Primary Belt Adjustment

[JW113]

Alrighty, enough with pushing broken motorcycles, time for some tech talk.

My primary belt set up:

1-1/2" 8mm x 132T
41T engine pulley
61T clutch pulley

The belt that came with the bike looked a little words for wear, so does not come as a complete surprise that it broke. I have tried twice to replaced it, while I had the primary apart for other reasons.

First time, tried a BDL 30853 (ST). Was so freakin' tight it would not go on the pulleys. Put the old belt back on.

Second time, tried a BDL 30853 (BE), the 'bull's eye belt'. Is supposed to be a little bigger. After much pushing and swearing, I did manage to get it on the pulleys. After a couple rides, I started to see pools of Redline Shock Proof on the floor under the trans. This belt was still too tight, and pulled on the mainshaft enough to distort the trans seal. So off it came, put old belt back on, leak stopped.

So now here we are, old belt broke, and I have two belts hanging on the wall that won't fit. What are my options?

Buy a complete new belt set up and hope it fits?
Oval out the mount holes in the inner primary to give it some adjustment?
.....
Or, to hell with it all, & round up a chain set up?

Any ideas are certainly welcome!

-JW

[JW113]

Speaking of chain set up, what the hell kind of compensator is this???

[attach=0]
[attach=1]

thanks,
JW

[76shuvlinoff]

Personally I'd go quality chain with a solid front sprocket.  Been running my S&S 93 w/o a comp for almost 30K miles now. no issues yet.

Or if Supermax Products are still in business ... they were supposed to be nearly bulletproof. Phil Ross used to be a member here before he passed.

http://supermax.net/

[HotRodShovel]

Ive got a Tech Cycles drive system on my Shovel and its great.   When I first built it I but on a BDL 1 1/2" belt drive. It was a kick only and did pretty good. I had one belt break and I was reasonably close to home, up in NYC.  Its all only as far away as a phone call.  Then I converted to Tech Cycles and added their electric start kit originally designed for Panheads but retro fit easy enough on to my Shovel.  Not really much of a difference.  And finally a couple of years ago went Tech Cycles 3" open and running a Rivera Pro.  Thats another story to talk about.
But for the life of me I cant remember the tooth count.....I have to call Tech Cycles and get that data.  Good just to have.  By the way they have outstanding customer service and the service their starters, etc.

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

There was a saying back then I learned..... Tight Chain / Loose Belt.... everyone's happy.

And, as stated, I've not seen an issue where using a direct drive Sprocket in lieu of Comp had caused any issues. Primarily because most riders of that era Motorcycle tend to be respectful of the Machines when operating them. That too makes a big difference in longevity. Today, they just beat the Shite out of them and wonder why.

Now, if someone came up with a way to keep all the bolts tight....... they'd be virtually maintenance free between services. 

Love'em!

[AaronWWC]

Speaking of chain set up, what the hell kind of compensator is this???

[attach=0]
[attach=1]

thanks,
JW

That odd looking compensator was a Fisher vibration dampener. I remember them from the early-90's. I never used one and haven't read too many positive experiences.

[76shuvlinoff]

Personally I'd go quality chain with a solid front sprocket.  Been running my S&S 93 w/o a comp for almost 30K miles now. no issues yet.

I'm so proud of myself I quote me... 

I run no comp but I do use the Hayden primary tensioner for these bikes. The later Hayden in my TC was not impressive.
No compensator, Hayden tensioner with a chain running in oil, (sealed primary) and a Rivera Pro clutch, this old bike has smoother shifts and an easier neutral than both of the TCs I have owned. 

[tmwmoose]

I have machined by hand the inner primary so it can be slide forward same way the factory did the STURGIS model in 80-81

[JW113]

Yes, that's what I was thinking as well. Machined, as in a round file and some elbow grease.

-JW

[tmwmoose]

Yes, that's what I was thinking as well. Machined, as in a round file and some elbow grease.

-JW

Yeah and the right carbide cutter for the o ring recess , it won't take much

[friday]

I have machined by hand the inner primary so it can be slide forward same way the factory did the STURGIS model in 80-81

thats some info Ive never read, after all these years that should be common knowledge - its new to me . why wouldnt the belt co mention this or magazines ,
good to know

[JW113]

Yeah and the right carbide cutter for the o ring recess , it won't take much

O-ring? I'm not using one currently, no oil in primary with the belt. Is that necessary?

-JW

[tmwmoose]

Yeah and the right carbide cutter for the o ring recess , it won't take much

O-ring? I'm not using one currently, no oil in primary with the belt. Is that necessary?

-JW

I know your not using a o ring but the primary will have to move enough it will need to be cut away some

[dusty1]

Any way to go with a slightly smaller sprocket? Modifying inner primary can be done,lots of work tho. I run an open belt with an adjuster under tranny just to make belt/pulley changes,and alignment easier.As mentioned,primary chain is bulletproof

[JW113]

Well, what the heck. There are probably dozens of reasons to love belt drive. H-D tried it, but then abandoned it. I think to fix my way out of this current problem, gonna go with tried and true. I just bought a primary chain set up from ebay. Guess I've move from worrying about a belt braking to trying to keep (more) oil off the garage floor.

Oh yay.

