Vibration (Buzz) at certain RPM

[perk_dp]

2011 Road King - Stock - 96 - Six Speed 
After installing the SE Compensator upgrade, I have a vibration (Buzz) at certain RPMs. 
I don't have a tach so I'm not sure about the RPM ranges but happens in any gear just about shift time. 
If cruising at 70 mph in 6th, it's smooth until an incline where speed drops off. 
Buzz\Vibration 60ish to 70 bad at 65. 

My questions are; (1) are the springs in the SE Compensator strong enough that it is transferring the crankshaft vibrations\harmonics through the drive train?   (2) is there an "alignment mark" on the SE Compensator that is supposed to match up with something?  if so, it was never mentioned in the install instructions

[Tacocaster]

So, no vibration(s) before the upgrade to the new SE Comp? No wonder you think that upgrade has something to do with the issue, yes.

1. Many of us have installed the newer SE Comp without this result so I doubt the spring strength is the culprit but I have to wonder if you got the orientation of the springs correct. The instructions can be misleading to some if not careful. Further, there is a thread or two here in HTT regarding the spring stack height and how to measure it. Additional springs are available from HD to meet that requirement.
2. There is no specific alignment marks for a SE Comp installation but setting the retaining bolt to proper torque is critical. Adjustment of your Primary Chain is also certainly something you should be aware of, especially if you upgraded to the newer OEM Chain adjuster.

Assume your riding technique has not changed, has it? I mean, you're not extending the RPM range to a higher shift point more than before. Where it's not mentioned, it's probably a stupid question because I should assume no, but I ask anyway.

[perk_dp]

1.   I went back in and double checked the spring stack against the install instructions, and unless I'm extremely dense ,  the spring stack is correct.     I also measured the chain alignment per instructions I found in the shop manual. 

2.  The bolt was torqued per the install instructions.  And the primary chain tensioner is Harley's stock automatic tensioner.

3.  I don't believe I've changed riding style.  But if so it would be shifting and cruising at higher rpms to get through the vibration zones. 

[Coyote]

Did you R&R the exhaust for any reason?

[perk_dp]

I have only removed the slip-ons to change rear tire 

[Tacocaster]

"Changed rear tire"...New tire? Balanced?
The plot thickens.....

[perk_dp]

yep,  new tire, balanced.  new bearings. belt adjusted.  tire straight (axle measured on both ends)


i'll add;     running stock pipes with V&H slash down slip-ons.  stock air cleaner.
               power commander 5  with  M15-011-009.pvm   (2010-2013 Harley Davidson Touring model, Stock 2 into 2 exhaust, Stock air filter, Stock ECM)

[Hossamania]

Might as well double check exhaust mounts, check for anything else that may have a chance to be out of place. Exhaust is always a strong suspect when dealing with vibration. It seems doubtful that the compensator itself is causing the issue, unless it is severely out of balance due to a manufacturing defect.
Have you pulled the primary cover to check runout on the comp and clutch basket? Maybe something will show there. Tight spot on the chain?

[perk_dp]

i've checked and re-checked exhaust mounting can't find anything out of place / touching frame. 
i've not checked the runout.     didn't notice any tight spots in the chain. 

[JSD]

Clutch hub nut loose ?

[Fugawee]

Besides all that was previously mentioned, just gonna' throw out a few things here that have caused Me some Vibration Issues in the past that drove Me nuts....

Loose Engine Mounting Bolts.
Loose Tranny Mounting Bolts.
Loose Shock Mounting Bolts.
Loose Saddlebags Latches.
Loose Saddlebag Mounting Hardware, and Support Arms.
Loose Crash Bar.
Loose Rider and Passenger Footboards/Pegs and Mounts.
Loose Kickstand Mounting Bolts.
Loose Detachable Whatever's.
Loose Front-End Stem Nut and Pinch Bolts.
Loose Handlebar Risers, and Mounting Caps.
Front/Rear Wheel Balance Weights missing.

