Power Arc ignition

[04customking]

I think my expensive new ignition is toast. I've been having some periodic no start issues that I have been trying to explain by my not knowing what it wanted for fuel. Well, I went for a ride yesterday and all was well. Let it sit for awhile and I couldn't start it again. Today, same thing. Tried new plugs (ones that came out looked fine.) and nothing. Checked the timing just in case but it's fine. Finally got it going and it was missing a little bit so I figured I'd take it around the block. Started popping and banging and quit a block away. Pushed the damn thing home. I can get it to fire but it backfires through the exhaust and carb and quits. I have the same power arc complete ignition that Craig uses. I don't have a clue how to troubleshoot this thing to know if that's the problem. With the plugs out and grounded I get spark but it's not one good zap, it's more like a few weak ones. Craig, you got any ides? Does Perry know anything about these or just sell them?
Jim

[stroker800]

  I,m not experienced with that brand,,,,I found on the Vulcan,(motorway eng) that if the magnet in the rotor is weak or non magnetic it will not perform ...After sending back modules and being told I don't know how to time it correctly,,I tested the strength of the magnets in rotor ,,,One was weak other one nothing,,,see how strong the magnets are ,,,
Dave

[electra66]

I toasted mine 400 miles from home. My fault, I grabbed a set of plug wires advertised for electronic ignitions, but didn't realize they were copper instead of carbon, 2,500 miles later - dead... Put a mallory I had on and ran it until yesterday, it just looks to billet on a old bike. I rebuilt a stock timer and bolted it up yesterday. I loved the looks and performance of that spyke unit, but carring a $250 spare module in my stash don't appeal to me, and beign stranded on I-59 again doesn't either.

I'm considering trying the Ebeyond 2000 and carrying points for a backup.

I know this doesn't help your troubleshooting, when my died, it fired back up after 15 minutes and took me another mile or so and went completely out. The led inside would not illuminate when it finally went out also.

[CraigArizona85248]

Jim,

When I have had ignition questions, I call PowerArc directly.  I believe it's a very small shop because I've only talke to one guy on a couple different phone calls and he could answer every question I had.  He was very helpful.  Sorry... I don't remember his name.

If you need to warrenty the item, I'd call Perry.  Last time I ordered a PowerArc ignition from him he asked me if my old one was still under warrenty and I told him no way... I had bought it 4 years before and had put almost 50K miles on it.  Perry can handle the warrenty if it applies to your situation.  I would think it would since you've only been running the module for what... 2 months?  You bought the complete kit, ignition, wires and coils.  So there shouldn't be a problem with anything being mismatched.

As far as checking it out myself... I'd start with timing to make sure the module or the distributor didn't loosen up and rotate, pull the module and check the pins to in the rotor.  The pins are what trigger the photo sensors on the bottom of the module.  I glued my pins into the rotor to make sure they didn't come loose.

-Craig

[04customking]

Well, I got lucky. After examining this thing I found where I pinched a wire on the ignition. I ran the small harness from the module thru the terminal block behind the coil for neatness. I didn't notice that it pinched on two of the terminal screws when the cover was put on. I repaired the wire, the power wire to the module, and luckily had a good spark when done. Runs great again. Stupid error on my part.

[CO-retired]

Does the power arc work and set up the same as the e beyond 2000?

[CraigArizona85248]

Nope.  The PowerArc is a totally different type of ignition.  The ebeyond is more like a electronically triggered points ignition.  It uses the OEM coil, OEM timer (distributor), etc.  The PowerArc is a solid state electronic ignition that requires different coils (designed for an electronic module) and a special distributor body made to accept the electronic module.

The nice thing about the ebeyond system is it looks completely stock.  Once you put the cover on the timer you can't tell the difference.  Not the case with the PowerArc.  But what you get with the PowerArc are the following:

1) Electronic automatic advance
2) Adjustable rev limiter
3) 3 sparks during every compression stroke
4) Coil saturation control that varies based on RPM
5) Single-fire or dual-fire operation (OEM is dual-fire)

You basically get a modern ignition like you'd find in a TC motor for your panhead.

-Craig

[CO-retired]

Oh fer Gawds sake....if I'da known that I wudda got one!!!!!Can ya gimme a link or someway to get in touch with 'em?

[CraigArizona85248]

The PowerArc CDR that Jim posted about above is no longer made.  They have replaced it with a new unit called the IDS C2.  You can probably still get the CDR from FloHeadworks in Oceano CA.  Perry has some sort of deal with PowerArc to still get the old CDR.  You can get the number for Flo at the website http://www.floheadworks.com.

The new PowerArc IDS C2 is a pretty sweet unit too.  I've been exchanging email with Gary at PowerArc in the last week about it.  I have a few concerns about kick starting with the IDS C2 and getting the advance curve setup correctly for dual plugged heads (less total advance).  They have a fully user programable version of the C2 called the CP2.  I might try one of these out to see how it works.  Should be able to setup things the way I want with the programable version.

By the way... plan on spending a lot more $$$ for a fully electronic module then you spend on the ebeyond.  Not only is the ignition more expensive, but you also need the special distributor from spyke to make it work.

-Craig

[04customking]

Since this thread is still going on I'll update. I "had" the bike running after the last post and it ran pretty good but I figured I had to get the timing back to where it was. The next time I tried to start it, it didn't want to but I eventually got it going but didn't run very good at all. Shut it down and tried the next day and it wouldn't go. Pulled the plugs, grounded them and kicked it repeatedly. Eratic spark on the rear cyl. and nothing on the front. I took Craig's advice and called Gary at Power Arc. Very friendly and helpfull. I explained everything and what I did before. I even sent the pic I posted above so he could see it. I sent him everything to check out. Module, rotor, coil, and wires. Should be there today and he'll call me and we'll figure things out. If it's shot, I'll have to talk to him about the new set-up. Craig, what does Gary say about the kick start issue? I don't have dual plugs so that isn't a concern. I'll have to ask him if they set it up for the bike or I would have to.

