Roller Rocker arms hitting valve springs

[RomeoTango]

I am in the process of adding billet rocker supports and S&S roller rockers to my 124 build.

Problem I am running into is the arm of the rocker is hitting at least a couple (maybe 3) of the valve springs. The middle of the arm is touching the edge of the spring and the tip cannot touch the valve.

I have Vulcanworks billet supports and S&S 900-4065A roller rockers. In addition to being marked F and R, the rockers are also marked 1 EB and 2 EB. I don't recall this letter/number referenced in the directions (and I've thrown them out). I do not have both #1's and both #2's in the same rocker support (1 each).

Might I have the rockers installed in the wrong positions?

I note that S&S also sells the 900-4098A roller rockers. Says they come in stock and 1.725 ratio, but I only see the higher ratio. Both part numbers came up as fitting (2014 FLHX).

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[Ohio HD]

I would ask who ever worked on the heads what the valve protrusion is. They may have sunk the valves enough that a shorter valve should be used. Just a quick stab, as I've never had any issues with the rockers hitting the valve spring retainer.

[RomeoTango]

Thanks. I'll certainly ask.

I probably should have added that the stock support and rocker arms fit fine. I would then expect that the new parts would as well since they are essentially direct replacements.

[Ohio HD]

I wouldn't call the roller rockers a direct replacement. They're a performance part that isn't exactly the same dimensions as the OEM. Stands to reason they should fit.

Have you tried the OEM rockers with the Vulcan supports? As well try the roller rockers with the OEM support. See what parts are the problem.

[RomeoTango]

I was considering swapping around with the stock parts as you suggest.

The more I look at this, it strikes me that...the rocker arms don't look correct. On the S&S website, the arms of the rockers make an almost 90 degree down turn to the valve. The first picture in my post shows that arm taking a more gradual turn to the valve. Maybe its just me.

S&S 900-4065A

[Ohio HD]

Here's an S&S 1.625 rocker from a 117" I'm in the process of tearing down for rebuild.


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[RomeoTango]

Hmmm. Arm angle looks similar. Mine are not etched with the part number though.

[JSD]

I have vulcan plate & S&S RR no issues . Not sure on S&S part no.

[Ohio HD]

Hmmm. Arm angle looks similar. Mine are not etched with the part number though.

These are maybe five years old I'm told. That's when the guy had the motor built. They may have changed the way they mark them.

I've been using the R&R Cycles roller rockers in my own stuff. Simply because they are slightly less $$ and I like to spread money around to other shops a little.

[Ohio HD]

I'll ask one dumb question. You do have a gasket under the rocker support?

[RomeoTango]

Gasket = yes. I would've asked me too. 

[No Cents]

Gasket = yes. I would've asked me too. 

what gasket are you using under your rocker arm supports?
I've never used a gasket under the rocker arm supports before...nor ever seen one used.    An o-ring...yes...but never a gasket.

[RomeoTango]

Believe we mean the rocker housing...

[RomeoTango]

This morning I swapped arms around between stock supports-Vulcan, and stock arms-rollers.

The stock arms seem to fit fine in the Vulcan support. See pic below.

The shaft on the stock support was very difficult to remove, and was not sliding back in easily either. No pic, but if the roller fits the stock support it's very close to the spring.

Without part number markings I'll call S&S tomorrow to confirm the parts and fit.

I'll also call Vulcan to see if this has been brought up to them. Maybe they are familiar.

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[RomeoTango]

Pics of the S&S roller rocker.
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[SP33DY]

Where is the roller sweep pattern on your valve tip?

You may need to use different rocker arm supports or different rocker arms to get the sweep right. Axtell used to have a tech article on their site that explains setting up your rocker arms.

Wood sells a rocker arm support that moves the arm -0.030".

Delkron used to have supports that moved the arm +0.030" and +0.060". I used to stock the Delkrons but they're all long gone now. If you find a set of these you have to also pay attention to the pushrod clearance at the top of the pushrod tube.

Maybe someone on the forum knows of someone else that is making them, or someone who has some if that's what you need.

Or you may need a set of Baisley roller rocker arms.  Baisley has a tool (Baisley # PS-1001 or from Zippers # 726-001) that you can use to collect the measurements he needs to have him make a set of "corrected geometry" roller rocker arms.

[wfolarry]

Easiest way would be to put different springs on there.

[Ohio HD]

Where is the roller sweep pattern on your valve tip?

You may need to use different rocker arm supports or different rocker arms to get the sweep right. Axtell used to have a tech article on their site that explains setting up your rocker arms.

Wood sells a rocker arm support that moves the arm -0.030".

Delkron used to have supports that moved the arm +0.030" and +0.060". I used to stock the Delkrons but they're all long gone now. If you find a set of these you have to also pay attention to the pushrod clearance at the top of the pushrod tube.

Maybe someone on the forum knows of someone else that is making them, or someone who has some if that's what you need.

Or you may need a set of Baisley roller rocker arms.  Baisley has a tool (Baisley # PS-1001 or from Zippers # 726-001) that you can use to collect the measurements he needs to have him make a set of "corrected geometry" roller rocker arms.

Mr. Wood has 0.30" rocker supports.

https://woodcarbs.com/performance-add-ons/rocker-arm-support/

[jsachs1]

FWIW. Typical STOCK valve protrusion: S&S HEADS : 2.050" intake, and exhaust.
      Typical STOCK valve protrusion: FACTORY HEADS, 5/16" valve stems. 1.995" - 2.005" in and ex.
      Typical STOCK valve protrusion: FACTORY HEADS, 7 mm valve stems: 2.040" in. and ex.
John

[JSD]

My  motor is 01 bee hive comp cam springs. & the roller to valve tip contact is centre . When i fitted Vulcan support i pulled it toward cam and tightened. I will try and find S&S part no. 1 no. Saved on photo 900-4065FA seems the same no.

[kd]

If you are not using Rocker lockers (my shafts are anchored in the rocker stand bosses with grub screws from underneath) you should be able to position the rocker stands to maximize pushrod clearance and rocker contact on the valve tip.  With the fasteners just snug, they can, with patience, be finessed into the best location and torqued down there.  you can manually slow roll the engine and inspect all clearances and contact points easily.   

[SP33DY]

Easiest way would be to put different springs on there.

That's the truth! You can probably get the spring force you need from a good set of beehives. Sometimes I forget to use the flyswatter instead of the sledgehammer!

[RomeoTango]

I wouldn't call the roller rockers a direct replacement. They're a performance part that isn't exactly the same dimensions as the OEM. Stands to reason they should fit.

Thanks for all the replies - I'll need to study most of them. I keep coming back around to the fact that the stock supports and rocker arms fit. No modifications. I thought it would just be an easy parts swap.

I put one stock arm in on the front intake with the billet support. Where the roller would hit the retainer, the stock arm did not. Makes me think its the roller arm. Does the clearance on the stock arm pic below look correct? Tried S&S several times today, and left a message, but could not speak with a tech. Will try again tomorrow.

Should I ditch the roller idea and stick to the stockers (keeping the billet supports)? So much opinion on the topic.
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[Ohio HD]

I have some R&R Cycles 1.625 and 1.725 rockers here. This photo is of a 1.625 ratio. I'll try to find time tomorrow to place an R&R and an S&S on the same rocker shaft to align them. Then place both rollers on a common surface and see if there's any obvious difference in the arc of the roller arm.

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[Coff 06]

So is putting a relief in the rocker out of the question ?
Just a thought.Might be a stupid idea,then maybe not. 
        Coff  06