All of the above Issues (as well as a few more) were found on Various Years and Models of H-D's...and mostly after I did some type of Upgrade or Modification.
I would drive Myself berserk trying to find out where it was coming from and would repeatedly go back and look at what I had recently upgraded.
The majority of the time the problem had nothing at all to do with what I had worked on.

Do You feel the Vibration in Your Arms?  Or all thru-out You when Riding?
Does the Handling, Shifting, and Braking appear to be the same as it was prior to the SE Compensator?

[perk_dp]

Fugawee -- I like your list!      I've gone over most those items and found nothing. But will go back over it. 
I feel the vibration in the floorboards and seat (kind of all over).  And strong on my ankle when I put it against the shifter shaft.
All the handling, braking, shifting feel the same as before. 

JSD -- I went back into the primary cover and checked the Torque on both the Compensator Bolt and Clutch Basket. 
          As well as the chain alignment, tension and tensioner while in there.      All were at spec.  

[Fugawee]

When the Rear Tire was replaced...was the Rear Pulley and Brake Rotor On or Off when the Wheel/Tire was balanced?

[motorhogman]

01 FLHT. Chased a vibration all over the place.. Turned out to be the rear bumper cracked and broke where it attaches to the fender strut.. Vibration was every where, especially bad in the bars and foot boards.

[Hossamania]

01 FLHT. Chased a vibration all over the place.. Turned out to be the rear bumper cracked and broke where it attaches to the fender strut.. Vibration was every where, especially bad in the bars and foot boards.

Good call, I forgot about that one, and I replaced mine too.

[Fugawee]

I just went thru that about a month ago on My 94' FLHTC.
The Left Side was cracked down at the Saddlebag and Bumper Support Bracket.

[perk_dp]

thanks for all the feedback. 

both tires balanced with brake rotor(s) on.  belt sprocket off. 

I'll also check the rear fender/Saddlebag/Bumper Support Bracket.

Motor -- I found my points and condenser.      On a shelf.  Way in the back.   

[Fugawee]

Just a couple of comments here...and maybe a suggestion.

I have used the same Tire Guy for Routine Tire Changes since 1985.
A couple of times while on the Road I had no choice but to go to an HD Dealer due to a Flat Rear Tire.
All of those times My Rear Wheel was balanced with the Rear Belt Pulley, and the Brake Rotor mounted.
Same thing with the Rotor(s) installed if it was the Front.
One time I brought the Rear Wheel to the Tire Guy minus the Pulley and Rotor and He told Me to go Home and bring them back so He could balance the Wheel properly.
I'm not 100% sure what is right or wrong there.
I prefer to have them balanced with all Parts mounted to the Wheel.
And I have never had an issue with the Wheel not being balanced correctly by both the Tire Guy, and the Dealer balancing with those Parts mounted on the Wheel(s).
I will have to assume that You re-installed Your Belt Pulley.
Is there a possible chance that the Pulley may not be seated correctly on the Wheel?
In other words...a little "cocked", so to speak?
Causing the Belt to not ride evenly.
Is the Belt too tight?
Is there a possible chance that One or more of the Pulley Mounting Bolts are not Tight, and/or maybe Torqued in-correctly?

How many Miles are on the Bike?
What type of Wheels?  Spokes? Stock? etc.

[roadkingdresser]

Had a saddlebag not in the latch on the inside,drove me crazy till I found it. Also the rubber insert for the exhaust may need replaced.

[Fugawee]

Along the Saddlebag Line...
A few years ago, a Buddy of Mine bought a Used 12' FLHRK from a Private Seller.
Nice Bike, Well Maintained...except for One Minor Issue.
On the Ride home with His New Toy He felt a Vibration and heard something Rat-a-tat-tatting.
Uh-oh...WTF?
After getting Home and checking out all the Usual Suspects...the Right-Side Saddlebag was missing the Two Half Round Rubber Cushions that mount under the Bag and sit on the Rail.
He replaced them and all was well.  No more Vibration...No more Noise.
Where they went?  Who knows.
Sometimes the Stupidest things will drive You Nuts.
Cheap Fix.

