full dyno tune on new build question

[Adam76]

Hey guys,
I've just finished a full top end rebuild on my '02 Fatboy with 95" big bore pistons and CR575 cams. I also have  the DTT ignition and have rebuilt and re jetted the carb.

I just spoke to my dyno tuner who is the best in my area, and he won't dyno tune the bike until I've done 1000 miles "break in"...

I was planning on just doing 50 or 100 miles and then getting the full tune.

What is the best practice in this situation, and why?

Thanks for any advice.

[Deye76]

he don't want to spend the time. Nothing better than a temp/afr/timing controlled break in on a dyno. Get another guy.

[Coyote]

You need a new tuner.

[Adam76]

he don't want to spend the time. Nothing better than a temp/afr/timing controlled break in on a dyno. Get another guy.

Thanks Deye76, I think I'll find another guy.

It's strange because this guy is arguably the best we have in this city and he has a 3 month wait list for a dyno booking!!

When I questioned him about WHY he insists on a 1000 mile break in before full tune..... he said that's just the way he's always done it, and I guess he's not about to change now...

[Adam76]

You need a new tuner.

Thanks Coyote, I've found a guy that will break it in on the dyno and also tune it.

I live around 20 miles from this place - should I get the bike there on a trailer? Or just ride it in? I'm not too sure about riding it in because from what I understand the first 50 miles are the most important when it comes to breaking a New build in and I have no idea where my AFR / timing etc is right now.

Thanks

[Coyote]

Since I'm assuming you have no way to see how it's running,  I'd take it on a trailer.  Heat cycles only.

[kd]

   That's good advice (the best actually) that many don't have the patience to follow. As said, a tuner that says it's OK to run it for 1,000 miles is not well informed.  They may be able to arrange the tune graph but it may be too late by then.  He'll be the last one to take responsibility too.  Early running with poor AFR can destroy a set of cylinders, pistons and rings.

[Adam76]

Thanks guys, I'll arrange a trailer and drop it off for the break in tune and then full tune.

Cheers

[kd]

Your tuner will likely set the lower ranges and work his way into the full tune in one session.  The rings will be seated in the first hour or so while he watches the AFR and temp.

[Adam76]

Your tuner will likely set the lower ranges and work his way into the full tune in one session.  The rings will be seated in the first hour or so while he watches the AFR and temp.

Thanks 👍

[Adam76]

Bummer, just when I thought it was all good to go, I install my rear fender and turn the ignition to ON... front brake light switch isn't working - even though I took extra special care not to brake it, and the turn signals don't work either side.

I guess it's time to pull the tank off again and look through the wiring. 😁

[hbkeith]

 

[Rockout Rocker Products]

The "expert" SF Bay area tuner sends the bike off with a canned map for 1000 miles.

I could go on...

[harpwrench]

It's ridiculous to ground a CV carb bike for 3 months while you wait your turn. Put a 46 low speed jet and a 190 main jet in it, if it sneezes at stop signs step up to a 48. If it pings pull the timing back.

[Adam76]

It's ridiculous to ground a CV carb bike for 3 months while you wait your turn. Put a 46 low speed jet and a 190 main jet in it, if it sneezes at stop signs step up to a 48. If it pings pull the timing back.

Thanks harpwrench, that's pretty much how I'm set up.
46 pilot.
195 main
CVP needle
Mixture screw 3 turns from seated.

I will give it a test ride around the block and see how it actually runs.... that's if I can get my turn signals to work. I've just lost all 4 Turn signals. Everything else works ??

Thanks

[98fxstc]

Heat cycles first, then a ride with a bit of space to do some compression braking to seat your rings.

[Adam76]

Heat cycles first, then a ride with a bit of space to do some compression braking to seat your rings.

Thanks 👍

[JSD]

I dont like WOT run on new pistons. U have Carb so 200 main on a 95 . Lift the needle & up the pilot. Heat cycle then bed rings 50 mls change to synthic and seat the piston to bore over next 1000. 2000 shes run in. Seen to many scuffed piston skirts. Oil changes & keep motor temps down. 

[Adam76]

I dont like WOT run on new pistons. U have Carb so 200 main on a 95 . Lift the needle & up the pilot. Heat cycle then bed rings 50 mls change to synthic and seat the piston to bore over next 1000. 2000 shes run in. Seen to many scuffed piston skirts. Oil changes & keep motor temps down.

Thanks JSD. 👍

[kd]

So you went from break-in on the dyno to changing jets based on pinging and or sneezes? You're also going back to doing 1,000 miles before tuning? 

[Don D]

Mineral oil, 15 miles on the road normal riding, roll-ons, not hammering it and it is done.
Change the oil and get on with it. A dyno on a carbed bike isn't something I would even bother with. I would play with the timing a little and read the plugs.

[hrdtail78]

Bummer, just when I thought it was all good to go, I install my rear fender and turn the ignition to ON... front brake light switch isn't working - even though I took extra special care not to brake it, and the turn signals don't work either side.

I guess it's time to pull the tank off again and look through the wiring. 😁

Maybe why a tuner doesn't like to touch bikes others have built until you got 1000 mile shake down miles on it.  Not saying this is the best way to do it at all, but some think it is best for their shop.  If you are booked out for 3 months.  Last thing you want to deal with is other people's problems with their builds.  Seems an extra couple of hours not planned for on one tune sets you back 2 days for the bike that is 5th on the list.

[JW113]

Mineral oil, 15 miles on the road normal riding, roll-ons, not hammering it and it is done.
Change the oil and get on with it. A dyno on a carbed bike isn't something I would even bother with. I would play with the timing a little and read the plugs.

THIS. 

Amazing how we someone manged to get by the past 100 years breaking in motor vehicles without a dyno, huh? I tend to do several run cycles in the garage, about an hour apart, to get it warm then cool back down, and have a peek at the timing. In case I screwed up anything mechanical, best have it fly apart at home rather than on the road. But after that, out on the road for short hops through the 'hood, moving on to laps on the freeway and roll-ons. The only reason for him to go see the dyno guy is to find out how over-jetted is, and deal with that. Or, buy an AFR gauge...

-JW

[kd]

The AFR was my point.  Over fuel or lean settings for break in are not a good idea.  It will set the stage for engine wear at its most critical point.

[JW113]

Sure, that is a concern. But I look at it slightly different for somebody that's doing an engine overhaul in their garage. The bike ran before with what ever jetting (or FI map) that was in it. So why after a rebuild would the same fueling not work? From what I recall, this motor is not radically different from what it was before the rebuild.

-JW