Marbles in the heads

[Jim Bronson]

I'm posting this on behalf of a riding buddy. He says that he often hears noise coming out of the heads of his 2017 RK. It sounds like a bag of marbles when you shake them up. I've never heard it, but he's a reliable guy, so I have no doubt that he's hearing it.

If he takes it to the dealer, I'm sure it won't be present while their techs are listening for it. It seems that's just the nature of odd noises. Or if they do hear it, they'll just say "they all do it".

Anyone hear this kind of noise coming out of the rocker cover area on an M8?

Thanks.

[Hossamania]

Sounds like the classic definition of pre-detonation. The anti-knock sensor isn't working, or he's running poor fuel.

[Jim Bronson]

Thanks. He runs only premium Chevron or Mobil, so he's using good gas. I'll have him mention the anti-knock sensor to the dealer.

[Hossamania]

I should have asked, does this happen mostly under acceleration, or all the time, even idling and coasting?

[rbabos]

Does sound like light detonation based on description. Needs to be looked into as it's very destructive to pistons and rod bearings . If it is detonation the dealer should be able to repeat it with load,  based on gear selection and rpms.
Ron

[C#]

I'm posting this on behalf of a riding buddy. He says that he often hears noise coming out of the heads of his 2017 RK. It sounds like a bag of marbles when you shake them up. I've never heard it, but he's a reliable guy, so I have no doubt that he's hearing it.

If he takes it to the dealer, I'm sure it won't be present while their techs are listening for it. It seems that's just the nature of odd noises. Or if they do hear it, they'll just say "they all do it".

Anyone hear this kind of noise coming out of the rocker cover area on an M8?

Thanks.

Some have covered parts of this:

Is the bike performance modified (cams, exhaust)?
Does it have an aftermarket ECM?
Does it happen going up a hill in an upper range gear only?
How many miles on the bike?
Does it do it hot or cold or both?
What do the spark plugs look like?

[Jim Bronson]

More info:

It has HD Street Cannon slip-ons and SE air cleaner with the HD download (not dyno tuned)
It also has a SE "torque cam", but I don't know the part #.
It is running the stock ECM
I'm not sure of the running conditions under which he hears it, but I will ask him.
He is a local rider, so it has low mileage (I'd guess 6-7 thousand)
He hasn't pulled the plugs. It is my understanding that the top plugs on an M8 aren't easy to access.

I'll probably ride with him this week, so I'll listen to it then and ask him about the running conditions. He's a really good guy, so I'd like to help him all I can.

Meanwhile, many thanks. I (we) appreciate any guidance.

[Hossamania]

Does he lug the motor on a regular basis?
My guess is that the bike will need a proper tune. The dealer will probably tell him that he doesn't, that the download is good enough.

[Jim Bronson]

Does he lug the motor on a regular basis?
My guess is that the bike will need a proper tune. The dealer will probably tell him that he doesn't, that the download is good enough.

I think he does lug it a bit sometimes. I do know he uses 6th sometimes when I'm in 4th or 5th (he mentioned it to me some time ago). I'm assuming he downshifts in twisties, as I rarely see his brake lights when we're in the mountains.

For some reason, he is an anti-dyno guy, so that won't happen.

[rbabos]

Does he lug the motor on a regular basis?
My guess is that the bike will need a proper tune. The dealer will probably tell him that he doesn't, that the download is good enough.

I think he does lug it a bit sometimes. wI do know he uses 6th sometimes hen I'm in 4th or 5th (he mentioned it to me some time ago). I'm assuming he downshifts in twisties, as I rarely see his brake lights when we're in the mountains.

For some reason, he is an anti-dyno guy, so that won't happen.

Sounds like he's in too tall a gear when he feeds the power in. A good tune will support this type of riding, stock, not so much. Riding habit change will likely solve it.
Ron

[tomcat64]

with the cam change he really should tune the bike,, just sayin..

[Jim Bronson]

Every now and then I mention getting it tuned, but he's afraid of warranty issues. We have an outstanding tuner in the area who recently tuned my RK with the "tire shredder" kit, and I'm very pleased with it. So tuning it is out of the question. I just hope he doesn't damage the engine by riding it with this noise. I'll mention the possibility of detonation, and urge him to have the dealer check it out. 

[Hossamania]

He will damage it riding it with that noise.
Without the tune, it might last through the warranty period, then when it craps out, it will be on him to pay for the repair.

[Jim Bronson]

Good point. I'll have a listen later in the week, and strongly advise him to have it looked at. Thanks.

[blacktop37]

I have a 2017 Road King. Mine sounds like marbles. I have eight valves going extremely fast, I am 100% convinced that that noise is normal. I cannot imagine hearing no noise at all when many have said there's are completely quiet. there is a lot going on on up in the top end with all those valves. Mine is completely stock so I can't attest to whether his tune or changes have done anything.

[Hossamania]

As was mentioned earlier, this bike has a "torque" cam installed. That changes things from the normal "they all do that" situation.

[Jim Bronson]

I talked with my buddy this evening. He clarified some things. It only does it right after hot starts. Once he gets on the road, it settles down and stops doing it. He also said it didn't do it when it was new, but started after a few thousand miles. He dropped by the dealership today and talked with a tech about it, and of course it didn't have the noise while he was there. That doesn't sound like detonation, and he just plans to ride it until something changes. For sure the dealer wouldn't tear into it unless they felt it was something serious. Stay tuned.

[hd06]

 Sounds like a bunch of hearsay,   

[rbabos]

I talked with my buddy this evening. He clarified some things. It only does it right after hot starts. Once he gets on the road, it settles down and stops doing it. He also said it didn't do it when it was new, but started after a few thousand miles. He dropped by the dealership today and talked with a tech about it, and of course it didn't have the noise while he was there. That doesn't sound like detonation, and he just plans to ride it until something changes. For sure the dealer wouldn't tear into it unless they felt it was something serious. Stay tuned.

Right after hot starts with prior sitting, engine off,  the IAT has been heat soaked and the mixture will be at it's leanest and most prone to pinging under load. Refueling time is long enough to heat soak it but it soaks it's most up to 10 minutes.  Takes about 1 minute of running to cool the sensor down. Does this sound about right? This heat soaked transition area can be skirted around with a decent tune. In a nutshell the tune is a bit lean for the heat soaked sensor.
Ron

[Jim Bronson]

I talked with my buddy this evening. He clarified some things. It only does it right after hot starts. Once he gets on the road, it settles down and stops doing it. He also said it didn't do it when it was new, but started after a few thousand miles. He dropped by the dealership today and talked with a tech about it, and of course it didn't have the noise while he was there. That doesn't sound like detonation, and he just plans to ride it until something changes. For sure the dealer wouldn't tear into it unless they felt it was something serious. Stay tuned.

Right after hot starts with prior sitting, engine off,  the IAT has been heat soaked and the mixture will be at it's leanest and most prone to pinging under load. Refueling time is long enough to heat soak it but it soaks it's most up to 10 minutes.  Takes about 1 minute of running to cool the sensor down. Does this sound about right? This heat soaked transition area can be skirted around with a decent tune. In a nutshell the tune is a bit lean for the heat soaked sensor.
Ron

Yes, that's what he's telling me. It's a shame that he refuses to get it tuned, especially since he has a performance cam. My '15 RK runs so much cooler after the tune.

[HV]

The HD Down Loads are worthless .......the SE Pro Tuners are just as bad ...all they do is load the POS Factory Down Loads in the ECM instead of the Digital Tech Doing it ....