[perk_dp]

All good suggestions Fugawee.   My bike has about 26,000 miles on it. 
On the tires;  I mounted and balanced them myself on Stock/Mag rims. Though a bit of a pain, I balanced with the Belt Sprocket and Rotor in place. And used a mark on the sprocket and wheel to keep aligned during re-install.    Belt adjustment is in spec.  I even bought the little measuring tool to check it with. 

[Fugawee]

The Exhaust System was previously mentioned...how about Heat Shields?
Or a Loose/Broken Baffle inside the Muffler(s)?
Other than that...I'm at a loss presently.
If I can get My Brain to vibrate...I will try to offer some more.
Someone else here may come up with the culprit.

[motorhogman]

In regard to balancing tires, I haven't balanced a tire in years. I use Ride ON.  Granted I don't run 100 mph for long distances but 75 to 80 on occasion. 0 vibration or tire balance symptoms. Friend of mine with fancy big $$$$ wheels uses Beads.. Same result.. Smooth. For those who follow Kevin Baxter's Garage he also uses Beads on nice wheels.

[Hossamania]

It doesn't sound like balancing issue, it seems an rpm issue.

[Fugawee]

I'm stumped...
No Problem with Vibration/Noise until the SE Upgrade?

I think that it is either an RPM Issue due to something with the New SE Compensator, but Perk says that He has checked it a few times and it appears OK.
Or a Balancing Issue.

It was stated that the Rear Tire was Replaced, New Bearings, etc. and Balanced.
One Post says that it was balanced without the Rear Pulley mounted, which is what lead Me to wonder about a Balancing Issue, and another says it was balanced with the Pulley on.
OK...maybe no Balancing Issue.

The Mufflers had to be removed in order to replace the Rear Wheel/Tire, as well as the Saddlebags which I will assume were removed for that whole operation.
That is what lead Me to Exhaust System and the Saddlebags themselves, as well as any and all Mounting Hardware.

I don't know...but I think that at this point in time if it doesn't prove to be anything stupid with all the fore mentioned suggestions by All, that I would be going once again back into the Primary Area and checking it all out again.
The SE Compensator, Clutch Hub Nut, Chain/Adjuster, Inner Primary for tightness, etc.
And also, the Tranny Shifter Arms behind the Inner Primary and the one Up Front, and the Foot Shift Lever(s) themselves.
And the Starter Mounting Bolts going into the Inner Primary.

[perk_dp]

Clarification;  I balanced without the belt sprocket, then with.  Adding the sprocket didn't not throw off balance. 
There is a minor amount of "free play" on the shifter arm on the inner primary (rear one, on the shift forks).  I plan to replace the bolt in it to prevent an "on the road fail".  Maybe,,,  that will be the culprit.   The rest of the shift mechanisms seem to be good. 
Haven't considered \ checked the starter mounting.    Will check that too. 

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.    I'm beginning to think it's all in my head  

[Fugawee]

Ha-ha!  It could very well be.  That's a relatively cheap fix.

If You are planning to replace the Stock OEM Bolt on the Tranny Arm off of the Shaft...I would suggest changing to a Hex Head Bolt that You can put a Socket on and tighten it up better than You can with the Stock Allen Bolt that's in there.
I stripped the Head of an Allen way back when, and it was a Major Project just to take care of that.

[JSD]

"Changed rear tire"...New tire? Balanced?
The plot thickens.....

He said at RPM in all gears not MPH

[Tacocaster]

"If cruising at 70 mph in 6th, it's smooth until an incline where speed drops off.
Buzz\Vibration 60ish to 70 bad at 65."

JSD: I had to re-read 1st post as I know I'm getting on, but thanks for checking me.

[Hossamania]

I may have misunderstood the rpm when this is happening. When stated that it happens when it's about time to shift, I was assuming higher rpm before upshifting, but that statement of speed dropping means rpm when it's time to downshift, not upshift. This might almost be a normal condition, as the motor is starting to lug. What are the riding conditions when this occurs? What speeds in which gears, when accelerating in a gear that might be too high, cruising with light load in the proper gear, running up to the end of a gear before upshifting?
Does it vibrate at 65 mph in 5th gear? When does it start to vibrate in 5th gear?

