Time For Different Set Up

[WhipLash96]

I did a 124 on my 01 Road Glide. At the time I chose the cam, it was the correct choice, however, my riding has changed and the cam just doesn't work for me anymore. So, since I have a set of untouched twin cam heads laying around, time to send those off and get those done. Thinking of a TMan cams, headwork and different TB.


Thoughts?

[Hossamania]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

[WhipLash96]

I have a clone of a Lunati grind that wasn't available in gear drive. So I had it made. I'm using a set of SE 110 heads with stock valves but ported.

I guess there's a possibility that I could use the SE heads, but from a conversation with TMan a while back, they would prefer not to use those.

[WhipLash96]

Has anyone here used this cam? I'm wondering what you think of it and where this cam lost (loses) its lungs. By looking at the specs, I'm guessing that it runs out of air at around 5k rpms? 124 application.

Thanks

[RoadKingKohn]

They are going to ask.

What kind of bike?
How do you ride?
What do you have in it now?
What are you hoping to gain?

[turboprop]

Has anyone here used this cam? I'm wondering what you think of it and where this cam lost (loses) its lungs. By looking at the specs, I'm guessing that it runs out of air at around 5k rpms? 124 application.

Thanks

Have you considered looking in the dyno section of this forum?

[Hilly13]

Pretty much what you are thinking Whip....

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?msg=940562

[Ohio HD]

An under appreciated set of cams are the S&S 625's. They run out longer with both HP and torque. At a relatively low corrected compression of 9.6:1 this motor runs like a locomotive and is cool and quiet for a large motor.

Larry's heads are a key part of this as the exhaust is the same as used with the Tman cams and heads in the previous sheet.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,100336.0.html

[WhipLash96]

Pretty much what you are thinking Whip....

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?msg=940562

Thanks for posting this. I didn't have the time to look in the dyno section this morning. I would have to say that this dyno sheet is nice but really low in the power output aspect. JMO I'm wondering what the other build aspects were. This sheet looks like it's low on the compression side.

[WhipLash96]

An under appreciated set of cams are the S&S 625's. They run out longer with both HP and torque. At a relatively low corrected compression of 9.6:1 this motor runs like a locomotive and is cool and quiet for a large motor.

Larry's heads are a key part of this as the exhaust is the same as used with the Tman cams and heads in the previous sheet.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,100336.0.html

I looked at this cam and quickly said no to it a long time ago. Although this graph is nice,the specs of this cam are similar to what I have now. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Ohio HD]

Cams with similar specs aren't necessarily the same at all. The total combination of all of the cams specs work together, as well as the lobe shapes.

You're better off observing existing dyno sheets than judging a cam by similarity. 

[turboprop]

That S&S 625 is available with the EZ Start feature. This alone is worth making whatever adjustments to optimize the build. 

[hrdtail78]

IMO The Tman 625 is great tq and wont carry out like his 590.  Think 662-1.  The 625 vs 590 are pretty close on paper, but have significant differences in some exhaust events looking a latest cam specs. Holding on to the exhaust longer doesn't help at higher rpms.

[WhipLash96]

Cams with similar specs aren't necessarily the same at all. The total combination of all of the cams specs work together, as well as the lobe shapes.

You're better off observing existing dyno sheets than judging a cam by similarity. 

Not sure where you got that I said that they are the same? Sure,the S&S 625 differs from the cam that I have now but not enough for me to say, "I have to use that cam!" That cam just isn't what I want because it is too close to what I already have and need to get rid of. Cam specs are cam specs. They all represent the same thing. A degree here, or a degree there difference in duration, LSA or intake opening or closing events isn't going to make such a difference how they run that any honest person could say with a straight face that one runs better than the other. (With all other build parameters being the same). For what I need to do, the S&S 625 just isn't the cam I need. Dyno sheets are fun to look at and all but they have never the sole determining factor of which cam I choose. Thank You for your suggestion of cam though. it is very much appreciated.

[Ohio HD]

Cams with similar specs aren't necessarily the same at all. The total combination of all of the cams specs work together, as well as the lobe shapes.

You're better off observing existing dyno sheets than judging a cam by similarity. 

Not sure where you got that I said that they are the same? Sure,the S&S 625 differs from the cam that I have now but not enough for me to say, "I have to use that cam!" That cam just isn't what I want because it is too close to what I already have and need to get rid of. Cam specs are cam specs. They all represent the same thing. A degree here, or a degree there difference in duration, LSA or intake opening or closing events isn't going to make such a difference how they run that any honest person could say with a straight face that one runs better than the other. (With all other build parameters being the same). For what I need to do, the S&S 625 just isn't the cam I need. Dyno sheets are fun to look at and all but they have never the sole determining factor of which cam I choose. Thank You for your suggestion of cam though. it is very much appreciated.

So what does the sheet look like with your custom ground cams?

[rigidthumper]

And what is the current build lacking?

[WhipLash96]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

My goal is to have the same amount of power or a little more. I need to change where the power band comes in because the cam that I have now just isn't the right choice anymore. (Comes in WAY TOO LATE). I used to be a long distance touring rider, so when I built my 124, I went with a cam that would benefit me in the higher rpm range. But as I was in the process of actually putting together the engine, Life got pretty busy for me and I was no longer able to do those long interstate touring trips. My intention once the build was complete,I would return to that type of riding. Life hasn't really slowed down,then my dad (my main riding partner), was killed in a motorcycle accident right in front of me down in Blooming Prairie. I just got back on my bike about a month ago.

