Engine Repair vs Build Delimma - Opinions Sought

[blk-betty]

Some of you may remember a few threads I started on the old HTT site about vibration after my pipe swap.  If not no big deal.  My 06 88" stage 1 carb model Street Glide has developed a significant engine vibration and my fear is that it's a major internal problem.  I am taking it the shop next week for them to try to determine what the problem may be.  We talked about a possible crank/flywheel assembly problem (which is my suspicion from HTT members comments) and the service writer says: 

"If you have to tear it down might as well throw a stroker crank in it and make it a 103, no since rebuilding it with stock 88" parts if it's already torn down"

I agree with his assessment but have 2 major reservations:

1) Cost -  How much more does a 103" crank assembly cost than the stock 88" assembly?  If the crank is bad would that cause problems with the cylinders necessitating new ones?  Are the 88" barrels the same cost as the 95/103s?  Do big bore flat top pistons cost the same as the 88 pistons.  If I can reuse all I have except the crank assembly, going to 95 or 103 will be significantly more in cost as I'd have to buy those parts out right, not to mention another ignition system.

2) Reliability - If I screwed up a crank assembly at 88" after 21K miles, what's the likelihood that the same will happen sooner with more power?  I had a HQ build 95" 2002 Softail that put out 109/107 and I rode that thing hard.  I sold it for this Street Glide and I intentionally kept it as a stage 1 88 for reliability reasons. 

The ultimate "fix" would be to retrofit the cases for the timken bearings and have the crank welded, but I'm not wanting to build a hi-po motor, nor spend that kind of money.  I just want my bike back up and running like it was 1000 miles ago before the vibration started.  I had thought of dropping in a small cam (Andrews 21) when it needed the cam tensioners changed or maybe even bumping up to a 95" with flat tops and a cam (Andrews 26) sometime down the road but really I don't need the extra power.  I ride solo 99.5% of the time and only weigh 160lbs so the stage 1 88" does just fine - sure more would be fun, but it's not needed. 

If it is as bad as I think it might be, this would be the time to do any upgrade work but the labor alone to swap the crank assembly is about all I can afford with the economy what it is and the holiday season.  So spending more for a stroker crank, big bore cylinders (or have mine bored), pistons and cams may double the cost of the "repair" and then if I didn't retrofit to timkens and weld the crank I'll probably ride in fear thinking it's gonna screw the pooch again, just a little sooner.

If I had the tools, shop, and experience or friends with all of those, I wouldn't mind trying to do the work myself.  If that was the case I would definitely consider going 95" or 103" as my cost would be only parts but my situation is that I have to rely on the shop and pay labor. 

I hate the idea of tearing down and rebuilding as an 88 but the cost for more parts and the reliability with the weak link crank has me wondering what to do.  I live in the southeast with pretty much a year round riding season so not riding due to weather and waiting a while to gather the parts and money is really not a consideration.  It would just be not riding in cooler temps (50s and 60s) and sitting at home when others are out riding while I save money and gather parts. 

Hopefully they will find it's something simple and won't need a tear down but my pessimism doesn't allow me to think that way.

Opinions....Suggestions.....       

[KingofCubes]

I just bought 2 sets of stock 88" cylinders for $40.00 a set which I will poke out to 95" or 98" and throw on the shelf. I take those cranks and true, plug, and weld them for under $200.00. The timken bearing is not necessary for a power output under 115-120 if your not going to beat on it. The RR525 cam with 10:1 compression (gear drive only) will get you close to 100/100 with 06 heads ($150.00 on e-bay usually) drive the low torque up and pull a lot of heat out of the engine. You can get the inner billet cam plate from R&R, a 07 Harley pump, and with cams and gears and be under $1,200.00.

[autoworker]

Buy a new or new take off stock stroker crank,have it trued,plugged,welded.It'll be fine.

[Faast Ed]

If the crank is bad would that cause problems with the cylinders necessitating new ones?

No. Nothing to worry about there.

[hogmandon]

There is a trued  balanced and welded crank on the swap meet section

[RevFastEddy]

The cheapest way is just install a used factory take out crank that is good. Just weld it first. Probably less than $200 and put it back together.

My preference is take your stock crank and send it to Dark horse for rebuilding and make it any stroke you want. Personally I would go 4.65" and then have the stock cylinders bored out to a 95" bore. Then get a pair of stroker pistons, woods 6 or mackie 510 cam, and put it back together with a valve job.  You would be looking at something in the neighborhood of 120tq which is almost double stock. Maybe 95hp. It will be stronger and more mechanically reliable than stock. You mileage wont change much and it will be a big grin when you pass a truck.

[mayor]

The RR525 cam with 10:1 compression (gear drive only) will get you close to 100/100 with 06 heads .

don't know much about that particular cam, but the SE251 in a 103" seems to hit around 100/100 everytime with stock '06 and up heads.  In fact there's two in the dyno section right now.  The best part about using the 251's is you can stay with the new chain system.   

