Saluting the American flag

[Phu Cat]

Had the honor of presenting the Colors before a patriotic ceremony in my community.  As the National Anthem was played and we faced those in the grandstands, naturally everyone in unifrom saluted, but there were also many that were in civilian clothes (and too old to still be in uniform) that saluted also.  I was so proud of those guys it almost brought a tear to my eye!  If we old farts make it a habit to show just how dedicated we are to the red, white and blue I don't see how the younger generations can help but to continue that dedication when they are our age.  Patriotism seems to be on the increase and maybe this is one of the reasons why.

If you are one of those guys that stands tall and salutes when the National Anthem is played even tho you're in civilian clothes, thank you, and I hope you'll continue setting the standard for our younger brothers and sisters.

Phu Cat

[the Grump]

Recently at a funeral, when the Officer said "PRESENT ARMS" , I instinctively snapped at salute. But, actually we're not supposed to right? I think it is only for those in uniform, everyone else is supposed to place their hand over there heart.

[smittyon66]

Recently at a funeral, when the Officer said "PRESENT ARMS" , I instinctively snapped at salute. But, actually we're not supposed to right? I think it is only for those in uniform, everyone else is supposed to place their hand over there heart.

It's now proper for veterans to salute while in civies.

http://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1609

[razar]

Commandant of the Marine Corps, did not adopt the procedure to salute in civies, as Marines do not salute when uncovered.  Instead, he suggested a hand over the heart.
Semper -Fi
Razar (USMC 69-74)

[Panzer]

If I'm wearing a ball cap, the hat goes over the heart.
If no hat, the hand is placed over the heart.....and proud to do it.

Panzer

Well said Mr. Truck.........well said!!!

[the Grump]

Cool! I didn't know that.

[CraigArizona85248]

There is actually a government maintained document called the "United States Code" that addresses this question.  Here is the section pertaining to the National Anthem:



From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
[www.gpoaccess.gov]
[Laws in effect as of January 3, 2007]
[CITE: 36USC301]

[Page 28-29]

     TITLE 36--PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, AND
                              ORGANIZATIONS

      Subtitle I--Patriotic and National Observances and Ceremonies

                   Part A--Observances and Ceremonies

  CHAPTER 3--NATIONAL ANTHEM, MOTTO, FLORAL EMBLEM \1\ MARCH, AND TREE


Sec. 301. National anthem

    (a) Designation.--The composition consisting of the words and music
known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
    (b) Conduct During Playing.--During a rendition of the national
anthem--
        (1) when the flag is displayed--
            (A) all present except those in uniform should stand at
        attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;

[[Page 29]]

            (B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with
        their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder,
        the hand being over the heart; and
            (C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute
        at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until
        the last note; and

        (2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face
    toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag
    were displayed.

(Pub. L. 105-225, Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1263.)

                                          Historical and Revision Notes
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Revised  Section                    Source (U.S. Code)               Source (Statutes at Large)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
301(a)................................  36:170.                          Mar. 3, 1931, ch. 436, 46 Stat. 1508.
301(b)................................  36:171.                          June 22, 1942, ch. 435, Sec.  6, 56
                                                                          Stat. 380; Dec. 22, 1942, ch. 806,
                                                                          Sec.  6, 56 Stat. 1077; July 7, 1976,
                                                                          Pub. L. 94-344, Sec.  1(18), 90 Stat.
                                                                          812.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Phu Cat]

Covered, uncovered, Marine, Army, Air Force, Navy, I don't care.  I'm showing respect to the thousands of men and women that have defended freedom over the last two hundred plus years.  

As a soldier on active duty, you're not supposed to salute in civvies.  We civilians don't need a law to tell us when to be respectful of our fallen brothers and sisters.  I saluted long before there was a law, Smitty, and dare anyone to challenge me on it now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Razar, but because Commandant of the Marine Corps, did not adopt the procedure to salute in civvies,  doesn't mean civilian Marines CAN'T salute, does it?  I would have thought your buddies lives lost in armed conflict more precious to you than what the Commandant will never know about?  All due respect to you, tho.

As far as the U.S. Flag code goes, Craig, I would think going over and above the minimum it suggests would be acceptable, especially since a salute is a mark of respect in itself.  Maybe since there is a law regarding civilians saluting the flag now, maybe the flag code should be updated accordingly.

