So why no liquid cooling on the 117 CVO Street Glide?

[spook]

Just wondering why HD eliminated liquid cooling from this bike? Saves a buck? Room for speakers?  What's your thoughts? Thanks.

[Princess Butt]

That's unexpected.

They had water heads on the 2017.

Reading the specs on the 2018, it doesn't mention "Twin-cooled".

Anyone?

[K4FXD]

My guess is because of all the water pump failures.

We won't see water cooling until it is 100% water cooled. IMO

[justaguy]

Added speakers to the lowers

[spook]

So HD made a decision to sacrifice mechanical advantage for a couple of bloody speakers?  Seriously?  Since I have had my 17 CVO I can truthfully say I have not listened to the audio system even once.  Just not important to me.  And don't get me started on the folks who insist on having their radio blaring AC/DC while puttering through town or campground....ugh.  Ok done with the rant.  Carry on....

[BVHOG]

 hmmmm, speakers mounted in a position so that I can hear my AC/DC without cranking it all the way vs a cooling system that works marginally at best and has a ton of extra parts to fail?   I'll take the speakers every time.

[spook]

Ok then...enjoy your music.

[sfmichael]

hmmmm, speakers mounted in a position so that I can hear my AC/DC without cranking it all the way vs a cooling system that works marginally at best and has a ton of extra parts to fail?   I'll take the speakers every time.

  I understand the benefits of water cooling but a big part of the attraction of HD to me is the simplicity of air cooling. Some would argue computer control and fuel injection are not simple but that stuff's been around for 15+ years and is pretty bullet-proof and it's here to stay.

But I'll pass on the H20...

[14GuineaPig]

Maybe I missed it, but I have not read of any liquid cooling system problems with the twin cooled M-8 engines for 2017.  The M-8 does use a new water pump and the thermostat has been eliminated.  AFAIK the water pump is controlled by the ECM and doesn't run constantly like the 2014-16 models.
So to get back to the question of why no liquid cooling on the 2018 CVO 117 SG, IDK.  Maybe HD conducted another survey of CVO SG owners who decided the lowers were best used to house speakers.   

[Sarhan]

it's kind of cutting cost at the same time unexpected move affect CVO line as we thought the 114ci will stay for a while

IMO the cooling system was not a big advantage, do MOCO reduce the heat by 50 percent I don't think so, if it was a full engine cooling system then yes I will agree it's a big loss

[calif phil]

I have a friend in FL who is looking to trade his '16 CVO in on the 2018 CVO just for the fact that it is not water cooled.   He hates the fact that he can't remove the lowers on the '16.    I would feel the same way.   

[Durwood]

I have a friend in FL who is looking to trade his '16 CVO in on the 2018 CVO just for the fact that it is not water cooled.   He hates the fact that he can't remove the lowers on the '16.    I would feel the same way.

Amen and pass the biscuits!! That is the main reason why I bought a RGS instead of a RGU. Removing the lowers reduces the rear head temp by 50* from the back to back testing that I have done.

[grecocjg]

They are replacing the water with oil to cool the exhaust ports like on all the other M8's

[thumper 823]

hmmmm, speakers mounted in a position so that I can hear my AC/DC without cranking it all the way vs a cooling system that works marginally at best and has a ton of extra parts to fail?   I'll take the speakers every time.

Too be entirely correct water cooling is not a mechanical advantage, but rather parasitical.
Any cooling added is proof of the imperfection of said IC engine.
Harley is unable to make one HP from one cubic inch .
They choose to leave it on the table and sell you after market parts.
Water cooling, HP. efficiency =oxymooronic.

[SLAATY]

I have a friend in FL who is looking to trade his '16 CVO in on the 2018 CVO just for the fact that it is not water cooled.   He hates the fact that he can't remove the lowers on the '16.    I would feel the same way.

Amen and pass the biscuits!! That is the main reason why I bought a RGS instead of a RGU. Removing the lowers reduces the rear head temp by 50* from the back to back testing that I have done.

Yup yup. Same reason the Ultra Limited got swapped out. I'm back to the Road King - lighter, never listened to the radio, and the lowers are gone. The batwing was too much for me to muscle around. I've had FLHRs for years and wanted to try out the 'lap of luxury'. No thanks.

[rbabos]

hmmmm, speakers mounted in a position so that I can hear my AC/DC without cranking it all the way vs a cooling system that works marginally at best and has a ton of extra parts to fail?   I'll take the speakers every time.

Too be entirely correct water cooling is not a mechanical advantage, but rather parasitical.
Any cooling added is proof of the imperfection of said IC engine.
Harley is unable to make one HP from one cubic inch .
They choose to leave it on the table and sell you after market parts.
Water cooling, HP. efficiency =oxymooronic.