[blk-betty]

Thanks for the replies.

Ed, I didn't think anything other than the crank would be bad like you say, just asked because if I had to buy more parts that would significantly increase my cost over just a tear down and rebuild to swap cranks and if the cost was the same might as well go bigger.

Can a stroker crank (which is what comes in the 96", is it not?) be purchased new for the same cost as the original 88" crank?  Or is there a difference between my 06 88 assembly and the 07-09 96" assembly where a "stock"  96 crank would not work with my 06 cases.  I thought at one time when the motors were all 88" the 103 SE stroker crank was something like $800-900.  How much is a new crank?

So the timkems aren't necessary, just true, plug and weld the crank?

Other than Darkhorse or Falcion (sp) and KofC who does this type of crank work?  What is the typical cost?  If my crank went bad I'd be willing to pay a few bucks for the insurance that it own't happen again even if I stay at 88".

[Scramjet]

I am sorry to hear about your vibration problem. It may be minor.

I have seen big vibration turn out to be the fairing bracket cracked and $7 fixed it.  You might get lucky.  It could happen!

If not here is my opinion.  Big bore 95" cast pistons and you could probably find a used SE203 cam for small bucks.  Thiner head gasket and you would be supprised how good it will run.  If it is the crank at least go 103" with the 4.375 stroke.

B

[blk-betty]

Scram

Funny you should metion the fairing brackets.  I hadn't ridden the bike in about 2 weeks and when I got home today I took it out for a ride to better describe exactly what I feel when I drop it off next week.

Head a metal tapping sound in the dash area and after a quick 5 mile ride I pulled the outer fairing cover off and the right side bracket is snapped in two and the left has a crack 2/3rds the way through it in the same place as the right side.

I'm going to replace those tomorrow and am hoping that is the fix but my gut tells me they craked from the vibration, and not that they are the casue of the vibration.  I say this because the vibration is felt most on the seat and floorboards, it's a buzzing feeling that is rpm and not speed related (is fet in neutral while reving or riding and most pronounced at 2200 rpm) and is best described to feel just like an older rigid mounted sportster.  Could broken fairing brackets cause that type of vibration? 

[autoworker]

So the timkems aren't necessary, just true, plug and weld the crank?

Other than Darkhorse or Falcion (sp) and KofC who does this type of crank work?  

Not necessary.
I used Rev Preformance.$120. plus shipping I believe.It was trued to .0007in.
There are others that do this type of work.

[Killer]

Yep, could be nothing at all. Had a friend a couple of weeks ago that swore up and down that his crank was failing. Long story short, turned out to be a broken baffle in two inside his pipe. The baffle was still attached to the outside of the exhaust and looked normal. Funny how sound and vibrations will travel.

[Shovelheader]

Wasn't there something posted a while ago about someone using a bike lift and bending the metal brace down by the tranny and oil pan and this causing a pronounced vibration? Not sure if you used a lift or not when changing your pipes but if you did may be worth looking at.

[crazycalvin]

I had a baffle pop out on my Wide Glide's V & H "Straight-Shots" and it felt and sounded really weird.  The pipes were almost brand new and I didn't know I needed to Loc-Tite the screws for the baffles.  I hope that it is something simple.  Later, Calvin.

[Faast Ed]

Ed, I didn't think anything other than the crank would be bad like you say, just asked because if I had to buy more parts that would significantly increase my cost over just a tear down and rebuild to swap cranks and if the cost was the same might as well go bigger.

If that is the case, let me change my previous reply for you.
"You're jugs are likely shot and you will definately need new bigger ones!".

[04glide]

If its your crank do what King of cubes recomends. Just for your info after 68,000 miles I have patched my fairing brackets about 15 times. When they break I get all kinds of vibrations. I have some big speakers in there and know that they contribute to the breakage. Good luck with you problem.

[quikbike]

S&S crank if it was mine. Almost the same cost as stock crank better balance and truer the stock

[blk-betty]

Replaced the fairing brackets, pulled the meagphone and inspected the baffle, nothing amiss - no change still has the vibration only diference is the fairing doesn't shake as much as it did.

Will drop off at the shop tomorrow after work.

[mayor]

well, keep us posted.  We're more than happy to help you spend your money.   

[PanHeadRed]

>>it's a buzzing feeling that is rpm... related,  Could broken fairing brackets cause that type of vibration?<

The exhaust making contact with the frame or floor boards surely could. Funny how it started with the pipe swap.

[hotbo]

rph is right :i did a pipe swap on a friend of mines road king one time went with the 2-1 v-h pro-pipe and right after that a vibration came into play looked for a few days thought something else was wrong with the mill,bammoooooo!!!happened to look at the right moment and the pipe was contacting the floor board bracket under the bike hard to see,but that was the problem hope it works out well for ya,later travis