[chas]

When I put the comp on, I check the distance of the chain from the inner primary housing to the far side of the chain. Its around 2ins on my ultra 88. I make sure it is the same as the clutch hub assembly measurement. If the comp is a little less than the clutch you will have to shim(with washers) to the same measurement. Not sure if this would cause vibration, but the chain needs to ride straight. I would get rid of the oem automatic chain tensioner! I have heard they tighten up and cause trouble with a too tight chain! The manual adjustment is between 5/8 to 7/8". Good luck and let us know what the final solution is

[perk_dp]

I may have misunderstood the rpm when this is happening. When stated that it happens when it's about time to shift, I was assuming higher rpm before upshifting, but that statement of speed dropping means rpm when it's time to downshift, not upshift. This might almost be a normal condition, as the motor is starting to lug. 

What are the riding conditions when this occurs?   Any condition (loaded, light,  uphill,  flat) 
What speeds in which gears ?     1st = 20ish,  2nd = 30ish,   3rd = 40ish,  5th 50ish 
When accelerating in a gear that might be too high, cruising with light load in the proper gear, running up to the end of a gear before upshifting?   I may shift early since I don't like to feel like I'm "pressuring" the motor.    

Does it vibrate at 65 mph in 5th gear?    no vibration at 65 in 5th    
When does it start to vibrate in 5th gear?     in 5th the vibration starts at 50 ish then smooths about 60mph.  

   (no tach,,  rpms ??) 

[Hossamania]

You're lugging the motor in 5th gear at 50mph. But 3rd gear at 40 mph is not lugging it, it should not be vibrating from that. 4th gear at 40 mph is fine for light cruising, lugging if looking for brisk acceleration. 6th gear usually prefers at least 65 mph, 70 is better.
I see on your list that 4th gear was missing in the sequence. Are you off by a gear on the list, running 3rd at 30, not 2nd, etc?

[Hossamania]

Running the motor into the upper rpm is not "pressuring" the motor. Quite the opposite. Shifting too early puts much more strain on the motor than letting it get to its proper operating range to perform work.

[motorhogman]

Running the motor into the upper rpm is not "pressuring" the motor. Quite the opposite. Shifting too early puts much more strain on the motor than letting it get to its proper operating range to perform work.

I know a machinist that once said to me, lugging a motor is like taking a hammer to the crank shaft..

[perk_dp]

Hossamania ,  I probably didn't state those shift sequences exactly right. 

I get lugging a motor is not good for it.   And maybe lugging is somewhat "in the eye of the beholder". 
To me, the motor doesn't seem to be lugging.     
And maybe  "pressuring" the motor  I mentioned above is more about pressuring my ears.  
It just doesn't seem like I should have to cruise along at 55, 60, 70 with motor sounding like it needs to shift.   
70 - 75 in 6th seems like a nice cruise (as long as i don't start up a hill and drop below 70). 

I may need to get me a tachometer for better comparison.    

[Hossamania]

What does your manual say for recommended shift points? From what I remember of mine, I found those to be minimum speeds to upshift, regularly adding 5 mph to them. Those are under ideal conditions, flat road, light acceleration.
When you feel vibration, does it go away once you are about 5mph past those shift points?

[Hossamania]

And there may actually be a problem as far as the vibration goes.
Has anyone else ridden it to give you some feedback?

[perk_dp]

And there may actually be a problem as far as the vibration goes.
Has anyone else ridden it to give you some feedback?

I did have a buddy (long time Harley rider) ride it and didn't think anything was out of ordinary. 
But, it sure seems like something is different \ not quite right to me   

[perk_dp]

got to thinking about this thread on a ride yesterday;   folks seem to be pinning my vibration to lugging. 
would coasting downhill \ compression braking  still be considered lugging ?      i ask because the vibration is still there in the gears and rpms mentioned even on decel\downhill\compression braking 

[Fugawee]

I think that it may depend on what gear You are in when You say coasting downhill.
Are You down shifting to a Lower Gear using minimum Braking?
Do You by any chance pull the Clutch Lever in to see if the vibration goes away?
I don't own any Bikes with a 6 Speed Tranny.
But the ones that I have ridden with one I wasn't going downhill in 6th, if that is possibly what You may be doing.

