2001 Fatboy Battery Drain

[snakeoil]

My 2001 Fatboy sits a lot as I have a number of bikes. When it does, the battery gets drained enough that the engine just will not start. Turns over fine, pops, farts but will not start. Put the battery on a charger and she fires right up.

My guess is there is a constant drain on the battery from some part of the electrical system. My first guess would be the anti-theft system. The ground cable draws a spark every time it is connected and I put a DMM on it an although I don't remember the number, there is a slight parasitic load on the battery when the bike is parked.

Can this parasitic load be turned off? I would think that after 21 years, somebody figured out a way to shut that load off and stop the battery from discharging when parked.

Yes, I realize the short term fix is just leave it on a Battery Tender or similar when parked. Buy my pole barn does not have electricity so not really convenient. Might install a solar charger if there is no other alternative. I got 17 years out of the OEM battery. So, I replaced it with an HD battery from the dealer. I suspect they are not as good as they were back in 2001.

Thanks,
Rob

[Coyote]

The ecm and security module both draw a few milliamps. You could probably turn on the ignition, wait for the bike to disarm and then pull the maxi fuse. Down side is that, if you have a smart siren, the battery in it will slowly fade. If not, I don't see a down side.

[snakeoil]

Interesting. So, pulling the fuse for the alarm system will work. Gonna go try it right now. No siren on my bike. I never use the system. Hell, I never lock the ignition when I park it. Bike theft is not an issue around here.

Thanks. Will report back if it does the trick.

[Jim Bronson]

I used to own a Lotus that sat in the garage a lot. It had a nasty habit of draining the battery after a couple of months. I found a battery terminal switch in an auto parts store, and that solved the problem. I'm sure you could rig up switch that would work and could placed in a discreet location.

[snakeoil]

 A battery disconnect is a challenge given the confined space under the seat. That said, I've come up with unique designs to solve issues like this in the past. Might be that will be the ultimate solution. Would love to have a switch that could be mounted in a location that did not require seat removal every time. I have a disconnect on my old Ural. But there is enough room on that bike for a knife switch from the Frankenstein movies.

Coyote, just tried your suggestion. Started the engine and then pulled the main security fuse. All was well. Shut it off and tried to start the bike and no starter. Button was dead. I have not checked the diagrams, but suspect that the security fuse needs to be in place for the starter circuit to work. Oh well. Was worth a shot.

[Coyote]

No one said to start the bike and yes if you pull the main fuse you can't start the bike. Having said that, I missed that your bike is a 2001 so I'm not sure if it has a maxi-fuse or a breaker. Short of adding a 40 amp switch, I'm not sure what to suggest for that bike. If it were mine, I'd keep it on a tender. ymmv

[Thermodyne]

Best fix is to locate the draw and repair it.  Before it turns into something that leaves you stranded.

To locate the draw, take your VOM and check the fuses while the key is off.  Use the millivolt setting and test across the fuses.  If current is flowing through the fuse, you'll see some millivolts on the meter.  That tells you what circuit the draw in on.  The millivolts reading itself is not real meaningful, just that it is there.

Next pull that fuse and set the VOM to amps.  Then use the meter to replace the fuse.  That will give you the amount of the draw in amps.  You're looking for .1 amps or more to pull a battery down in less than two weeks.  After that, look at your wiring diagram and see what is on that circuit.  Then one at a time, start disconnecting those items until you find the cause of the draw.

If none of the fuses show any voltage with the millivolt part of the test, check the main breaker.  If you have current flow there, but not in the fuses, then the regulator would be suspect.  Disconnect it from the breaker and use the VOM on amps to see if there is any draw on it with the engine off.  One lead on the battery plus, one on the wire to the regulator.  If it has add on stuff wired directly to the battery, you can check it the same way.

A word on VOMs.  Not all of them can check amps.  The ones that can usually come in two grades, 10 amp or 20 amp.  So you need to know that your load does not exceed the amp rating of the meter, or you will blow the fuse in the meter.  Fast way to do that is with an inductive meter, they wont read 10/ths of a volt very well, but they will read 10 or 20 amps just fine.  If you dont have one of those, use an inline fuse of the same amps as your meter.  If its say 10 amps, just use the inline fuse to complete the id'd circut.  If it doesn't blow, then its OK to put your VOM on it.  And of course if the you ID'd a 10 amp fuse as the source of the draw, then its safe to use a 10 amp VOM on it. 

Where it gets hard is when the draw is only there occasionally.  But it sounds like yours is there all of the time.  And to make it less of a four hand job, you can get some little connectors to replace the fuses, so that you can clamp  the VOM leads in place.

[Fugawee]

Great explanation and picture.   