I guess you missed the v rod then. 76ci, 125 at crank and full liquid cooled.
Ron

[PoorUB]

Probably the best engine HAD ever built and they stopped building them!

[thumper 823]

hmmmm, speakers mounted in a position so that I can hear my AC/DC without cranking it all the way vs a cooling system that works marginally at best and has a ton of extra parts to fail?   I'll take the speakers every time.

Too be entirely correct water cooling is not a mechanical advantage, but rather parasitical.
Any cooling added is proof of the imperfection of said IC engine.
Harley is unable to make one HP from one cubic inch .
They choose to leave it on the table and sell you after market parts.
Water cooling, HP. efficiency =oxymooronic.

I guess you missed the v rod then. 76ci, 125 at crank and full liquid cooled.
Ron

Context, context, -we were talking about the V twinn.
And it all still applies -except when Porsche did the Harley "V Rod" for them, the  "VE" was accounted for parasitic losses.
No cooling metric will ever be called a mechanical advantage.
In the end, everything is air cooled.
A better engine does not need the loss.

[rbabos]

Probably the best engine HAD ever built and they stopped building them!

According to some on 1130cc.com it was dropped due to likely not passing EU regs this year. Overseas was the biggest market for this bike.  Second reason stated it was dropped because it made the rest of the line look bad from a performance and engineering standpoint. I don't know about the first part.
Ron

[boooby1744]

Probably the best engine HAD ever built and they stopped building them!

According to some on 1130cc.com it was dropped due to likely not passing EU regs this year. Overseas was the biggest market for this bike.  Second reason stated it was dropped because it made the rest of the line look bad from a performance and engineering standpoint. I don't know about the first part.
Ron

After all these years,now people care that the vr would make the rest of the line look bad? I always thought the opposite.

[tomcat64]

Probably the best engine HAD ever built and they stopped building them!

100% agree and I own a 2003 V-Rod, that being said,  we couldn't sell them to save our lives,, my last 2 finally sold after we dropped them to $1,000 below invoice,,

[thumper 823]

Way off topic here-
But Harley has screwed itself with type casting itself.
They keep trying to sell the V twin configuration, with out looking for a new customer base.
  To keep a market share they will either HAVE to become something else as us old guys die off or they will too.

[PoorUB]

Way off topic here-
But Harley has screwed itself with type casting itself.
They keep trying to sell the V twin configuration, with out looking for a new customer base.
  To keep a market share they will either HAVE to become something else as us old guys die off or they will too.

I disagree to a point. I don't think Harley knows who the new customer base is, I don't think anyone knows!

The millennials don't want to ride a big heavy cruiser or touring bike. They would be happy with a 200cc throw away import, way out of Harley's demographic. I believe motorcycle sales are going to continue to drop over the next years or decades and companies like Harley are a dinosaur unless they can adapt and evolve into manufacturing some other form of transportation, maybe a serious electric powered commuter motorcycle that doesn't sell for $20k.

[thumper 823]

LOL
I don't think you disagreed at all.
If HD does not figure out who and how to sell to....
Then they are done.
Simple.

[hd06myway]

my guess it lowers aren't usually put on the SG... it's a sporty FLH... no lowers, no need... between the air and the oil cooling... the lowers take away from the original looks of the bike.  My bad.... just realized the CVO SG does have lowers.... oh well back to the question "why doesn't the 2018....?" 

[Hossamania]

No coolers so you can put those vinyl covers on the front engine guard when it gets cold...

[sfmichael]

Probably the best engine HAD ever built and they stopped building them!

100% agree and I own a 2003 V-Rod, that being said,  we couldn't sell them to save our lives,, my last 2 finally sold after we dropped them to $1,000 below invoice,,

here's the bottom line why the V-Rod is gone....a great motor in a bike that not enough people liked

the motor may come back in some other machine but HD gave the Vrod plenty of time to catch on...cut your losses

As for HD not knowing who their demographic is...Really? 
I think they know exactly who their demographic is and they've been trying to lure younger buyers for years...not as successfully as they would like...but definitely trying - while still trying to please the over 40 crowd.

You can't be serious...

[PoorUB]

As for HD not knowing who their demographic is...Really? 
I think they know exactly who their demographic is and they've been trying to lure younger buyers for years...not as successfully as they would like...but definitely trying - while still trying to please the over 40 crowd.

You can't be serious...

The point you miss is the over 40 demographic is getting older (last check HD's average buyer was 47 years old and getting older.), and in a few years will be gone. The younger generations are not very interested in motorcycles. The millennials are not buying motorcycles in any great numbers and chances are they will not be buying them when they turn 40. Harley knows who is buying today, what they don't know is who will be buying in ten+ years. Harley needs to diversify as the existing market is getting smaller or continue to produce less units.

[Hossamania]

Correct on producing less motorcycles. Ideally, you would want to make one less than you can actually sell.