T-man crank scraper to fix sumping

[BVHOG]

https://www.facebook.com/T-MAN-PERFORMANCE-100157792180/

[kd]

    Some stuff just keeps coming around again.   Some older folks will recall building up the early slabside cases at the top to .030 or so when using 80" flathead wheels (and some early S&S stroker wheels) to reduce oil fling and build-up into the cylinders / pistons. 

[Nastytls]

I like the idea, but....

He says that there isn't enough volume in the case so they grind down the case, however, it seems that they are taking away much more case volume with that large scraper than they are adding by grinding a bit of surface away from the bottom.

The scraper is .06 from the flywheel. What about flexing of the flywheel? I'm sure when you're hammering on the bike there is some flex in these flimsy flywheels.

I hope it works, anything that helps make these engines better.

"Edit: Corrected decimal"

[Don D]

Nice
Now we need to figure out how to do the machine work and buy that so there isn't freight involved. It would not be hard to set up a CNC program if TR will market just the part.

.060 from the flywheel BTW

[Ohio HD]

   Some stuff just keeps coming around again.   Some older folks will recall building up the early slabside cases at the top to .030 or so when using 80" flathead wheels (and some early S&S stroker wheels) to reduce oil fling and build-up into the cylinders / pistons.

Yes. The real advantage to those scrapers was when there were one piece oil control rings on the piston. They didn't tolerate having a higher volume of oil thrown against them, so the motors would smoke. The three piece oil rings made the need of the scrapper in those motors not needed as much.

[Ohio HD]

I like the idea, but....

He says that there isn't enough volume in the case so they grind down the case, however, it seems that they are taking away much more case volume with that large scraper than they are adding by grinding a bit of surface away from the bottom.

The scraper is .06 from the flywheel. What about flexing of the flywheel? I'm sure when you're hammering on the bike there is some flex in these flimsy flywheels.

I hope it works, anything that helps make these engines better.

"Edit: Corrected decimal"

Flywheel condition also crossed my mind as I watched TR's video. I guess while you're in there, now's the time to strengthen the crank as much as possible. The crank he has shows a Timken, so it no doubt has had his crank service to it.

[sfmichael]

interesting concept and seems feasible

I like the fact that he tries tries to stay on the leading edge of HD development

[rbabos]

Being that the sump is below the crank cavity, why the hell is there a scavenge pump to begin with. A new engine design with the M8 they could have channeled the oil right back to the sump with no pump at all. I can see it on the previous softail versions but not these.
Ron

[wfolarry]

It's a nice idea but it will only work on 1/2 the flywheel. The other half with all the notches is the real problem. If they would move that to the outside then something like this would work great. Design the rotor on the alternator for the timing pickup & you have 2 smooth wheels to scrape oil off of or knife edge to throw it off or even a combination of both. Don't forget the piston cooling jets. Spraying even more oil. It all has to go somewhere. Max aka Admiral Akbar had a good idea to help with this. Maybe he'll see this thread & share his thoughts.

[1FSTRK]

In the mid 90's sumping was part of what held up the release of the Twin cam for a couple years.
The factory figured it out and released the engine, that design can easily be taken out to 124" on the lower volume Twin cam "A" cases with no problems. Bigger oil pump, same basic crank design with same teeth on the left flywheel and the new guys have the smaller displacement M-8 sumping. You can't improve something if you don't understand how it worked to begin with. The heads flow more air but make less power per CFM, they can't keep the trans oil out of the primary, and they can't get the engine oil out of the crank case, I am beginning to wonder if they have actually replaced fluid dynamics with a cad class at engineering school.

I do not know if the T-Man insert will help with sumping or not but if it does it will more likely be from the way the three holes pick up and meter the return oil to the pump and have less to do with scraping the skinny edge of one flywheel.

As always just MHO.

[BVHOG]

My take is that it will only pull oil from the farthest hole if the other two are covered as well, otherwise just air and more cavetation.  The 114 in the 2019 have narrowed crank wheels equaling more volume in the case and less drag or whipping of the oil.

[yobtaf103]

https://www.facebook.com/T-MAN-PERFORMANCE-100157792180/

Is that a twin balancer motor in the vid ?

[rigidthumper]

https://www.facebook.com/T-MAN-PERFORMANCE-100157792180/

Is that a twin balancer motor in the vid ?

Yep, M8 Softail cases shown.

[Admiral Akbar]

It's a nice idea but it will only work on 1/2 the flywheel. The other half with all the notches is the real problem. If they would move that to the outside then something like this would work great. Design the rotor on the alternator for the timing pickup & you have 2 smooth wheels to scrape oil off of or knife edge to throw it off or even a combination of both. Don't forget the piston cooling jets. Spraying even more oil. It all has to go somewhere. Max aka Admiral Akbar had a good idea to help with this. Maybe he'll see this thread & share his thoughts.

Well, It's not worth rewriting the information here so here's a link.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwaukee-eight-m8/1207961-my-theory-as-to-why-some-m8s-are-sumping.html

IMO Reiser's fix will work due to him making a longer inlet passage.  Lower entry points help.  The issue is complex and there are likely 1/2 dozen factors that contribute to the issue.  I have a stage 2 17 rk with 16500 miles on it and absolutely no sighs of sumping.  My V bike sumped occasionally until I replace the fueling race pump with a SnS.