1950 belly numbers

[windowman]

Anyone have a picture of belly numbers on a 50 panhead with the motor in the frame?
I wanted to see one while it was in the frame so I can use a mirror to check one out
since it is setting on a home made stand and hard to get my head under it.

[windowman]

Well found out where I need to look.

[Little Al]

sorry you didn't really get a response. I have attached a picture of the belly numbers on my '54, but not in the bike. If the skid plate is used it might be possible to see them but it would be tough I think...

[windowman]

Oh no prob at all, I am a noob to harleys but not riding, just did not know where to look.
The 50 is on a stand and I was very short on time and found where I need to look.
Just glad the lady is in no hurry to sell it and has given me first dibs on them.


I was looking where the red was and found out I needed to where the green was.


These are the 2 she is selling.
50 Panhead Harley






















77 FLH Harley

[windowman]

How can I tell if the frame is the original on the 50?
I was told that it did have different year parts on it.

[Little Al]

some of the smarter guys can help with the frame id. Speeding Big Twin seems to specialize and catalog frame stuff but there are others here too that very knowledgeable on frames and everything else. anything I can tell you is from things I read here. I am definitely not one of the knowledgeable guys, lol

the Pan, even to my eyes, is certainly not all original parts but I wouldn't let that stop me from buying it. I bought my '54 in a '71 framed chopper. All I really wanted was the original '54 motor & tranny. Anytime you can bring a Pan back to a riding life is good. Good luck!

[chris haynes]

 The frame is a splice job. The front half from a swinging arm machine welded to the rear half of a rigid frame. Lots of later model and Taiwan part too. Not something that would be a restoration project but probably a good rider.

[CraigArizona85248]

Chris, you sure about the splice job?  I've never seen a wishbone swingarm frame and the front of that rigid frame has wishbone down tubes.  Notice there are two bikes pictured (one pan, one shovel, both black), one is a rigid frame the other is a swingarm frame.

-Craig

[chris haynes]

Sorry about that. I just skimmed the photos and saw a swing arm front and a rigid rear.
Not a great photo of the frame. The wishbones look a lil strange and I see no Horn mounts or flat spots on the downtubes. Which a 1950 should have.
I see mostly aftermarket parts on the Panhead. Oil bag, primaries, footboards, top motormount, gas tanks, petcock, intake manifold, carburetor, dash, Yada, Yada, yada.
Once again, likely a good rider but expensive candidate for restoration.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Windowman, here's part of what I previously posted on the H-G forum: 'There's a lot of room between the front rocker cover and the underside of the gas tanks so the frame may have been altered or it may be aftermarket. A good photo of the right-hand side of the steering head may help because all genuine H-D Panhead frames had a steering head lock there, although not all remain intact.' There are other small things/areas that may also help with ID and although I read your batteries died, that photo would be a good starting point.   

I suggested you check the paperwork and any receipts the guy may have kept in case there was anything there to help ID the Panhead frame or any work that may have been done to it. What was the outcome? And I requested you clarify the Panhead engine serial number. What happened? Did you get time to check any of that?

Regarding the Shovelhead, I mentioned that at first glance the frame appeared to be pre-1977. But I posted an example of a 1977 VIN and advised that you have a close look at the VIN on the frame, engine and paperwork. What was the outcome of all that? Did the Shovelhead VIN end with H7? Or did it end with something different?     Eric

[windowman]

I am suppose to be able to go by this week and I can get some more pictures.
We start her job next week so I do need to get by there.
I will get more pictures and get it posted up.
I made it by there but got there last as shes walking out the door then my cameras batteries were dead.
But I will get alot more and then some of the frames too.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Cheers. And compare the outside shape of the frame top engine mount with the two photos below. The first photo is 1948--1951 style. The second shape was used 1952-later and usually had a date code stamped on it. The letter represented the month of manufacture. The numeric character represented the year of manufacture, depending on frame style. If the frame has the second type of mount you could remove the gas tank and check for the code.     Eric

   

[windowman]

Speeding,
I did just stop by today but not know I was going to till I was on my way home.
I did get some pictures new batteries lasted me 15 mins and died.
We are starting her job this Monday so I will be able to get better ones since
I am stopping and picking a new camera up, wife bought me this one when digitals
first came out.
I did get a look at the 50 motor number and it is 50FL5976, I even took a picture
and it did the same thing and looked like an 8

The top motor mount kind of looks like the second picture above thou.

Here is the neck.







I did post some more pictures here,

http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/windowman-mwm/Harley/

[Speeding Big Twin]

Windowman, thanks for the extra photos. The Panhead frame steering head looks to be moulded and it may be aftermarket so I’ve used a photo of Little Al’s H-D Panhead steering head to demonstrate one of the differences. (Thank you, Al.) Notice the front of the steering head in your photo follows a straight line between the bearing cups but Al’s steering head angles inwards at the top and bottom. The frame in your photos has non-Harley fork stops. And the frame top engine mount appears to be 1952-later shape with 1948--1969 style bolt hole so you could remove the tank and check if the mount has a H-D date code on it.

My opinion re the right-hand Panhead crankcase remains unchanged from what I posted on the H-G forum: it appears to be mid/late-1952--1962, and possibly even mid/late-1952--1957. Obviously the belly numbers will tell us more about both case halves.

The reason I said the Shovelhead frame appeared to be pre-1977 is because it lacks the 1977-later style of passenger footrest mounting. The frame VIN boss looks to be 1970--1980 style but the best way to identify the Shovelhead is by using the VIN example I posted on the H-G forum so make a note of it and take it with you next week. If it does turn out to be a 1976 model then the last two characters of the VIN should be H6. And be sure to check both the Shovelhead VINs against the paperwork.     Eric

 

[windowman]

Thanks for the info.

[Ultrashovel]

If that frame is original, it's obviously been extensively modified. One thing - it appears that the wishbones are curved right below the fork head. That looks unusual. Here's the spot I'm referring to. I'm fairly certain that it's an aftermarket frame especially with those fork stops and the shape of the forkhead and curved dpwntubes. Of course such changes are not unusual on a motorcycle that has probably had a myriad of owners over nearly 60 years.




Depending upon price, the Panhead engine and running gear would be nice to have. Of the two, the Panhead looks more interesting to me than the Shovelhead.

[windowman]

I did see another 50 with an after market frame and it looked like this one here.
I was able to see only 1 of the belly numbers and it was 150-5664, the way it is
setting on that stand makes it hard to get my head under there.

[Speeding Big Twin]

I’ll bet the 150-5664 belly number was on the left case? Its meaning is as follows:

1 = 74ci OHV engine
50 = 1950 (case was line-bored/machined in 1950)
5664 = sequential production number

At reply #13 I incorrectly stated that the 1952-later frame top engine mount had a 1952−1969 style bolt hole so I’ll edit that after I post this. Although the outer shape of the mount did indeed change for 1952, the opening for the bolt remained the same style as the opening used for 1948−1951.     Eric