Zippers/Red Shift 468 Cam

[turboprop]

Pretty cool video from Zippers that features my good friend Adam H. Adam is a brilliant mechanical engineer that was a child prodigy (kidding) of legendary engine developer and racer Dick Hilferty (RIP).

Anyways, I know Zippers is not the flavor of the month around here, but this video is somewhat informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-8QOkhxNoM 

[Nastytls]

Interesting video. Those are serious numbers for a cam upgrade. Impressive.

[tommy g]

Refreshing to observe such a sharp and enthusiastic young man.

[DTTJGlide]

The #s for the Zippers cam are nearly identical to Durwood's #s with the CR450 w/D&D Billet Cat, also what Zippers was running on their test. The CR460 produces more TQ down low but runs out a little sooner than the CR450 or the Zippers 468, Durwood felt the added TQ down low made the CR460 a better Stg 2 cam & I would have to agree. Two top companies coming out with very good cam designs, it will be interesting to see if the learning progression will be like it was on the TCs, as it took quite a while for the TC cams to reach the level they are today. I'm very impressed with the #s from these cams, some very talented people out there & probably many more to come.

[1FSTRK]

The #s for the Zippers cam are nearly identical to Durwood's #s with the CR450 w/D&D Billet Cat, also what Zippers was running on their test. The CR460 produces more TQ down low but runs out a little sooner than the CR450 or the Zippers 468, Durwood felt the added TQ down low made the CR460 a better Stg 2 cam & I would have to agree. Two top companies coming out with very good cam designs, it will be interesting to see if the learning progression will be like it was on the TCs, as it took quite a while for the TC cams to reach the level they are today. I'm very impressed with the #s from these cams, some very talented people out there & probably many more to come.

Nice to see some attempt at engineering a bolt in cam for this engine but the cams that work will all end up in about the same place because you can only do so much with the short commings of the head design. The peak intake to exhaust flow ratio is only the begining of what is wrong. As far as the Twin cam goes those heads needed work to but the TW37 was making close to this HP/CI with in 6 months of the Twin Cam engine coming out and custom cams like the CHP44s were over 1 HP/CI bolt in by Oct of 1999. The 4 valve head and particulairly the one HD has given us will have a steep learning curve. (Think Hurricane heads on a Twin cam 103)

[Eccool]

Who makes the CHP44s?

[remington007]

Andrews 44?

[1FSTRK]

Who makes the CHP44s?

Just a custom cam that I know made good power early in the twin cam days.
Many good cams were available shortly after from most cam companies.
This Red shift cam shows promise for what it is designed for but I still wait to see something
exciting from the M-8 over all.

Andrews 44?

Because Andrews grinds many of the private label cams he does not offer those exact grinds in his line up. The TW-44 Andrews was a version of one of the early CHP44 development cams that was a stepping stone to the final product.

[Jeff Myrick]

Just installed the Red Shift 468 in my 18 RGS. Lopey idle, crisp throttle and the exhaust note at heavy throttle is loud and deep. Starts pulling hard just pass the 3k rpm mark. I live in a quiet neighborhood and was being considerate to my neighbors. Will post another video harder on the gas....stay tuned!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV_iF0j1VIA&feature=share

[1FSTRK]

Jeff what tuning device did you use?

[rigidthumper]

FP3 in the video notes.

[Jeff Myrick]

Just installed the Red Shift 468 in my 18 RGS. Lopey idle, crisp throttle and the exhaust note at heavy throttle is loud and deep. Starts pulling hard just pass the 3k rpm mark. I live in a quiet neighborhood and was being considerate to my neighbors. Will post another video harder on the gas....stay tuned!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV_iF0j1VIA&feature=share

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQPQZ7tjQxc&feature=share

[badcooky]

I notice that the damping/smoothing is at 3 on the Zippers vid ,so those figures are quite conservative figures

[1FSTRK]

I notice that the damping/smoothing is at 3 on the Zippers vid ,so those figures are quite conservative figures

It does not work that way but no matter the numbers are good.

[badcooky]

Yea it does work that way..

[Ohio HD]

Smoothings does just as it sounds, it makes the lines have less spikes as the smoothings number increases.

[badcooky]

Yep ,that's why most get good numbers at 5 isn't it ,these guys were at 3.

[1FSTRK]

Yep ,that's why most get good numbers at 5 isn't it ,these guys were at 3.

Ohio is correct, the higher the smoothing number the smoother the line, the lower the smoothing  number the more peaks in the line. The jagged peaks that jump up with a low smooth number give higher readings but are cut off when the smoothing is applied at 5. That is why people use 5 to show the peaks removed and give a better average of what is really going on. As I said numbers and tune here are good enough it is not making much difference, just trying to clear up your confusion.

[badcooky]

Yep that's how it's supposed to work but it doesn't .

[1FSTRK]

In some extreme cases with a bad bounce on the belt or chain, or with a bad tune you could get a particular point to read higher with a lower number but it is not the norm for quality dyno runs.

[HD/Wrench]

Chopped tire can create some issue as well I get them from time to time . Out of balance tire at high speeds can start to bounce on the drum .. The older spoke wheels that are not " true" can do that ..

[BVHOG]

Chopped tire can create some issue as well I get them from time to time . Out of balance tire at high speeds can start to bounce on the drum .. The older spoke wheels that are not " true" can do that ..

Poor ignition timing is another that can cause the spiky graph, a few years ago I bet you remember the old 6 software graphs that a certain shop used to boast about that had as much as a 10 percent increase from the graph spikes with no smoothing applied.  As for the cam in the video it is interesting that they use 470 lift as pretty much everything I have read from those that did flow work said they are done by 450.  That bike on the dyno does sound great.

[HD/Wrench]

Yes I had forgotten and in actual in the winter .. Glad to see that Keith set up some standards for the dyno sheets.. 

[ZippersPerformance.com]

All of our published dyno charts are SAE, smoothing set to #3, along with tire pressure, etc.  We set up this standard years ago so as to keep consistency in our results.  We chose to use 3 to reflect the stability of the tune; looking at the charts above, I never noticed that the peak torque and HP numbers were mildly affected by the smoothing. This was/is not our intention. 

Learn something every day!

[1FSTRK]

All of our published dyno charts are SAE, smoothing set to #3, along with tire pressure, etc.  We set up this standard years ago so as to keep consistency in our results.  We chose to use 3 to reflect the stability of the tune; looking at the charts above, I never noticed that the peak torque and HP numbers were mildly affected by the smoothing. This was/is not our intention. 

Learn something every day!

Hope you did not think I in any way thought the smoothing setting was a ploy. I only pursued the issue to clarification for others. With your level of tune and power smoothing settings would be such a small difference it is within the margin of accuracy of the dyno.
Great cam and post thanks for sharing it here.