FLH Rake and Trail

[JW113]

I've searched all over the place, cannot find any rake and trail specification for FLH 4 speed frame. Anybody happen to know?

thanks,
JW

[rageglide]

How about 26deg rake (frame), 6.2" trail.

[motorhogman]

from 70 - early 78 FL/FLH   FX/FXE/FXS  facory SM

[rageglide]

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html   scroll to the bottom.   

motorhogman, I think rake in the FSM seems more correct than what I saw at RB.  The WG trees have built in rake and the trees are the same in the 80's WG clear through 1999 Evos.  Would be odd to have the same rake in the trees used on both Softail and FLH frames...

Factory service manuals seem to be hit and miss on specs like this.  My factory service manual doesn't have any dim's for the frame.

John, Puccio had frame blue prints.  I think he's still there... might be worth a visit.

[friday]

the 4 speed was 30 degrees since way back

http://raceframeengineering.com/

[motorhogman]

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html   scroll to the bottom.   

motorhogman, I think rake in the FSM seems more correct than what I saw at RB.  The WG trees have built in rake and the trees are the same in the 80's WG clear through 1999 Evos.  Would be odd to have the same rake in the trees used on both Softail and FLH frames...

Factory service manuals seem to be hit and miss on specs like this.  My factory service manual doesn't have any dim's for the frame.

John, Puccio had frame blue prints.  I think he's still there... might be worth a visit.

The SM that is from is old.. copyright is 1978.

[friday]

reviews in old mags or AMF brochures. the internet has misinfo.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMF-HARLEY-DAVIDSON-1979-V-TWIN-MOTORCYCLE-SALES-Spec-BROCHURE-Rare-Find-LOOK/362811916504?hash=item54794680d8:g:h6oAAOSwCg9ele6s

[JW113]

Alright, I looked at my FSM and yes see the frame specs there. Never thought to do that. HOWEVER, that is not the rake as it would be on a fully assembled bike sitting on level pavement. Those specs are for a frame sitting on a flat level surface, so you can take frame measurements to check for alignment. An assembled bike is going to have the front of the frame higher than the back of the frame, so the rake angle will be more.

Not sure where you're getting trail from, I could not find that in the FSM. I suppose I could measure it on mine, maybe do that tomorrow. Measuring rake would be easy, except for those darn cowbells. Can't get to the fork tubes. Maybe I'll eyeball it using something for a datum, maybe the two bolts that hold the nacelle on.

So why am I asking this? Trying to understand why a Shovelhead FL front end feels so much heavier than a Softail FL front end. At 20 feet, they look like the same damn thing, but clearly something has to be different between them. All I can figure is rake and trail.

By the way, rake and trail on a Softail FL is 32deg x 5.8".

-JW

[david lee]

Alright, I looked at my FSM and yes see the frame specs there. Never thought to do that. HOWEVER, that is not the rake as it would be on a fully assembled bike sitting on level pavement. Those specs are for a frame sitting on a flat level surface, so you can take frame measurements to check for alignment. An assembled bike is going to have the front of the frame higher than the back of the frame, so the rake angle will be more.

Not sure where you're getting trail from, I could not find that in the FSM. I suppose I could measure it on mine, maybe do that tomorrow. Measuring rake would be easy, except for those darn cowbells. Can't get to the fork tubes. Maybe I'll eyeball it using something for a datum, maybe the two bolts that hold the nacelle on.

So why am I asking this? Trying to understand why a Shovelhead FL front end feels so much heavier than a Softail FL front end. At 20 feet, they look like the same damn thing, but clearly something has to be different between them. All I can figure is rake and trail.

By the way, rake and trail on a Softail FL is 32deg x 5.8".

-JW

im sure fsg would know

[76shuvlinoff]

My 76 FLH feels a bit heavier at low speed since I did the 3 degree bearing kit in about 2004.  I keep telling myself one of these days I will reinstall the stock cups.... one of these days..

[JW113]

Yeah, at a stand still or low speed, mine feels like a wheel barrel full of wet cement. No issue at highway speed, or course. Amazing how the trailing tube geometry on the later FLs makes them light as a feather.

-JW

[Tacocaster]

...I have a buddy who'd say, "At low speeds it's like dancing with a fat lady". Pretty apt description, I'd say.

[SanB2013]

Yeah, at a stand still or low speed, mine feels like a wheel barrel full of wet cement. No issue at highway speed, or course. Amazing how the trailing tube geometry on the later FLs makes them light as a feather.

-JW

JW, I have asked that same question before and you describe the feel perfectly. Pushing a full wheel barrel WITH A FLAT TIRE.  Just moving it around the garage is a workout.  I'd be interested in coming up with a way to "lighten it up a bit".

Steve

[PC_Hater]

I had a rummage through my library.
Cycle World road test dated 1st October 1978: FLH80 rake 30 degrees, trail 5.75 inches.

[friday]

^^^ and that is why old mags rule

especially those type of mags that cover all bikes and are only interested in the specs and real world performance

good info

[One4Tone]

...may be time to hit the gym...and build up those pipes...I find the full size harleys can be a handfull...where 40 years ago it was not even a thought...

[capn]

They may feel heavy in your garage but riding curvy roads the shovels handle better.I have a 97 bagger and a 76 FLH. I can take turns faster on the shovel.

[PC_Hater]

They may feel heavy in your garage but riding curvy roads the shovels handle better.I have a 97 bagger and a 76 FLH. I can take turns faster on the shovel.

Ah: all that means is that it is time to go down the rabbit hole and start to fix all of the many things that can upset a rubber-mount bagger!
The manual for the Police Spec baggers says to replace the front motor mount at 20,000 mile intervals, might be a good place to start.

[capn]

I got new rubber mounts, spherical swing arm bearings,one inch axles and wheel bearings,later model swing arm and brakes.

[Burnout]

JW, I have asked that same question before and you describe the feel perfectly. Pushing a full wheel barrel WITH A FLAT TIRE.  Just moving it around the garage is a workout.  I'd be interested in coming up with a way to "lighten it up a bit".

Steve

I usually put air in the tires to fix that.