[snakeoil]

Appreciate the input. I started the bike to see if that suggestion would work. I guess I misterpretted your suggestion. I had asked how to disable the anti-theft device and and it appears your answer was how to disable it temporarily. And that would work from shutting off the draw POV. I thought it was a way to shut down the anti-theft system.

I had run thru the checks you suggest last year. Just did not remember which circuits were involved. I had concluded it was the anti-theft that was the culprit and research at the time revealed that it does have a parasitic draw when the bike is parked. I agree that your suggested process to check was well written. I used to be a start-up engineer for big power plants and also spent a lot of time troubleshooting power plants on forced outage. Troubleshooting controls issues is something I'm pretty familiar with. But, where I run dry is how the ECM and anti-theft systems operate and was hoping someone had found a trick for shutting the anti-theft off such that it will stay off. Lots of tricks out there to disable stuff these days. Thought there might be one for this year HD.

In the interim, I found a solution. I have a small solar charger I installed last year. Small panel I connected to an inverter so I could run a radio in the barn. Got sick of buying batteries. The batteries for the system are out of an old Razor scooter that my neighbor was taking to the dump at least 10 years ago. I used them for test work and such in the shop. It amazed me that they have held up this long. I put them on the solar charger and then connected the inverter to the batteries. Yesterday, I tried plugging in my Battery Minder and it worked. It only draws 0.19 amps. I actually can play the radio and keep the bike on a charger at the same time. So, I'm good for now. But I probably will revisit the issue on a rainy day. Your point about the regulator is a good one. Aftermarket regulators like Podtronics and Tympanium all have leakage to ground and will draw down a battery over time when parked. I now either pull the fuse on the battery or connect a relay in the regulator circuit to isolate it when the bike is parked.

[snakeoil]

Well, I'm starting to doubt my aging memory, or perhaps my sanity. I decided to run the tests on the bike again and got a slightly different result. When you first turn off the bike, there is a tiny draw on the battery. But after a few seconds, it shuts off. I was set to 2A and the scale has 3 decimal places and it read a hard zero after the draw shut off. And the draw, while it was on, was 1ma. So, it is starting to look like the relatively new battery is showing the signs of an early death compared to the original. Charger should help reduce that. But I just might disconnect the battery from the bike and leave it that way while I'm gone for the weekend and see what it looks like after the weekend.

Rob

[Coyote]

Your meter is likely not good enough to read the current drain on a 2 amp scale. Even on my commercial Fluke meters, I need to be on 200mA scale to read it accurately. It's normal for the bike to draw more for a few seconds after the ignition is shut off. When I measure this, I put a clip lead across my meter leads (basically shorting across). Then put the meter leads inline with the battery cable. Wait a few seconds and then remove the clip leads and allow the meter to read. If you don't do this, you will likely blow the fuse in the meter on the 200mA scale.

[snakeoil]

Typo on my part. I was on 2ma scale. But you are right, it will blow the fuse and the fuse did blow. This is the expensive ($20 with a coupon) meter from Horror Fright. But I also own Flukes and Simpsons from my days doing controls work. The good meters are all at home. The HF meter is actually pretty good for the money. And, even though it blew the fuse on the lower scale, the meter has a fused plug and an unfused plug (20 amp max). If I plug into the unfused plug, the meter still reads on the lower ma scales. But it will fry the board if you put more than 20A into it.

I was gone for 3 days and left the bike on the charger which runs off the solar panel. I went into the barn and started the engine. Fired right up. So, it would appear that the battery is dying as I suspected. The whole point of spending the added money for the HD battery was the extended life that I saw with the original battery. If the HD replacement batteries are not the same quality as that 2001 battery, I might as well go with a cheapy battery made in China by prisoners and just get a new one every few years and be done with it. Along those same lines, I just remembered that when the HD battery died, I bought a replacement from NAPA. That one only lasted 2 years if I remember right and would not start (it would crank) the bike. So, my OEM was not 17 years old, but more like 15 years old. I put that NAPA battery in my Ural and it is still doing well. Justs not enough snot to start the HD engine. Starts the 650 Ural like staring a B&S engine.

[RTMike]

Stick with the Harley battery most of the other brands don't have the cold cranking amps

[kd]

Yuasa is a good battery and they sell a higher cranking amp battery.  Places like Battery Man are reasonably priced or of course try California Phil first.

[hattitude]

I've tried several brands of batteries over the years, my last three batteries have been Yuasa GYZ series AGM batteries...

They can be expensive, probably similar to an HD OEM battery from a dealer. They spin my bike's engines effortlessly.....

My bagger has the oldest one at 4 years and it still spins my 124" engine like the plugs are removed. The other two are in softails (one Stage I & the other a big bore kit). Those batteries are 2 and 3 years old... still working flawlessly..

