No spark

[Timetrader]

Got a 2003 carbed softail with no spark im helping a friend with, initially thought easy fix as we did a volts ac test on the crank position sensor and it was outta spec (low) so replaced with new and tested sensor. No joy, plugs, plug wires and coil good, coil has 12v power on center post in plug connector, run/stop switch functions normally, power everywhere else as it should be, no codes, it has a tsm and factory ignition module, any diagnostic thoughts are welcome,Thanks

[Hossamania]

Are you testing with plugs installed, using a third plug to check spark?

[Timetrader]

Tested with plugs installed and a known good inline spark tester installed.

[Fugawee]

Just for clarification purposes...when You say No Spark, does that mean that the Engine is turning over and won't start?
Or a whole lotta' nothing when You hit the Start Button?
Are You certain that the Carb is getting Fuel?
As stupid as this may sound...is there Gas in the Tank?  As well as the Petcock in the correct position?
Has there been any Electrical Work done on the Bike somewhat recently?
Or any Work for that matter?  Such as Carb Adjustments?
Does the Battery still hold a charge after numerous unsuccessful attempts at Starting if it turns over?

[Ohio HD]

Did you try for spark at both cylinders with the inline tester?

[fbn ent]

Does it by chance have a fob? My '02 didn't but I don't know about '03. Just hitting some of the simple stuff to start....

[Timetrader]

The motor turns over strongly and fuel is absolutely getting to both cylinders,there is no spark in either cylinder with the inline tester installed,it does have a fob.This scoot only has about 10,500 miles on it,it hasnt been started or ridden since fall of 2021,full tank of gas,per the owner it ran when it was put away.

[Ohio HD]

By any chance have you check for compression? I've seen an exhaust valve stick when stored for a length of time. No compression equals no spark.

[speedzter]

The Bank angle sensor can cause a similar issue.
It can be bypassed for a quick test.

[Fugawee]

Is it still the 2021 gas in there?
Besides doing a Compression Test as suggested by Ohio HD, You may want to try a shot or two of Starting Fluid into the Carb and see if that does anything for You.  It might tell You something.
The Intake Manifold Seals may be somewhat on the "brittle" side, not providing a proper seal also if the Bike has not been run since the Fall of 2021.

[Timetrader]

I have not done a compression test, i will do that next, im aware of the bank angle sensor creating a no spark issue, in this bike i believe its integrated into the tsm. Speedtzter the bypass you mention does that involve jumping the ignition enable module on the tsm with a 12v power source? or something else? The schematic shows the tsm and ignition module with that ignition enable wire connected. i probably wont be back on this project till after this weekend, i will update this thread with the results. I appreciate all the thoughts, Thanks

[Timetrader]

Had a little time today and did a compression test on both cylinders, NO compression in either cylinder, removed all 4 pushrod covers and rotated engine, no movement in the valve train at all, i could rotate all 4 pushrods with my fingers just like it would be on cam base, which its not. im assuming the lifters are not pumping up and with all the test fires dosent appear to have oil pressure. Thats all for now, more to be revealed

[Ohio HD]

Yikes. I wonder if you have a sheared pinion shaft keyway? That could stop oil pressure and cam rotation.

Strike all that, for some reason I thought you were working on an Evo.   

[Timetrader]

Its all about the base,cam base,   base circle

[FSG]

my 03 Fatty did the same a few months back, I originally thought crank sensor, but no, was the coil ....

got a new OEM coil and plug leads from Cali Phil ..... 03 Fatty all good now ..


you say and coil good ......  how have you tested it ?

[xlfan]

Had a little time today and did a compression test on both cylinders, NO compression in either cylinder, removed all 4 pushrod covers and rotated engine, no movement in the valve train at all, i could rotate all 4 pushrods with my fingers just like it would be on cam base, which its not. im assuming the lifters are not pumping up and with all the test fires dosent appear to have oil pressure. Thats all for now, more to be revealed

You should have had movement in valvetrain when rotating engine even with lifters not pumping up, as total stroke of hydraulic movement is only 0.2"
If not adjustable pushrods, time to take off cam cover.

[kd]

Had a little time today and did a compression test on both cylinders, NO compression in either cylinder, removed all 4 pushrod covers and rotated engine, no movement in the valve train at all, i could rotate all 4 pushrods with my fingers just like it would be on cam base, which its not. im assuming the lifters are not pumping up and with all the test fires dosent appear to have oil pressure. Thats all for now, more to be revealed

You should have had movement in valvetrain when rotating engine even with lifters not pumping up, as total stroke of hydraulic movement is only 0.2"
If not adjustable pushrods, time to take off cam cover.

Are you sure the engine is turning over?  Is it possible there is a clutch slippage problem.  IIRC the 2003 has the primary adjustment window in the primary.  If you remove that, can you confirm the chain is actually moving and spinning it up?

[FSG]

IIRC the 2003 has the primary adjustment window in the primary.

that it does   

[Timetrader]

Coil test,coil disconnected and on bench,multimeter set to 200 (lowest) in ohms,probe center power post and right post #s good,repeat with center post and left post for primary resitance,then set meter to 20k in ohms for secondary resistance #s good.on the scoot side lead has 12v on center post with power on and reponds to run/stop switch,this was days ago since then the owner dropped off a new oem coil.

[Timetrader]

It does have an inspection window and that also was done on day of compression test,the starter is engaging the ring and strongly rotating the primary assembly,however after compression test and pushrod cover removal that revealed no valvetrain movement i placed my borescope into spark plug holes (just a little ) and piston speed was sluggis at best,my next move was probably gonna be primary disassembly,again the assembly spins is it possible the crank is not spinning even with clutch basket and chains rotating?i cant see how.

[-deuced-]

................ is it possible the crank is not spinning even with clutch basket and chains rotating? ...................

Yeah, it's possible, but it would be making one heck of a racket jumping over compensator ramps.
You said pistons are moving. Crank has to turn for that to happen.

.....................removed all 4 pushrod covers and rotated engine, no movement in the valve train at all.....................

I'm wondering why you're looking in the primary if pushrods are not going up and down. It's already been suggested to look in the cam compartment. How are you rotating engine to check valve train movement?

I'd be putting that "inline spark tester" away. Forget about it. Use spark plugs.

Lifters are not going to pump up until after engine starts.

[Timetrader]

Update, the problem is solved and it was indeed in the primary.I removed the outer primary and immediately noticed the nut locking down the compensator was finger loose.further inspection revealed the cover with springs was shot and the splines on the rotor gone from damage.Even though i looked through inspection cover and rotated assembly with starter and by hand and witnessed clutch basket and chains rotating i missed loose nut till dissassemblyof outer primary.the compensator sprocket was spinning but with no torque on nut not enough to rotate crank,etc....there was a little piston movement i suspect from the sliding cams making incidental contact.so flywheel was not rotating either so no spark possible at crank position sensor,i was told this scoot ran when it was parked,i cant see how.solution,new rotor,new cover with springs.

[FSG]

I know my pic says 30 but 50 is a nicer number so cut 50 thou off the end of the new nut you buy 

[-deuced-]

Ouch. Glad you found the problem.