Tuning constants

[Kricke]

I'm needing more adjustment in my VE and now wonder the best way to manipulate the SERT software in the best way...

Should I go down on injector size or go up in engine size??

Is there any rule how to calculate (formula) when doing this?

//Kristian

[Steve Cole]

No formula but what we recommend is to increase the engine size. Use the % increase adjustment in the software. I would add 10% to the engine size then go to the VE tables and reduce them by the same 10%. This will keep things pretty close to what you currently have yet shift the VE's downward to give you more range.

[Kricke]

OK, thanks..

I tested to use the % value to decrease the VE but getting all tables to 127 and not decreasing to the right value in percentage (i certenly doing somthing wrong here)...

//Kristian

[Kricke]

Sorry it should say TTS software NOT SERT...

//Kristian

[Herko]

Kristian.
Post a copy of your map (ie the MT7 file) as ran when the VE tables first maxed out during the VTune.
Post too your year/model/build details (more the better), including injector size.

We (other tuners too) can help from there.

[greg1140]

I am curious. If you increase the engine size and nothing else would that make it run richer?

[Kricke]

I dont use V-tune due to having 2 Motronic sensors connected to my dyno so i disable the "H-D" sensors during tuning.
I'm testing a new cam/port combo in a friends street/strip bike (nope, not trying to sell anything).

Bike 2009 Fat Boy.
103".
cr 10.5+.
custom grind cam.
Heads and throttlebody/manifold are very modified.
custom injectors 5.7g/s @3bar running @75PSI = 7.48g/s (i use the value of 6.37g/s in TTS aka aprox 85% of max, but this could be wrong in TTS?).
modified headers and slip-ons.

Starter map: PI176-002-B1

It's the area around 2750 - 4500 RPM on 15 - 30 TP that the map needs some more "juice" and the VE is 127...

So I'm going to try with multiplying all the VE values by 0.9 (if i dont be up in the blue with that formula) to get - 10% + jump up the engine size 10% and then run some more on the dyno.



I was more curious why the % value for dec/inc didn't work as i hoped it to do (TTS MasterTune ver. 1.30).

//Kristian

[Herko]

"I was more curious why the % value for dec/inc didn't work as i hoped it to do..."
Did you highlight all the cells of the VE table(s) then increment?


"It's the area around 2750 - 4500 RPM on 15 - 30 TP that the map needs some more "juice" and the VE is 127..."
Yes, typical area. What was target AFR here and what AFR was achieved at 127.5?

[Kricke]

Yes i highlited all first then i tested a single colum, but there were some that worked 100-109 but not 110 and above nor 99 and lower

15.5 in a "nice curve" from 14.2 - 14.2

[Herko]

Just tried 10% here on PI176-002-B1.
Went up and down (increment and decrement) in all VE cells anywhere from 35.0 to 127.5.
Noticed too that PI176-002-B1 has many VE's already at 120+ in the range of concern from the get go.

5.7 at 3 bar. Are these actual custom injectors flow tested at that pressure? Or possibly 5.7 SE's??
As you know, std Delphi pressure is about 4 bar vs 3 bar.

[Herko]

FWIW, Mastertune v132 now available.



[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Kricke]

hmmm probably need to reinstall the software...


yes they are rated @3bar and made to fit 2006 -up throttle body..

[Kricke]

ahhh updating on the go

[Kricke]

getting hairless after this because i cant use the % value in 1.32 either

[Herko]

JMHO but In this case I think I would use the Injector Sizing to get the VE headroom needed. I use injector sizing 90% of the time anyway with good results.

Wonder too with the increase to 75 psi, if the injector offset shifted enough to maybe require a Tuning Constant  in the 5.xx gm/sec range to get the job done? Easy enough to check, set, then go straight to the high VE area and see where you are.

Maybe one of the Tuning Titans will chime in here too.

[Kricke]

OK, I'll try both "solutions" and see what happens..

thanks...

[Steve Cole]

Not sure what you are doing wrong but it works like Herko has found in both v130 and v132.

Step 1 go to window and type 10
Step 2 select the button next to the % window so it has the round circle with a black dot in it
Step 3 select the entire table so the backround color changes
Step 4 click on the Increment or Decrement button and the values highlight will change by 10%

[Kricke]

Yes I do as you write and now on another computer (v1.32), still doesent do as it should 
I get 127.5 in almost all tables with some exceptions (about 10 tables do as stated "dec 10%")

I only have MasterTune and the updater installed if thats the problem?

for a workaround i'll do a excel doc and cut the values by 10% and then copy them in to map...

//Kristian

[Herko]

I am curious. If you increase the engine size and nothing else would that make it run richer?

Yes.

[greg1140]

Thanks Herko, The reason I was asking is I am going from a 103 to 107 but everything else will remain the same just bolting on bigger cyls so I just wanted to get it close enough without overheating to get it to the tuner.

[Steve Cole]

Yes I do as you write and now on another computer (v1.32), still doesent do as it should 
I get 127.5 in almost all tables with some exceptions (about 10 tables do as stated "dec 10%")

I only have MasterTune and the updater installed if thats the problem?

for a workaround i'll do a excel doc and cut the values by 10% and then copy them in to map...

//Kristian

What language are you running the computer under? Maybe that has something to do with the issue you are seeing and we cannot duplicate here.

[Kricke]

I running my computer with XP sp3 US english and work "puter" is Vista sp1 US and the workshop computer have XP sp2 and no one worked on the % value...

I going to change regional to US (I'm using swedish BTW) and test that..

[Kricke]

Yes it works if i change my area to US on the regional and location,, Odd because we use the same ASCII code (437) as US so it shouldn't be a problem..

//Kristian

[Steve Cole]

Thanks, now we at least can try to duplicate the issue and resolve it. It's windows and they never do anything twice the same. You would think it should work the same but in your case it appears not too.

[Kricke]

a Micro$oft bug is only a feature according to them ; )

I report back if i see some more odd behaviors when using swedish local region...

//K