Grudge Box with no Grudge Box bearing?

[les]

Since when did Baker stop providing a Grudge Box maindrive gear bearing with the GB builders kit?

[Ohio HD]

Sounds like you were shorted. You can't install it without one as you know.

[les]

I thought the same thing.  This is the site that's got me scratching my head.

https://bakerdrivetrain.com/collections/2007-up-softail/products/the-grudgebox?variant=44331003576627

[les]

In the picture with the break down of parts, it shows coming with the stock bearing.  This is not a mistake because I just saw a bike today with a GB in it, but it had the stock bearing.  I thought WTF?  Brought up the Baker sight and saw something unexpected...GB kit coming with the stock bearing.

 

[Ohio HD]

The installation book for that transmission shows a Timken main drive setup on page 7, "What's Included In My Kit". Call them.

In the future I'll not buy another GB anyway. New factory fresh HD six speed and send it out for back cut, annealing with new heat treat, shim kit for 3rd gear and you have a better transmission for less than a GB. Add a Baker or other trap door for strength. 


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1034/8027/files/GrudgeBox_Installation_Instructions_GB6_V6-122195.pdf?v=1657907542

[les]

Yeah, it's strange.  On page 4 they show the stock bearing again. 

[les]

I'm wondering if it's because of the large seal-to-pulley spacer oil leak problem.

[Ohio HD]

I did some research after Les brought this to attention, regarding the main drive bearing and gear have been changed from the Baker Timken style to the OEM style roller bearing. It appears that they're using one of their 5th gear or 6th gear main drive gears from their 2006 down Transmissions. I assume they didn't want to make a new gear with the same tooth count as the Timken gear and will match the mainshaft diameter. 

If you remember the Grudge Box and Seven speed box use the same mainshaft diameter that the OEM HD five speeds use. Below are the tooth counts for the original Grudge Box and the new Grudge Box that uses the OEM HD main drive bearing. All of the teeth counts have been changed. So to convert an older Baker unit to the HD style bearing, all gears would need to be replaced.

[kd]

I just removed my GrudgeBox a couple of weeks ago to go in for a warranty rebuild.  I spent some time on the Phone with Linda Wash and she asked me which main drive bearing I was using.  I said the Timkin set. She said it would be returned with an OEM style roller.  I asked why and she said the company that was producing them was screwing up their schedule so they stopped using them and have omitted it.  I know my transmission was purchased in November 2018 and received it April 2019 due to supplier issues.  For the most part it was an option they offered also and that volume out performed the GrudgeBox volume so they dumped it and returned to OEM style.  Some other things have changed in the transmission though because of other manufacturing changes. One thing she made clear is mine would likely come back to me with some of these new components because they didn't blend well with their early stuff. I guess it will be an updated version of sorts.     

I opted out of their inner primary bearing so I had to confirm the main shaft size so I could have the correct S&S bearing race and OEM bearing on hand for reassembly,  She said it was and still is the ) earlier (pre /07) dimension.

[98s1lightning]

Are you saying the "OEM style roller bearing" 2006-down is preferred and stronger? Is why Baker changed???

(my guess is 1999-2006 but maybe as far back as when the first 5 speed splined shaft introduced in early 90's)

I never had any reason to pull an OEM Big Twin 5 speed apart. Can't deny they are a quite reliable.

[Ohio HD]

No, Baker designed a Timken double bearing for the 2007 and newer Big Twins in their Grudge Box and Seven speed gear boxes. They just recently went to the OEM HD style, 2007 up six speed main drive bearing, obsoleting the Timken double bearing.

[kd]

No, Baker designed a Timken double bearing for the 2007 and newer Big Twins in their Grudge Box and Seven speed gear boxes. They just recently went to the OEM HD style, 2007 up six speed main drive bearing, obsoleting the Timken double bearing.

The GrudgeBox continues to be the 07 down main shaft diameter.  I was told to keep my early style S&S inner primary race part number if I decided not to reuse the Baker inner primary High Torque bearing kit I had in it. That was a specific question I asked when I told them I was reverting back to the OEM style roller with the S&S race.

It is interesting that the Timkin set is still shown in their current catalogue on their web site.  I'll be calling in after January and intend to ask why it's still shown as well and confirm (as I was told and made notes on) that I have the correct race for the early main shaft.

[Ohio HD]

Yes I know they still are using the larger diameter mainshaft. But they are using the factory 8967A main drive gear bearing. When Baker uses an OEM part, they use the OEM part number.

[kd]

Yes I know they still are using the larger diameter mainshaft. But they are using the factory 8967A main drive gear bearing. When Baker uses an OEM part, they use the OEM part number.

Yep, I guess I wasn't clear.  That's what I was meaning to say.  After my phone conversation, I was surprised to see they are still showing the Timkin set is available.  Turns out it's for the 07 and up transmission (mainshaft size).  I will ask Linda if they show the late set only because they haven't depleted their stock.  I do remember her telling me my returned cassette would be the OEM roller and I made a note.  She said they had a "manufacturer problem". I am wondering if it has had a performance problem.  It'll be interesting to find out if my shifting problem is related to mainshaft "flex" on the bearings.

The kits are very pricey (at $995) so you would really have to want to convert to the double Timkin set (unless your present main drive gear is shot too). I don't know for sure but because they include the main drive gear they must be different at the main bearing dimension to match the Timkin size. I expect they will probably change my main drive gear too and thinking back, Linda may have said that.   

https://bakerdrivetrain.com/collections/ancillary-products/products/main-drive-gear-bearing-kit

[les]

From what I think, the reason they still offer the Timken, it's for the stock Harley six speed.  Baker had two GB Timken setups (I've used both).  One to convert a stock Harley six speed to the Timken style bearing, and the other that came with their GB tranny set. Again, those two GB maindrive gears are different.  Now, I believe, the only GB Timken maindrive gear that still exists (on their web site) is the one that converts the stock H-D six speed to the double row Timken.

[les]

It's kind of interesting, maybe strange, that the GB tranny set does not come with the GB Timken...anymore.  Perhaps contradictory might be a better term.  The whole purpose of a GB tranny is toughness.  The whole purpose of the GB Timken is toughness.  So, why have the tough tranny come with the OEM bearing that was claimed to be inferior?  This got me to scratching my head and the motivation for my original post.  Something doesn't add up.

[kd]

   ..... and I'll be asking about it.