Primary Chains - the Good, the Bad, and the Broken

[Ohio HD]

They seem to be very responsive. I received an automated order conformation last night. This morning, just now, received a paid invoice. They said they'll email again with a UPS tracking number when it ships.

[jmorton10]

Just do a Bandit belt drive primary...and all the primary side issues will go away

LOL yeah that works.  I broke a chain during T&T at Atco. I installed this setup & never had another problem........



~John 

[Ohio HD]

I don't know if growing up as a kid your family watched the Ten Commandments every year, mine did, that meant I watched it too. Yul Brynner became one of my favorite actors. I'll use some of a line he used in the movie.

This Tsubaki primary chain, if a myth, bring it to me in a bottle, if it's real, bring it to me in a plain white box.

It's real.


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[crock]

I have always ran Diamond or Timkin on the rear until a couple years ago I ran across a NICHE X-Ring on flea bay in a damaged box for like $30. I now have about 5000 miles (a tire and a half) and other than service(Tire replacement, check wheel bearings,etc) that chain has been maintenance free with no adjusting.

[kouack]

I noticed in the link they do sell a 428-2 84 links chain, does it would fit for a bagger 2013 with a 32 engine sprocket and regular HD tensioner? So you do not have to install a questionable clip on shoe over the original tensioner?

[Ohio HD]

I noticed in the link they do sell a 428-2 84 links chain, does it would fit for a bagger 2013 with a 32 engine sprocket and regular HD tensioner? So you do not have to install a questionable clip on shoe over the original tensioner?

No, it would be too short.  

[Deye76]

Side plates got some beef. 

[Ohio HD]

Side plates got some beef.

Good eye, it feels heavy too. I'll try to remember tomorrow to weight it and a couple others I have here that are also new.

[Ohio HD]

I'll try to add a little tech to the chain talk.
I did weigh the three I have, Tsubaki, RK and Twin Power. They all weigh within 33 grams of each other. So the weight isn't as I thought I felt.

What is a little different is the inner and outer chain plates thicknesses. The Tsubaki has slightly thicker plates. Also notable is the center plates that goes between the two 428 single chains. The Tsubaki is a single piece link, and is 0.096" thick. The other two are two piece, made from two of the inner and outer plate links, and measures 0.112". Although thicker, I'll take the single piece link as I think this will hold up better, as well the inner and outer links are 11% thicker.

I can't easily find the tensile strength of these. That would tell a lot.
The Twin Power is an RK chain I have no doubt. I was told it was made by a popular chain manufacturer in Japan. I hoped it was Tsubaki, but it looks to be RK. They're identical in look and measurements, and weigh within 5 grams.

One thing I'll note that to me give the Tsubaki a nod as far as potentially stronger. When you try to shift the two single chains back and forth. The RK and Twin power seem to have more slop than the Tsubaki has. As well looking at the photos, you can see that the Twin Power chain looks shifted. As well the Tsubaki just feels tighter when you flex the chain as it would go around the sprockets. the other two almost feel like they have some miles on them in comparison.





Tsubaki   RF08B-2 86L-PCE
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RK 428286
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Twin Power (RK)   591204
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[Ohio HD]

Here are the measurements I took.



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[Deye76]

Nice work comparing them for us, Brian. Tsubaki sure does look impressive.

[Ohio HD]

I wish I could find the tensile rating on these. Maybe one day when bored I'll call both companies and find out.

To be fair all three would be outstanding chains in 99.5% of the applications in bikes. the other 0.5% will need the strongest they can get. I think the Tsubaki may have just enough additional mass in the plates to be a better choice for heavy pounding.

[dirt1954]

Are the rollers on the Tsubaki split, or is that an optical illusion? Looks like the Twin Power are solid.

[Ohio HD]

All three of the brands have solid rollers, no splits.

[-deuced-]

The one piece centre link does look stronger. Are the rollers on the tsubaki smoother finish than the others? Are the rollers the same length on all those chains? If so and I add up the plate thicknesses then the tsubaki is also wider. More chance of case contact or does the extra rigidity negate that?

[Ohio HD]

The Tsubaki chain has grease on it so everything looks smooth and shiny. Width I didn't measure. There is no doubt a specification used to keep them as a stated 428x2 series chain. I don't know anywhere a primary chain is close enough to make contact with the inner or outer primary based on slight width changes. 

[-deuced-]

Yeah, you're right. Sorry, don't know what I was thinking.

[dirt1954]

The diamond is back in stock now, but it sounds like the Tsubaki is superior. Any more comparisons-no problems getting from source in UK? Looks like they have 76 link.

[Ohio HD]

They ship better than most US companies. I ordered on the 8th of November, and had it on the 11th of November by UPS.

[dirt1954]

Sounds good, thanks.

[Ohio HD]

To add to this older thread regarding Big Twin primary chains. I decided to go forward with my 49 tooth clutch basket on the new drivetrain, so I needed a new primary chain in 88 links, OEM for my bike is 86 links. I checked Evolution Industries first because they supply the 49 tooth baskets, they have Regina chains (yeay!) in lengths from 74 links to 94 links.

If you need an odd length, I'd look at Evolution Industries to see if they have in stock or can have made what you need.

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[kd]

That's what I've been using and it appears to like being roughed up.   

[98s1lightning]

Cool Interesting thread.

I never seen a primary chain broken in person. I've always stretched em out until they don't adjust properly anymore.
30k on my OEM harley 99' softail 80ci, burnouts yes, powershifting wide open yes, get about 10k out of a rear tire.

Only time I ever heard of one breaking was a Pete hill video he says a nitro bike snapped one And spit it off which hit a bystander in the pits. But that was what 300 plus horsepower maybe 500 plus, I don't know I wasn't there. It wasn't a <150hp street Harley

I bet someone like Greg GMS would have insight on primary chains. He puts record holding power through them. I don't know the guy but seen some of his videos, cool stuff.

[Ohio HD]

You don't need nitro to break a primary chain, you just need a turboprop.   

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,88095.msg1213815.html#msg1213815



And I think Jonny Cash is running a 135" TC.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102936.msg1215186.html#msg1215186

[kd]

Cool Interesting thread.

I never seen a primary chain broken in person. I've always stretched em out until they don't adjust properly anymore.
30k on my OEM harley 99' softail 80ci, burnouts yes, powershifting wide open yes, get about 10k out of a rear tire.

Only time I ever heard of one breaking was a Pete hill video he says a nitro bike snapped one And spit it off which hit a bystander in the pits. But that was what 300 plus horsepower maybe 500 plus, I don't know I wasn't there. It wasn't a <150hp street Harley

I bet someone like Greg GMS would have insight on primary chains. He puts record holding power through them. I don't know the guy but seen some of his videos, cool stuff.

I broke one WFO pounding 3rd gear next to the door of a car I was passing on the Manitoba prairies.  Thank God it was the prairies and not a winding road in the Canadian shield.  The chain primary broke and piled up at the base of the clutch basket and locked the rear wheel instantly. (tin primary on an 86" stroked hot rodded 56 slab-side pan / shovel.)  I managed to drop behind the car without hitting it and took the shoulder, then the shallow drainage ditch, then 150 feet out into the farmers field which thankfully didn't have a fence. Yep, they do break and I am luckily still here to tell ya.