110 cylinder and piston kits?

[Finn]

What is the latest opinion on 110 cylinder and piston kits: HD 92500039 or S&S 910-0651?

[kd]

  Seriously, unless the 110 parts are a steal, and you are going to include crank work, bore your cases when it's apart, go 117 (or add a 4 5/8" stroke and go 124). The 117 or 124 done right are just as reliable but provide more of everything. Like others you may wish later you did for the same money.   

By the part numbers, it looks like they are the drop in barrels that don't require a case bore so others hopefully will chime in with their personal experiences.

[Don D]

Harley parts hands down VS the S&S are better now. Not pleased with S&S QC regarding cylinder honeing currently.

[Finn]

Thanks, guys. 

[Bafflingbs]

What about the Fuel Moto 110?

[doctorevil]

Do yourself a favor do NOT buy a cylinder set from anyone you listed. there qc is garbage for like the last 2years. I do not do cyl- piston machining. it is a big investment. i am lucky to have a friend that is a bmw machine shop. Use one of the vendors on this site. YOU will get a set of cylinders and pistons with the measurement written on the pistons and cylinders and which piston labeled to its cyl. this way you will know your are getting a set machined correctly. these guys take pride in there machine work. the retail kits are 2 pistons and 2 cylinders thrown in a box.

[901SG]

   well said......

[prodrag1320]

go with a tried & true 107 kit.ALL the drop in 110 kits have way too thin spigots,imo

[Don D]

I agree. Put 600 dollars in your pocket for other upgrades too. We bore and hone in house with a sunnen cv616 and proper torque plates. We stock the KB line2line coated 107 pistons and are a distributor for KB.

[Wookie3011]

I keep reading about Torque plates. Do I need them with the 110 to 117 HD kit to install the jugs properly or is it specific to honing?

[shindig]

I keep reading about Torque plates. Do I need them with the 110 to 117 HD kit to install the jugs properly or is it specific to honing?

No.  They are used when you are boring/honing existing cylinders.  For example you have 96/103 cylinders and want to bore them out to 107.  Your kit is already done and just needs to be bolted on. 

[kd]

I keep reading about Torque plates. Do I need them with the 110 to 117 HD kit to install the jugs properly or is it specific to honing?

No.  They are used when you are boring/honing existing cylinders.  For example you have 96/103 cylinders and want to bore them out to 107.  Your kit is already done and just needs to be bolted on. 

They should also be used when measuring cylinders for being dimensionally true or wear.

[Buglet]

   I thought the Sunnen SV 10 is the hone to go to. The Sunnen guy says that the only hone to use if you want a good job.

[Finn]

...ALL the drop in 110 kits have way too thin spigots,imo

I agree.

That settles it: I'll do just air filter, cams + lifters, Supermeg and tuning. 

[838]

Harley parts hands down VS the S&S are better now. Not pleased with S&S QC regarding cylinder honeing currently.

Do you feel this way with all s&s cylinders, or just the bolt-on 100" or 110" kits?

I like the idea of using cvo 110" cylinders bored to 4.060 for a 113". That way the bottom end can be addressed during the case bore. Then your set for a 117" bolt on WAY down the road when it's time to refresh the top end. Seems like a good way to get bigger, more precision fit, reliable cubic inches...

[kd]

As said here often, if you are doing a case bore and addressing the crank go 124.  Same cost and reliability with more satisfaction.  Everyone that didn't says they wish they did.

[doctorevil]

GREAT info for everyone here. you will not get this info from any retail sellers. just a box of parts and a sticker. if your new to engine building 107 max for drop cylinders . complete different story with cases split and bored. On to the sunnen honing they wish. dont get me wrong it works ,cheap low labor cost,but it is over 100 year tooling. in rancho cucamonga is a machine shop that does the laser honing based on german Gehring technology. the computer computes crank and rod angles[lateral thrust forces on the piston skirt]. the laser then decreases hone spacing or something for greater oil film strength. looks like the bottom third of the cyl. very coolshop bmw and some small displacement aviation. i asked about nikasil cylinders for harleys because most of their work involves this coating. they were pretty condescending about harley riders abuse of a cold engine. i have a 95inch fxdx that involved this honing and i supplied the torque plates for the process. the rings are pvd coated. results were to be 18 percent reduction in friction, exhaust and compression stroke. 14 percent intake and power stroke. no change in ring tension. a conservative power in increase of 6 to 7 percent. bike did not disappoint fun to get out and bang the limiter each gear. hope i can talk these g2 secret squirrels into doing alarge displacement set for me in the future. i hope this goes more mainstream,but i think there is some intellectual property complication.

[doctorevil]

838 there is nothing wrong with S&S cylinders except the thin 110 drop in. send your cylinders to one of the vendors. they will give you precise machining .they care about you getting a quality product that is why your getting expert help for free.

[cheech]

As said here often, if you are doing a case bore and addressing the crank go 124.  Same cost and reliability with more satisfaction.  Everyone that didn't says they wish they did.

.
GOSPEL

[Don D]

Drevil
I understand the Gehring technology and it is very interesting. Problem I see is the uneven cooling we experience on the air cooled vtwins. This is the factor they can't model accurately. 
Not bad for the harleys just not an improvement over straight and true cylinders from those old school Sunnens

[doctorevil]

               HD street i never considered that aspect. i have seen in there shop air cooled airplane 4 and 6 cyl motors in their shop. they look like a vw cylinders opposed. also opposed bmw does that differ from a vtwin? I changed the oil at 100 and 600 miles vr1 20/50 i have 4000 on the oil looks clean as the day i poured it in. i rode it to phoenix in sept greater than 110 degrees tick over 4000 rpm. no detonation or any greater heat than normal gas stops. i am going to do leakdown tests before i change the oil soon.

[doctorevil]

HD street i know its off topic  they do a diamond coating for highheat environment rings .this coating requires a high moly oil any thoughts?

[Don D]

I want to be careful not to discount any of those technologies. I have done some research on PVD coating for other applications and have seen the machine that does that and also am aware of what Gehring is doing, I met with them at IMTS. The Harley cylinders, for the most part, aftermarket steel or cast distort due to uneven cooling. In my experience the only stable cylinders are solid iron or have very thick liners like an 883 or iron head or the iron Axtell cylinders. Also twin cam cylinders that are sleeved with high quality sleeves seem to endure and remain stable. Getting a good start in life is important. If the rings seal heat can be released uniformly and that is at least part of what will keep the cylinders straight and true over their lifecycle. They have to start out right (tune tune tune) and be broken in right too.

So in summary I don't know enough or have personal experience with the cylinder structuring to say if it is value added for the Harleys. Anything to improve ring seal is a big deal and important. Oil in the combustion is a major cause of detonation / carbon buildup albeit static compression gets the blame usually. The thin spigots on the steel sleeved cylinders are what they are. We can talk theory or actually ask the end users. I measure them in my plates. The Harley cylinders are not bad. Of course a shop that has the right equipment, gauging, and know how can do better. Others I reject if they are all over the place which is what I have been experiencing lately.

Hey there's a good excuse for the companies that have a millenial hone guy at the helm. "We are restructuring the cylinders for better ring seal"

[doctorevil]

Thankyou for your thoughts HD.