[CraigArizona85248]

Jim,

Gary says the IDS C2 will kickstart with no trouble at all.  It fires the first time it sees TDC of the front cylinder, then fires at 10 degrees BTDC on the rear cylinder, then begins to use it's normal advance curve programming.  NOW... The CDR is a bit different.  It fires at 10 degrees BTDC of either the front or rear cylinder.  That's nice because you can start off either cylinder.  With the new IDS C2 you must start off the front cylinder since the module has to see TDC on the front to fire.  Sorry... this might seem confusing but if you analyze the trigger mechanism it's easy to see why there is this requirement.  I'm a firmware programmer by profession so I'm very familiar with how computers read these types of trigger devices and this ignition is basically a very small computer.  So figuring out how they have setup the trigger logic wasn't too difficult for me.

After spending a few hours thinking about all potential "snafoos" I'm confident that this is a well thought out system and I'm just waiting to hear a price quote from Gary for a IDC CP2 + 2 coils + wires + programming cable.  I want to try the programable module so that I can make adjustments to the timing curves to work best with my dual plugged heads.

-Craig

[CO-retired]

 :gob:uuuuum sounds innerestin but probobly a little pricey.
I've got a 2 pc. spyke ignition housing,cant remember off hand where I got it from but it's in real nice shape.
Does this power arc require reverse rotation gears?


I got my e beyond unit dead on....started the pan tonight and OHHHHH what music to my ears with them 42" straight pipes on 'er!!! (course I put the old bolt trick with a washer mounted center of the bolt to slow down the reversion thing a bit)

[CraigArizona85248]

The PowerArc ignitions don't require reverse gears.  They can be used with the rotor spinning in either direction.  It's a very flexible ignition system, but as you noted it's pricey.  Since you already have a Spyke "distributor" that will save a bunch.

-Craig

[CO-retired]

Craig...can you or anyone for that matter supply me with an E-mail addy to this company with out having to go through Perry(flo-headworks)?.

[CraigArizona85248]

www.powerarc.com  Go to the "Contact Us" link and you can send an email.

[Pzokes]

I've been using a Power-Arc on my 100" Fatso motor since 2005 with no problems.  I did buy the complete package with coil and ignition wires.  I run a VOES switch too.

[CO-retired]

OK....are ther other electronic ignition sytems that work OK in a spyke 2 pc. breaker assembly(distributor type of thingie) besides the power arc?

I used a Crane HI-2 single fire unit in my shovel,let me add also that My shovel has 2 plugs per cylinder......I had a sputhe kidney cone that allows the use of damn near any ignition system out there!!......The problem with the crane HI-2 set up is that it required an advancer unit with springs....................I dont believe this set up can be used with springs in a spyke 2 pc. dist. unit

I want to get away from the kidney cone and go with the traditional looks of a finned or slabside cam gear cover

[CraigArizona85248]

The only ignitions I know of that can deal with the reverse rotation of the rotor in a spyke distributor are the PowerArc models.  There may be others out there that don't care about reverse rotation, but I don't know about them.  An option is to use reverse gears so that the rotor turns counter-clockwise like on a cone motor.  Then you can use any of the cone ignition modules.

You are correct, the mechanical advance system (weights) won't work in the Spyke distributor.

-Craig

[Pzokes]

The electronic ignition that Spyke sells for their two piece distributor is a "rebranded" PowerArc.

With a PowerArc, you don't need dual plugs on a Pan or Shovel.  The extra sparks hit the partially burned gasses on the backside of the domed piston as the piston is traveling down on the power stroke giving you a clean burn.

PowerArc also has a great sales demonstration, on their website, of what happens with a Hall effect system vs. the PowerArc light trigger.

I talked to the Crane Techs in Daytona a few years ago about their fully electronic multi-spark system.  They claimed that it could be timed in reverse to work on a Pan.  I never got around to buying one to try it.  I don't know the status of those electronic ignitions since S&S bought the rights.

 

[CO-retired]

Sounds like a helluva unit ...that Power arc!! I spoke to Gary there today,Told 'em that I had one of them 2 pc. spyke points breakers that I wanted to use with his Unit....he said send it to me and he would re-machine the total inside depth...Top to bottom,Only about .080 difference so the unit would sit inside Proper.
I want to use this ignition in my 93" slabside shovel mainly to get away from the sputhe kidney cone cam gear cover that I've had on 'er for the past 9 years.

I look forward to getting back that classic look of the 66-69 shovels...................They are truly unique among all the harley motors.

The heads are dual plugged....................................Gary didnt try to talk me out of giving up dual plugs,rather he encouraged me to stay with them...with single fire Ignition

[Pzokes]

Yeah, it's good to run with dual plugs, but if you didn't have them, the system would still work great.

I encourage anyone that is buying the PowerArc, to buy the whole system: ignition, wires, and coil.  The wrong coils and wrong wires cause a lot of problems on any electronic ignition, including OEM Harley.

The reason that a PowerArc is able to run backward easily, is because there are pins on the trigger plate that trip the light source.  The pins are just moved to different holes on the plate.

[04customking]

I talked to Gary today too. I wanted to check on my stuff that I sent. He got it, but he said a storm came through and I believe he said his roof looks like a VW went through it. Said they had near 100 mile flat winds there. Then he goes and falls through the roof flat on his back. Says he's in alot of pain but he's ok. He was doing some stuff today. Great guy to talk to. He'll talk as long as you want or need. I have to call him again early next week.