S&S B2 Head Info

[Ohio HD]

Hoping that someone may have some info I'm looking for regarding S&S B2 heads.

What I do know is the intake valve is 2.200", and the exhaust is 1.800". So I don't know much.

(1) What I would like to find out is what are the valve stem angles in the head?
(2) As delivered from S&S, what is the space from intake valve to exhaust valve with the valves closed?
(3) What is the distance from both intake and exhaust valves lowest point to the head gasket surface?

From that info I can build a virtual head for Engine Analyzer Pro.

[jam65]

Are you still looking for these measurements?

[Ohio HD]

Yes sir. Any that you may have I'll take and use to build the virtual B2 heads.

[jam65]

Sorry for the late response. I measure.258 valve to valve. .140 intake lowest point to base and .087 exhaust lowest point to base gasket. I do not have the tools for measuring valve angle with the springs being installed.
 Just curious what type of performance are you looking to get out of the B2's?

[Ohio HD]

No problem at all. I'm just happy to get some data for the B2's. I suspect the valve angle is shallower than the OEM HD heads, but I'm just guessing. I'm basing that guess from the valve to valve measurement. Those valves are large and to keep from having valve clash is why I suspect a slightly shallower valve angle. Or it's possible that those heads can tolerate the valves being sunk if needed. If you have a way to measure angle from the head gasket surface to the head of the valve that would work as well. I can reach out to S&S and see if they'll answer me.

Right now I'm just in a planning and experimenting mode. More so it's a alternate plan if what I'm putting together now doesn't meet my goals. Although I think it will.

I hope to see upper 160's or maybe a touch more with the 110 heads I have now. If I fall short of that by too much, I plan to go back in with a lot more air flow and also would need to build my own exhaust from Burns parts.

I appreciate the info on the B2's.

[jam65]

I currently have a set of Larry's Motorcycle and Machine 110 heads on my 117 and Stroker JLK said they made 149/158@ 13.50 comp. But Larry has made better strides with those 110 heads since I had mine done from him.
 These are Baisley prepped B2's that I have had for a while and still haven't pulled the trigger on a 124 build yet. Just titanium valves and PSI springs with some better port work done.

[Ohio HD]

That's making some good power from a 117" TC motor. Curious what cams you're running with the 13.50 compression. I know that Larry has sent out some killer heads, several sheets posted here with his work.
Those B2's you have should be big power producers I would think. Just with what I've been looking at, a 124" with B2's can put out some big numbers. I would think the 180's for HP is possible. Meaning a street motor. Race builds probably more. 

I'll be running 12.60 compression with a 124", and 10.1 corrected compression. I expect it should make me happy, but I always like a plan 'B' in the works.

[Ohio HD]

The layout based on the numbers above should clear valve to valve based on 110 head valve angles, exhaust 30° and intake 26°. The valve to valve based on these values and the Leineweber cams I'm using shows 0.066" valve to valve.

I'll reach out to S&S and see about the angles.

[JSD]

George Brice on tech talk Tuesday had a gig on the B2 awhile back talking valves and bore size needed . 4.125 bore was needed . May be worth a look on Utube. 

[Ohio HD]

S&S sent me the installed valve angles for the B2.

The angles are 27 degrees for intake and 23.75 degrees for exhaust.

[turboprop]

That's making some good power from a 117" TC motor. Curious what cams you're running with the 13.50 compression. I know that Larry has sent out some killer heads, several sheets posted here with his work.
Those B2's you have should be big power producers I would think. Just with what I've been looking at, a 124" with B2's can put out some big numbers. I would think the 180's for HP is possible. Meaning a street motor. Race builds probably more. 

I'll be running 12.60 compression with a 124", and 10.1 corrected compression. I expect it should make me happy, but I always like a plan 'B' in the works.

Back in the day, Mike Roberts (AHDRA S&S Challenge Racer) made pretty around 180 with his TC124with B2 heads and a single carb. I think the class rules restricted racers to using one or two specific S&S cams. I would not think that engine would do well in a bagger or on the street, but fuel injection is a game changer. Would love to see that engine brought back with a Max ECU injection system.

[Ohio HD]

Back in the day, Mike Roberts (AHDRA S&S Challenge Racer) made pretty around 180 with his TC124with B2 heads and a single carb. I think the class rules restricted racers to using one or two specific S&S cams. I would not think that engine would do well in a bagger or on the street, but fuel injection is a game changer. Would love to see that engine brought back with a Max ECU injection system.

Yeah that would be a big assist I think with the Maxxecu system. I know that hrdtail78 has used it with some of his projects.

I also agree that the line between street friendly and not is a thin line. That was a part of my plan, stay in the street safe zone, but right at the edge of the line.

[Ohio HD]

jam65, if you don't mind, could you measure from the head gasket surface to the lower rocker cover surface?

No rush, just when you get time.

[jam65]

I measure 3.990 from cylinder head base to the rocker box mating surface. These B'2 heads have been worked to run the S&S 675 that I currently have at a more friendly 12.00:1. I wanted to get the performance but be street strip compliant on pump gas.Using Dan's FLPP with his 1.75 custom roller rocker. My bike is a 2007 FXDL Low Rider. Maybe some day soon I will get the bigger crank installed and do the 124".