My ride, at 80 mph in 6th gear, pulls about 3050 rpms. The cam I have doesn't come on until 3300. I am not a high speed rider anymore except for an occasional fist full on country roads here in Minnesota. I do plan on returning to some long touring type trips, but without my dad with me, I am not sure about the frequency as of yet.

[WhipLash96]

Thank You KD!

[HogMike]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

My goal is to have the same amount of power or a little more. I need to change where the power band comes in because the cam that I have now just isn't the right choice anymore. (Comes in WAY TOO LATE). I used to be a long distance touring rider, so when I built my 124, I went with a cam that would benefit me in the higher rpm range. But as I was in the process of actually putting together the engine, Life got pretty busy for me and I was no longer able to do those long interstate touring trips. My intention once the build was complete,I would return to that type of riding. Life hasn't really slowed down,then my dad (my main riding partner), was killed in a motorcycle accident right in front of me down in Blooming Prairie. I just got back on my bike about a month ago.

My ride, at 80 mph in 6th gear, pulls about 3050 rpms. The cam I have doesn't come on until 3300. I am not a high speed rider anymore except for an occasional fist full on country roads here in Minnesota. I do plan on returning to some long touring type trips, but without my dad with me, I am not sure about the frequency as of yet.

When I did my 124 I was after more passing power. Got that for sure!
Unfortunately, the group I usually ride with have mostly stock late model bikes and I'm riding at their pace.
My 5th gear is their 6th. My 6th is overdrive. At 3000 rpm I'm about 85.

Depending on who's leading I'm fishing for either 4th or 5th depending on RPM (different gear ratios on the grudge box) at 55. I chose a mild cam with good torque coming on about 2200-2500 for that reason. This 900+ pound pig will still pull hard in 6th to bury the speedo. My usual RPM range is 2200-3000 90% of the time. Different strokes for different folks!

Conversely, my S&S powered EVO starts pulling hard from 4000 and up. Hits the limiter quickly. Totally different manners.

JMHO

[Hilly13]

Whip! Man that is truely horrific! My sincere condolences mate.

[WhipLash96]

What do you have now? What are your goals for the new build? Can you use your current heads and just change cams and tune?

My goal is to have the same amount of power or a little more. I need to change where the power band comes in because the cam that I have now just isn't the right choice anymore. (Comes in WAY TOO LATE). I used to be a long distance touring rider, so when I built my 124, I went with a cam that would benefit me in the higher rpm range. But as I was in the process of actually putting together the engine, Life got pretty busy for me and I was no longer able to do those long interstate touring trips. My intention once the build was complete,I would return to that type of riding. Life hasn't really slowed down,then my dad (my main riding partner), was killed in a motorcycle accident right in front of me down in Blooming Prairie. I just got back on my bike about a month ago.

My ride, at 80 mph in 6th gear, pulls about 3050 rpms. The cam I have doesn't come on until 3300. I am not a high speed rider anymore except for an occasional fist full on country roads here in Minnesota. I do plan on returning to some long touring type trips, but without my dad with me, I am not sure about the frequency as of yet.

When I did my 124 I was after more passing power. Got that for sure!
Unfortunately, the group I usually ride with have mostly stock late model bikes and I'm riding at their pace.
My 5th gear is their 6th. My 6th is overdrive. At 3000 rpm I'm about 85.

Depending on who's leading I'm fishing for either 4th or 5th depending on RPM (different gear ratios on the grudge box) at 55. I chose a mild cam with good torque coming on about 2200-2500 for that reason. This 900+ pound pig will still pull hard in 6th to bury the speedo. My usual RPM range is 2200-3000 90% of the time. Different strokes for different folks!

Conversely, my S&S powered EVO starts pulling hard from 4000 and up. Hits the limiter quickly. Totally different manners.

JMHO

I would be extremely annoyed if I had to ride around in 4th gear. Lol. I have an OD6 with first being stock gearing but then it changes. Another reason why I need to change cams is that the cam that I currently have has 60° of overlap. Combine that with long duration and gigantic intake valve, that = crappy gas mileage. I have my eye on a few grinds, all in the Tman family.

[WhipLash96]

Whip! Man that is truely horrific! My sincere condolences mate.

Thanks. I don't wish that experience upon anybody. There for a while I had real doubts that I would ever get back on the saddle.

[harpwrench]

What compression is it and what exhaust system are you running? What are the current open/close cam events int/ex?

The stock intake valve on the 110 heads isn't too big and has nothing to do with it being soft on bottom and getting bad mpg, larger ones are a good idea

[Hossamania]

Having a cam that produces power in the upper rpm as with yours Whip, I found that running a gear short at speed produces better gas mileage, it puts the cam in the right power and, requiring less throttle to keep speed.

[WhipLash96]

Having a cam that produces power in the upper rpm as with yours Whip, I found that running a gear short at speed produces better gas mileage, it puts the cam in the right power and, requiring less throttle to keep speed.

I am doing that more often and it helps a little bit, but I am running an OD6. The tranny has a stock 1st gear in it but the rest is different.

Earlier you asked if I could use the stock heads. I'm beginning to think that I just don't have enough compression behind it. With such a high IVC event and small lift and the 0.040 head gasket, I just don't enough squeeze. I probably can but not sure in the same configuration. I want to say that when I had my heads cc'd that they came out at 89-90 cc's. But everyone I speak to about these heads say that stock they were 95cc. If that's the case, I screwed up.