[nmainehunter]

You didn't state a reason for the upgrade. Did you put the old compensator back on just to see if the comp is the culprit?

[Tacocaster]

Lugging.

I had a good buddy that lugged his all the time. He loved the "feel" of it and thought it was great and the right way to use a Harley. Can't tell a Heinz pickle nutt'n so I didn't. Just saying this to note, people and what they think is "right" are different than what you may think.

[c1tori]

I would check the motor mounts on each side of the bike.  Do the motor mount bolts rest in the center of the mound donut?  I had a vibration at certain speeds and the mounts were bad.  Even put new mounts (after market) in and the vibration changed to a different speed.  Replaced the mounts again with Glide-Pro mounts and that fixed the issue.

[perk_dp]

Thanks for the additional replies. 
fugaweee -   cruizing along with the "usual vibration" at 55 (4th gear),  start down hill,  let off throttle a bit (coasting\engine braking), stay at 55, no shift,   vibration remains.     Pull clutch and the vibration changes to the "idle shake" 

nmainehunter - i replaced the compensator to fix the "kick-back\crash-sound" at startup.  i have not put the original compensator back in to see if the vibration goes away.    i have considered doing that though.     my mind asks itself "which is worse \ more damaging the vibration or the "kick-back\crash" of weak compensator springs". 

c1tori - i have looked at the motor mounts, without removing them and they look ok.  but have considered changing them anyway. 

[Hossamania]

Have you tried loosening the motor mounts and starting the bike to let them "center" themselves?
I'm not sure if that is still a thing on your mounts, I know it was on my '01.

[perk_dp]

Hoss Man,  I don't think that's an option on my 2011 Road King.   That center mount in the front doesn't exist.  
There's a "rubber" mount that bolts to the lower frame-tube on each side. 
No top engine mount  or  alignment adjuster either. 

[JSD]

Did you find the problem ?

[Lone Ranger]

Besides all that was previously mentioned, just gonna' throw out a few things here that have caused Me some Vibration Issues in the past that drove Me nuts....

Loose Engine Mounting Bolts.
Loose Tranny Mounting Bolts.
Loose Shock Mounting Bolts.
Loose Saddlebags Latches.
Loose Saddlebag Mounting Hardware, and Support Arms.
Loose Crash Bar.
Loose Rider and Passenger Footboards/Pegs and Mounts.
Loose Kickstand Mounting Bolts.
Loose Detachable Whatever's.
Loose Front-End Stem Nut and Pinch Bolts.
Loose Handlebar Risers, and Mounting Caps.
Front/Rear Wheel Balance Weights missing.

All of the above Issues (as well as a few more) were found on Various Years and Models of H-D's...and mostly after I did some type of Upgrade or Modification.
I would drive Myself berserk trying to find out where it was coming from and would repeatedly go back and look at what I had recently upgraded.
The majority of the time the problem had nothing at all to do with what I had worked on.

Do You feel the Vibration in Your Arms?  Or all thru-out You when Riding?
Does the Handling, Shifting, and Braking appear to be the same as it was prior to the SE Compensator?

Also could be rocker arm shafts, then can get sloppy after some miles.

[perk_dp]

I've been away for a while and just now checking in on this post. 
Problem still not resolved. 
The bike handles, shifts, brakes just fine as it always has. 
I feel the vibration pretty much throughout when riding. 
When I place my ankle against the shift-lever-shaft I seem to feel the vibration strongly through that shaft. 
I have a go-pro mounted on my mirror post.   I noticed the video would get blurry at certain speeds\rpms.  Basically, you can see the vibration.  I guess that makes sense though since I seem to feel it all over the bike.  The handlebars are just transferring it to the camera. 

[nibroc]

hope you get it worked out