[Ohio HD]

That sounds right, I had always heard they're 0.250" taller than OEM HD heads. HD heads are 3.750", and I think Larry said the SE heads are about 0.025" less, or 3.725". Thank you for measuring. He may have skimmed the head gasket surface a bit to even the heads out.

Yeah I think the best option for high compression and the B2 heads is an S&S cam with easy starts. I have no personal experience with the S&S electric compression releases. I know that turboprop does, and I seem to remember him not being fond of them.

My opinion on the crank is maybe have Dark Horse build one. I've heard a few guys have had issues with S&S cranks. The rod bearings from what I hear are causing lockup issues. I have a DH in my current 124", and a DH in the new 124" that's going together.

Also, just thinking, the 124" cylinders are taller than the 117" cylinders. I assume you're running S&S cylinders. The S&S 117" cylinders are 4.878" tall, and their 124" cylinders are either 5.004" or 5.013". They have two lengths for the 124". Both these being HD bolt pattern.
 

[jam65]

I am currently running Axtell cylinders on the 117" and S&S cylinders with the proposed 124". Last time I checked Dark Horse, they did not have product to build a 124" crank " Man O' War." Still don't and I just checked. I want John to build me a crankshaft as opposed to S&S since he did the crank work on my current 117" and I am happy with that. The only sticking point with me is that his compensator will not work with the easy start S&S cam that I have. Maybe a Tman 662-2? But then I will obviously have to machine in the comp. releases to these heads. Issues and more issues.

[Ohio HD]

I know that I waited about six months after I placed the order for the last Man O War crank. Mainly at that time it was a shortage of Carrillo rods. I finally went with the DH competition rods. Andrew assured me they would hold up under heavy HP and hard running. He said that Trask always has them use their competition rods for their turbo builds.

I think the SE compensator will hold up pretty well as long as the springs are new and shimmed as they should be. I've been running a first generation SE compensator for about 40k miles. I do however have the oiler system that Steve @ GMR Performance designed and made for the SE compensators. The newer compensators with the proper outer primary cover or the oil tray that HD supplies to use, they get enough lubrication. 

I think this is an S&S release that turboprop setup near the spark plug. Much like a manual release. He could elaborate about these if he sees this.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,108416.msg1290731.html#msg1290731

[Hilly13]

Crosses S&S crank off wish list, jots in Darkhourse.....I haven't heard of one going bad over here but you planted doubt Ohio!

[turboprop]

Yeah I think the best option for high compression and the B2 heads is an S&S cam with easy starts. I have no personal experience with the S&S electric compression releases. I know that turboprop does, and I seem to remember him not being fond of them.

Not a fan of S&S compression releases. Love their EZ-Start cams.

[turboprop]

I am currently running Axtell cylinders on the 117" and S&S cylinders with the proposed 124". Last time I checked Dark Horse, they did not have product to build a 124" crank " Man O' War." Still don't and I just checked. I want John to build me a crankshaft as opposed to S&S since he did the crank work on my current 117" and I am happy with that. The only sticking point with me is that his compensator will not work with the easy start S&S cam that I have. Maybe a Tman 662-2? But then I will obviously have to machine in the comp. releases to these heads. Issues and more issues.

The cams are on the other side of the engine and have nothing to do with the engine main shaft.

Please explain how EZ start cams are not compatible with a compensator?

[Ohio HD]

Please explain how EZ start cams are not compatible with a compensator?

I said the exact same thing about six months ago. And was then shown this from the Dark Horse web site. I'm still not sure that I fully understand how the difference in compensator causes this. But I also don't think John would have that on the site if there weren't something to it.

Go to the bottom of the page and read under: 'Balanced & Bulletproof'


https://darkhorsemoco.com/man-o-war-motor-products

[Ohio HD]

Crosses S&S crank off wish list, jots in Darkhourse.....I haven't heard of one going bad over here but you planted doubt Ohio!

There are a few guys that have posted here that have had some issues with S&S rod bearings, or maybe how they're fit. When I was seeking a new crank and the Carrillo rods were unavailable, I had spoken to Stan at Gardner Racing, he said the same about the rod bearings being an issue.

But it's like anything else, not every crank will have an issue. Things like this just stick in my head and I stay leery of an item. 

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,101183.msg1437249.html#msg1437249

[turboprop]

Please explain how EZ start cams are not compatible with a compensator?

I said the exact same thing about six months ago. And was then shown this from the Dark Horse web site. I'm still not sure that I fully understand how the difference in compensator causes this. But I also don't think John would have that on the site if there weren't something to it.

Go to the bottom of the page and read under: 'Balanced & Bulletproof'


https://darkhorsemoco.com/man-o-war-motor-products

Ok, so not incompatible, but a few users have reported issues and they now have a disclaimer. I would call John and get the full story over the phone before ruling out the EZ's.

[Admiral Akbar]

I'd talk to John.  I bet the issue stems from milder builds..