PC

[DarrellV]

Covered, uncovered, Marine, Army, Air Force, Navy, I don't care.  I'm showing respect to the thousands of men and women that have defended freedom over the last two hundred plus years.  

As a soldier on active duty, you're not supposed to salute in civvies.  We civilians don't need a law to tell us when to be respectful of our fallen brothers and sisters.  I saluted long before there was a law, Smitty, and dare anyone to challenge me on it now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Razar, but because Commandant of the Marine Corps, did not adopt the procedure to salute in civvies,  doesn't mean civilian Marines CAN'T salute, does it?  I would have thought your buddies lives lost in armed conflict more precious to you than what the Commandant will never know about?  All due respect to you, tho.

As far as the U.S. Flag code goes, Craig, I would think going over and above the minimum it suggests would be acceptable, especially since a salute is a mark of respect in itself.  Maybe since there is a law regarding civilians saluting the flag now, maybe the flag code should be updated accordingly.

PC

I hear you Jim, You know allot of people put a flag out in their yards after 9-11-01, and right fully so. I DIDN'T because my flag was already out in my yard 9-10-01...if I ever offend someone about our flag it's not on purpose I assure you. And OUR was the key word there. 

[Garry in AZ]

My father was a Canadian veteran of WWII. He taught me when I was a kid to stand at attention and salute the flag at sporting events, etc...purely as a show of respect... whenever the anthem is played. When I moved to the US, I brought the habit with me. I salute the Stars and Stripes, and I sing the anthem of the country that allowed me to immigrate here, and that I have chosen to call home. I think the info Craig posted is what is considered a minimum of etiquette
If someone takes offense with my habit, I'm sorry, too f&^%ing bad.

Garry

[bigblock6912]

amen garry

[smittyon66]

There is actually a government maintained document called the "United States Code" that addresses this question.  Here is the section pertaining to the National Anthem:

The law was changed in 2008.

Section 301(b)(1) of title 36, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraphs (A) through (C) and inserting the following new subparagraphs:
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart

[FTBY55]

Thanks for sharing this proper ettiquette with all. I have always made it a practice to stand at attention while the National Anthem is played. Did not know that your right hand was to be placed over your heart while the anthem is played. Thought that was only during the Pledge of Allegiance.
Have been showing dogs for many years and each and every show is started with the National Anthem.
It's wonderful hearing all the clapping when the National Anthem concludes.


Tom

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[CndUltra88]

My father was a Canadian veteran of WWII. He taught me when I was a kid to stand at attention and salute the flag at sporting events, etc...purely as a show of respect... whenever the anthem is played. When I moved to the US, I brought the habit with me. I salute the Stars and Stripes, and I sing the anthem of the country that allowed me to immigrate here, and that I have chosen to call home. I think the info Craig posted is what is considered a minimum of etiquette
If someone takes offense with my habit, I'm sorry, too f&^%ing bad.

Garry

As a Canadian, former Boy Scout, Cnd Coast Gaurd Aux.  (sorry I didnt do Military Service)  and a  Visitor To Your Country from Time to Time, I aint about to tell you what you can and can not do in your country, but I'll Second what Garry in Az says !!!
God Bless The Troops and Bring them Home Safe !!!
Rob

[Ultrashovel]

Had the honor of presenting the Colors before a patriotic ceremony in my community.  As the National Anthem was played and we faced those in the grandstands, naturally everyone in unifrom saluted, but there were also many that were in civilian clothes (and too old to still be in uniform) that saluted also.  I was so proud of those guys it almost brought a tear to my eye!  If we old farts make it a habit to show just how dedicated we are to the red, white and blue I don't see how the younger generations can help but to continue that dedication when they are our age.  Patriotism seems to be on the increase and maybe this is one of the reasons why.

If you are one of those guys that stands tall and salutes when the National Anthem is played even tho you're in civilian clothes, thank you, and I hope you'll continue setting the standard for our younger brothers and sisters.

Phu Cat

I always put my hand over my heart as I was taught in Grammar school. i also remember to say "One Nation Under God..." Some folks don't like that but I don't care. I learned it as a child and I'm not stopping now.

Good post, Mr. Cat. We should all remember to show our respect for our flag and those who fought to protect our country.

[Ultrashovel]

My father was a Canadian veteran of WWII. He taught me when I was a kid to stand at attention and salute the flag at sporting events, etc...purely as a show of respect... whenever the anthem is played. When I moved to the US, I brought the habit with me. I salute the Stars and Stripes, and I sing the anthem of the country that allowed me to immigrate here, and that I have chosen to call home. I think the info Craig posted is what is considered a minimum of etiquette
If someone takes offense with my habit, I'm sorry, too f&^%ing bad.

