thanks for posting it. 

[1FSTRK]

There are many ways to get to your goals, it will really come down to what bikes are available to you to start with and then budget.

Do not over look Robin's post (reply #11), The later factory 103ci bikes have many upgrades already, the better comp sprocket, ACR's, ECM strategy, and heated O2 sensors just to name a few things. Those things all make a bigger difference once you start make power upgrades.

[PoorUB]

103" and cams here.

I played with the 96" a bit, and tossed in a 103" kit before I was happy.

[Ohio HD]

There's other things of value with the factory 103 besides the bigger bore, like  Automatic Compression Releases, better compensater, better clutch spring, and resale value. I'd do the 13 with new inner cam bearings, and cam would depend on where you spend 90% of your riding time. If you're an idle to 4500 like most, then a CR570 or TTS100 would be good. If you are a 2K-5500, then a 54 or S&S MR103, maybe even an HQ525.
Always include the price of a tune/tuner with the budget, so you receive full benefit from the build.

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the most solid advice IMHO

[Adam76]

There are many ways to get to your goals, it will really come down to what bikes are available to you to start with and then budget.

Do not over look Robin's post (reply #11), The later factory 103ci bikes have many upgrades already, the better comp sprocket, ACR's, ECM strategy, and heated O2 sensors just to name a few things. Those things all make a bigger difference once you start make power upgrades.

👍👍 good point. I'll sick to the 103. Thanks

[Adam76]

There's other things of value with the factory 103 besides the bigger bore, like  Automatic Compression Releases, better compensater, better clutch spring, and resale value. I'd do the 13 with new inner cam bearings, and cam would depend on where you spend 90% of your riding time. If you're an idle to 4500 like most, then a CR570 or TTS100 would be good. If you are a 2K-5500, then a 54 or S&S MR103, maybe even an HQ525.
Always include the price of a tune/tuner with the budget, so you receive full benefit from the build.

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the most solid advice IMHO

Yes agreed,  advice I have definitely taken on.
Thanks for everyone's input,  looks like I have a plan now to get started on.

[sportbikeco]

I did a 96 and punched it to 107, runs real nice with stock heads.

Doing it again i'd like to have ACR as its not easy starting with my cam selection in 200 ccp range but never left me stranded. 

But the cost difference between say a 2008 96" bike and 2013 103" bike can be very significant and the older 96 bikes can be found for extremely compelling prices these days.

[Tail Ridr]

This one is still running with no regrets.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=56832.msg601271#msg601271

What would be expected of this build with a 2-1-2 header and a decent set of slip-ons that would compliment this build and at a 10.4:1CR, putting the ccp closer to 200, depending on elevation...

[1FSTRK]

This one is still running with no regrets.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=56832.msg601271#msg601271

What would be expected of this build with a 2-1-2 header and a decent set of slip-ons that would compliment this build and at a 10.4:1CR, putting the ccp closer to 200, depending on elevation...

With exhaust and compression as you describe the low end tq would come up so it would climb right from the hit too 3500 rpm. It would also raise the above 5000 curve over 100hp.

One thing to note is taking the 96" engines to 103" with a ccp above 185 ci it is highly recommended to add ACR's to the build. Easy to do and not too much money if you don't wait and do it as an after though when replacing batteries, starter drives and ring gears.

[PoorUB]

If you want to add compression releases pick up a used set of 103" heads and sell your 96" heads.