-JW

[tmwmoose]

Well, what the heck. There are probably dozens of reasons to love belt drive. H-D tried it, but then abandoned it. I think to fix my way out of this current problem, gonna go with tried and true. I just bought a primary chain set up from ebay. Guess I've move from worrying about a belt braking to trying to keep (more) oil off the garage floor.

Oh yay.

-JW

That's the way to peace and relaxation my friend

[76shuvlinoff]

Well, what the heck. There are probably dozens of reasons to love belt drive. H-D tried it, but then abandoned it. I think to fix my way out of this current problem, gonna go with tried and true. I just bought a primary chain set up from ebay. Guess I've move from worrying about a belt braking to trying to keep (more) oil off the garage floor.

Oh yay.

-JW

The primary is not that tough to keep oil in.  The damn 4 speed transmission usually likes to mark it's spot but there are fixes for that too.   I fixed it by putting in on a shelf. 

[crock]

Well, what the heck. There are probably dozens of reasons to love belt drive. H-D tried it, but then abandoned it. I think to fix my way out of this current problem, gonna go with tried and true. I just bought a primary chain set up from ebay. Guess I've move from worrying about a belt braking to trying to keep (more) oil off the garage floor.

Oh yay.

-JW

Took me a while but my is dry every time. Thin paper(OEM?) gasket with a THIN film of clear silicon on both sides then FINGER tight all the screws. Go eat lunch and come back in an hour or so and snug em down good. ride it a couple times Heat cycle?) and snug again. Also found that starter solenoid can seep and fool you into thinking the cover is leaking but isn't. James makes a quad seal for that

[JW113]

Yes, my trans is pretty drip free, esp with that sandbagrail O ring spacer. But now thinking it through, I need to deal with the starter housing, that the chain at a hole in. Thank goodness for JB Weld!

Really the main leaks I have right now are from the PRIMARY! Imagine that, belt drive and dry primary, but a constant oily mess under the bike. The reason: the left side bearing insert had broke free from the case. The shop pinned it in place, but there is really no seal between the insert and the aluminum. So motor oil oozes around it, into the primary, and all over the floor. At least with a sealed primary, it'll just accumulate  in there and I'll need to check the level periodically.

Speaking of wet primary... no need to do anything with the clutch, is there? Should work wet or dry, yes?

-JW

[david lee]

Yes, my trans is pretty drip free, esp with that sandbagrail O ring spacer. But now thinking it through, I need to deal with the starter housing, that the chain at a hole in. Thank goodness for JB Weld!

Really the main leaks I have right now are from the PRIMARY! Imagine that, belt drive and dry primary, but a constant oily mess under the bike. The reason: the left side bearing insert had broke free from the case. The shop pinned it in place, but there is really no seal between the insert and the aluminum. So motor oil oozes around it, into the primary, and all over the floor. At least with a sealed primary, it'll just accumulate  in there and I'll need to check the level periodically.

Speaking of wet primary... no need to do anything with the clutch, is there? Should work wet or dry, yes?

-JW

my understanding is there are wet and dry clutch plates.your lucky you  found your chain primary on ebay there hard to find.i considered going back to chain but for the miles i do i said bugger it got the trike now

[76shuvlinoff]

If you run a isolated/sealed primary with oil up to the bottom of clutch basket (8-10 oz?) I can't see how it would have much more oil slinging around in there than the factory drip set up.   Clutch should be fine.  I'd probably try it before I replaced the clutch components but that's just me.

Side benefit, it's a lot more quiet. I have ran mine with the derby cover off while working on it. To each his own but to me it sounds like it's grenading. 

[Ohio HD]

I set up several as you described Mark. Only in applications where the motors were higher HP or run really hard did I upgrade the clutch. Otherwise I used OEM style plates with a small amount of ATF in the primary. Of course this was before such things as formula plus, etc.

[tmwmoose]

Don't forget to provide a vent should you go the sealed route

[76shuvlinoff]

Don't forget to provide a vent should you go the sealed route

Yes!
The original chain oiler port is a good place to attach a small hose for a vent. I have seen them ran up under the seat. Mine runs back over the trans and down behind it.

[JW113]

Yes indeed Mark! I did read that 5th from the top sticky. So it is written, so it shall be done!


So I've got a whole bunch of parts on the way. Primary chain drive set up from a '83 FLH. Hope it's not for a belt drive! And all the gaskets & such, mostly James. Since this was totally unsealed, will have to go through the process of plugging up all the unforeseen leaks after it's all together.

I also made a very cool score on ebay that I just have to pat myself on the back. I have been in the market for a JUNK Shovelhead outer cover to make a tool to cut off the starter bendix bearing support, so you can set up the clearance on the bendix but also fire up the bike without the outer cover on. I found one for $20, in "fair" condition, but the piece de resistance was that it came with an original polished aluminum derby cover. Only for '70-'71 I think? There is nothing I love more than polished aluminum on old motorcycles, and I will be putting a polished aluminum outer primary on the bike after I get the chain setup on. But to also have a polished aluminum derby cover.... how freakin cool is that? They are basically unobtainium, forget the aftermarket, they're all cheapo chromed pot metal from Chiwan. I and got one, plus an outer primary, for $20.


-JW