Since I have three bikes and never know which one I will ride next, they are each put on smart tender after being parked in my garage. Been using that ride/park protocol for about 10 years. I have had a couple of different bargain batteries and they seem to last only three years.. One on a softail started laboring at two years... I swapped it out before it stranded me...

Time will tell, but the Yuasa batteries seem to be a strong, high quality battery...

[Hossamania]

This has kept two Duracell batteries in my RK and Ultra going for 7 years now. I would have bet they last only two years, but still going.

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[snakeoil]

This has kept two Duracell batteries in my RK and Ultra going for 7 years now. I would have bet they last only two years, but still going.

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I have that same charger at the lake. I'm still not sure if the high freq pulses truly do extend battery life, but it seems to do a good job charging.

I'm spoiled by that first OEM battery lasting so long. In fairness to my current HD battery, I did have the internal tank fuel line spring a leak. Actually, it sprung several leaks over some period of time unknown to me. So, it would crank and crank before it would fire up. I killed the battery multiple times over that period so that did not help with longevity. An old friend of mine has been in the HD aftermarket business for probably 40 years. He is the one that told me that the HD battery is the best one on on the market and worth the extra money. That was when Johnson Controls was making them in the USA. But I understand they make a number of batteries in Mexico and other places now so who knows if the quality is still there. I think I'll have the battery load tested at the end of the season and if it shot, I'll get a new one in the spring. I'll look at the Yuasa's. I remember those from my youth and many Japanese motorcycles, all with electric start. They were always good.

[Hossamania]

This has kept two Duracell batteries in my RK and Ultra going for 7 years now. I would have bet they last only two years, but still going.

You cannot see attachments on this board.

I have that same charger at the lake. I'm still not sure if the high freq pulses truly do extend battery life, but it seems to do a good job charging.

I'm spoiled by that first OEM battery lasting so long. In fairness to my current HD battery, I did have the internal tank fuel line spring a leak. Actually, it sprung several leaks over some period of time unknown to me. So, it would crank and crank before it would fire up. I killed the battery multiple times over that period so that did not help with longevity. An old friend of mine has been in the HD aftermarket business for probably 40 years. He is the one that told me that the HD battery is the best one on on the market and worth the extra money. That was when Johnson Controls was making them in the USA. But I understand they make a number of batteries in Mexico and other places now so who knows if the quality is still there. I think I'll have the battery load tested at the end of the season and if it shot, I'll get a new one in the spring. I'll look at the Yuasa's. I remember those from my youth and many Japanese motorcycles, all with electric start. They were always good.

I got that Minder because a coworker had used one to bring a car battery back to life that had been dead for a year in his mother's car. A regular charger wouldn't do it. He said it took a couple months, but he's been using it in his Camaro that gets driven infrequently for a couple years.

[snakeoil]

I got that Minder because a coworker had used one to bring a car battery back to life that had been dead for a year in his mother's car. A regular charger wouldn't do it. He said it took a couple months, but he's been using it in his Camaro that gets driven infrequently for a couple years.

They have been around for a while and folks tend to figure out a scam eventually. I spoke to them over the phone to get some technical insight. They pretty much said the same thing that they marketing info provides. I did some more research and the theory is sound. But even BM said that the smaller chargers are not as good at it as their larger ones. I also have one of their solar chargers on my boat lift. It keeps the battery used for putting the lift up and down charged. Initially, I used one of my old boat batteries that would not crank the engine any longer. That BM solar charger kept that tired old boat battery up enough to get many years of lift service out of it.

[snakeoil]

It's been almost two months now and I thought I'd give a follow-up.

Looks like the battery was the root cause. The solar panel/inverter powering my Battery Minder is doing the trick. Bike fires right up regardless of how long it has sat. No back fires or other symptoms as before. My guess is as the battery charge degrades, it has enough power to crank the engine, but that does not leave enough to either fire the ignition, fire the injectors or both. That would explain the backfires while it cranks and cranks and cranks...

Should be good for the rest of the riding season. We'll see what next year brings when I take it out of mothballs.

Rob

[smoserx1]

If you got 15 years out of your OEM battery you ought to be in the Guinness World Records.  Good luck, I doubt you will repeat that accomplishment.

[snakeoil]

The interesting part about the OEM battery is I never put a charger on it during the riding season. Rode it and parked it, nothing else. It did start to struggle in the Fall and would need a charge in order to start. But by then, I'd gotten probably 12 years out of it so not a big deal.

And even if my NAPA lasted 3 years in the Harley, that would still put the OEM at a 14 year life. I was as amazed as you. I've been recalibrated now. Will probably get a DEKA when the time comes.