TechnoResearch tuning??

[teknition]

Looking for opinions on a getting dyno tune on my 2019 Ultra limited. I bought a Dynojet Power vision PV-2B tuner thinking that would be the best tuning option when I get my S&S 128 big bore build completed (soon) but I am running into a road block. I would like to get a professional dyno tune on it but can't find anyone within a few hundred miles of me that can do it using the power vision. The only guy relatively close says he can absolutely tune it but I have to go with a "Technoresearch tuning package" for $1000.00. Up until this point I had never even heard of TechnoResearch but this guy claims they are the best tuning software on the market. Anyone have any experience getting dyno tuned by someone using TechnoResearch? Would love to hear some feedback or thoughts on this, especially from actual professional dyno tuners.

[kd]

I travel 9 hrs one way to a tuner.  I WISH I had your problem. I would keep looking. You nare perfectly positioned to get to a tuner in the US if / when the border opens. Start searching there.  I believe you are reasonably close to a couple of members that tune.

[Coyote]

A tuning key for TR is less than $200. Where does the $1000 come from?

[rigidthumper]

I haven't bought a key lately, so I checked fleabay- prices range from $260-$400, depending on model & seller, and you need a VCM-TR3 to tune with (shop should already have this).  He may be wanting to sell him a Maximus, which range from $400-$500. Maybe it's $500 tune and $500 maximus?

[hrdtail78]

Techno Research is a good tuning product and falls right in the middle of the other tuning devices.  Price is subjective and depends on several things.  Doesn't sound like you have a lot of tuners in your area to begin with.  But the key is retailed for $318.95 but needs already bought equipment.  With the Maximus (retail $385.95) you don't need the extra equipment and I know shops that go that route.  I don't think $550-600 is outrageous for a custom tune.  .....and don't forget the $23-30 for tax.

[Coyote]

The sell in 10's for 200 or less. You can find them for less without much effort.

Link

[teknition]

I travel 9 hrs one way to a tuner.  I WISH I had your problem. I would keep looking. You nare perfectly positioned to get to a tuner in the US if / when the border opens. Start searching there.  I believe you are reasonably close to a couple of members that tune.

If I thought there was a remote chance of the U.S. border opening up soon, I wouldn't be worried at all but I would like to ride my bike before the snow flies.

[teknition]

A tuning key for TR is less than $200. Where does the $1000 come from?

I'm not exactly sure what a "Technoresearch tuning package" is but I will be asking him. I have never heard of them before so I wasn't sure if it is an actual tuner (hardware) like a power vision or just a dongle that is only a license for the tuning facility to use for access.

[teknition]

I just bought the target tune kit. I think I will try to tune it on my own. Is it possible to end up with a dyno like tune with a PV-2b and target tune?

[aswracing]

I just bought the target tune kit. I think I will try to tune it on my own. Is it possible to end up with a dyno like tune with a PV-2b and target tune?

I think you made the right move.

For one thing, it can do closed-loop wide band, which is something no dyno can do.

[hrdtail78]

I just bought the target tune kit. I think I will try to tune it on my own. Is it possible to end up with a dyno like tune with a PV-2b and target tune?

I think you made the right move.

For one thing, it can do closed-loop wide band, which is something no dyno can do.

Maybe, but I have done closed loop wide band tuning on my dyno before.  The magic of my dyno is the electronic brake.  It really doesn't do any tuning.

[teknition]

I just bought the target tune kit. I think I will try to tune it on my own. Is it possible to end up with a dyno like tune with a PV-2b and target tune?

I think you made the right move.

For one thing, it can do closed-loop wide band, which is something no dyno can do.

Maybe, but I have done closed loop wide band tuning on my dyno before.  The magic of my dyno is the electronic brake.  It really doesn't do any tuning.

So you can simulate road conditions on the dyno, can the same not be done on the road?

[rigidthumper]

No cops to give you a ticket on the dyno...

[hrdtail78]

I just bought the target tune kit. I think I will try to tune it on my own. Is it possible to end up with a dyno like tune with a PV-2b and target tune?

I think you made the right move.

For one thing, it can do closed-loop wide band, which is something no dyno can do.

Maybe, but I have done closed loop wide band tuning on my dyno before.  The magic of my dyno is the electronic brake.  It really doesn't do any tuning.

So you can simulate road conditions on the dyno, can the same not be done on the road?

Define road conditions.  If you mean all different loads vs rpm vs tps.  I'd say more with a dyno than you can on the street. 

[aswracing]

I just bought the target tune kit. I think I will try to tune it on my own. Is it possible to end up with a dyno like tune with a PV-2b and target tune?

I think you made the right move.

For one thing, it can do closed-loop wide band, which is something no dyno can do.

Maybe, but I have done closed loop wide band tuning on my dyno before.  The magic of my dyno is the electronic brake.  It really doesn't do any tuning.

Closed loop wide band means the ECM constantly monitors the wide band sensors as you ride and makes adjustments on the fly. That's the functionality that Target Tune kit brings to the party. No dyno can do that.

Sure, you (and I) with our eddy brake dynos can log data, build new VE tables, and reflash, but that's not the same as implementing closed loop wide band operation in the bike's ECM.

[aswracing]

There's no question you can hit more cells using a dyno. That can't even be argued.

But you can also question the value of tuning cells that can't be hit while street riding.

[Hossamania]

So a combo of both would be ideal?

[hrdtail78]

I just bought the target tune kit. I think I will try to tune it on my own. Is it possible to end up with a dyno like tune with a PV-2b and target tune?

I think you made the right move.

For one thing, it can do closed-loop wide band, which is something no dyno can do.

Maybe, but I have done closed loop wide band tuning on my dyno before.  The magic of my dyno is the electronic brake.  It really doesn't do any tuning.

Closed loop wide band means the ECM constantly monitors the wide band sensors as you ride and makes adjustments on the fly. That's the functionality that Target Tune kit brings to the party. No dyno can do that.

Sure, you (and I) with our eddy brake dynos can log data, build new VE tables, and reflash, but that's not the same as implementing closed loop wide band operation in the bike's ECM.

No a dyno can't do that (maybe) but there are other devices that allow full closed loop tuning with integrator with wide band sensors on the fly.  In the ECM.  The tech that allows this for TT to do this is 20 years old.  Things have progressed in that time.

[Don D]

BLM, Block learn in GM Delphi injection systems provides some automatic adjustments during closed loop operation. In HD language that is probably Adaptive Fuel Value. The AFV cells store the long-term learned fuel correction ("trim") over the closed-loop operating range.

[aswracing]

BLM, Block learn in GM Delphi injection systems provides some automatic adjustments during closed loop operation. In HD language that is probably Adaptive Fuel Value. The AFV cells store the long-term learned fuel correction ("trim") over the closed-loop operating range.

Yes, but only with the narrow band sensors. We're talking about closed loop with wide bands.

[hrdtail78]

BLM, Block learn in GM Delphi injection systems provides some automatic adjustments during closed loop operation. In HD language that is probably Adaptive Fuel Value. The AFV cells store the long-term learned fuel correction ("trim") over the closed-loop operating range.

Yes, but only with the narrow band sensors. We're talking about closed loop with wide bands. 

I am too.  Real time closed loop with wide bands.  Not tuned with a vision or target tune.  To add.  The device I am talking about also allows closed loop feed back with EGT.  Pretty cool.

[Don D]

I understand and the adaptive fuel scope is very limited. By the way good discussion.

Some tuners use both narrow and wide bands. Closest to real world so they can actually set targets in realistic ranges and get data from the device best suited to the AFR value target. The use of a wide band for control is the only way to command outside the limited parameters of the narrow bands if closed loop all the time is employed. Target Tune may be a great product for someone totally without a dyno tuner available but still the dyno will be where timing strategies are worked out and the AFR works with that for the best power outcomes, reduced heat, and spark knock control.

[hrdtail78]

It is a good discussion.   

[teknition]

Thanks to all who replied. This is a great discussion and I am trying to absorb as much as I can. I know there is "some" adjustment for ignition timing in the PV quick tune menu (low, med, high, global, etc.). Does PV make timing adjustments when in auto tune? I suspect it doesn't. How can I figure out the timing part of the tune? Are there visual indicators in a screen in PV? or do you advance timing in a section till you experience knock then back is off a few degrees? How is it done on a dyno with PV?

[FXDBI]

Thanks to all who replied. This is a great discussion and I am trying to absorb as much as I can. I know there is "some" adjustment for ignition timing in the PV quick tune menu (low, med, high, global, etc.). Does PV make timing adjustments when in auto tune? I suspect it doesn't. How can I figure out the timing part of the tune? Are there visual indicators in a screen in PV? or do you advance timing in a section till you experience knock then back is off a few degrees? How is it done on a dyno with PV?

Powervision has a method to adjust the timing its in the manual under the pro tune section using the spark knock.  Bob