Garry

Couldn't agree more. We have great respect for our Canadian Neighbors as well. 

[CraigArizona85248]

I'll have to stick with putting my hand over my heart.  I've always been told that saluting was something for the veterans to do.  It sickens me when someone pretends to be a vet who isn't in order to get a pat on the back or whatever motivation makes someone do that.  I don't want someone to mistake me, a civilian, for a current active military person or a retired vet.  That is not an honor I have earned.  I have a great deal of respect for all our vets and as such I feel they have the right to salute and I do not.  I also don't feel that putting my hand over my heart is less respectful to our flag then saluting.  To me it is just a different way of showing the same respect.

-Craig

<EDIT:  And for those who do salute regardless of your military background.  I have no issue with it.  I'm just not comfortable going there myself because I don't want anyone to give me credit for something I haven't done.>

[smittyon66]

....As a soldier on active duty, you're not supposed to salute in civvies.  We civilians don't need a law to tell us when to be respectful of our fallen brothers and sisters.  I saluted long before there was a law, Smitty, and dare anyone to challenge me on it now.....


PC

I agree with you Phu. I was just pointing out that the law was finally changed to what some of us were doing all along.

[1JITSU1]

I'll have to stick with putting my hand over my heart.  I've always been told that saluting was something for the veterans to do.  It sickens me when someone pretends to be a vet who isn't in order to get a pat on the back or whatever motivation makes someone do that.  I don't want someone to mistake me, a civilian, for a current active military person or a retired vet.  That is not an honor I have earned.  I have a great deal of respect for all our vets and as such I feel they have the right to salute and I do not.  I also don't feel that putting my hand over my heart is less respectful to our flag then saluting.  To me it is just a different way of showing the same respect.

-Craig

<EDIT:  And for those who do salute regardless of your military background.  I have no issue with it.  I'm just not comfortable going there myself because I don't want anyone to give me credit for something I haven't done.>

Yeah im old fashioned

[Hossamania]

Craig, you nailed my sentiments exactly!!  I have not earned the right to salute. I didn't start putting my hand over my heart until I went on The Run For The Wall. I didn't understand flag ettiquette. When we were riding, veterans and active military would sand at attention and salute. I wanted to tell them "I do not deserve your salute!". And at the same time I wish it were my right and obligation to snap back the sharpest salute I could muster. So I could only acknowledge their respect with a solemn nod.
Now, at parades or other ceremonies, when the flag passes, or the anthem plays, I put my hand on my heart. Same with the pledge of allegience.
I think it's important for young people to learn these principles, to understand how important they are. I think it's important for all Americans.

Sorry to rant on a bit. Thanks to all who honor the flag, especially veterans, as it gives me pride to see the respect it deserves.

[iiggii]

Hell yeah iam American !!!! Born Here . Dont mess with the Flag !

[Dennis The Menace]

I earned the right to salute, and do so instead of hand over heart.  I also salute flags close the road when I ride.  Some probably think I am strange, but thats their problem, not mine.  I know the price of a flag, and its not measured in dollars,

And, I got no problem with a non-vet saluting.  Damn, that is just plain ignorant......who cares if you served or not, as long as you honor her and what she stands for.  Its all about respect to our history and tradition.

And, PC, yeah we will set the standard for the young'ens when we pay tribute.  But for me its extremely personal and I dont do it to set a standard for them....I guess its just a bonus when they see me do it.

In memory of three great soldiers:
Spc Scott Reynolds, US Army
Spc Sabas Cecilio, US Army
PFC Marvin Edmond, US Army

menace

[Garry in AZ]

I've never considered that by saluting someone would think I was a vet, but I can see it happening... Now I'm reconsidering my habitual salute that my dad taught me. The last thing I want is for someone to think I deserve the respect and honor a veteran of any war does. Damn... now I sorta feel like I've done wrong, when all I was trying to do was show my respect and gratitude. Damn.  

[Hossamania]

Garry, don't feel wrong. you did nothing but respect the flag.

[CraigArizona85248]

I've never considered that by saluting someone would think I was a vet, but I can see it happening... Now I'm reconsidering my habitual salute that my dad taught me. The last thing I want is for someone to think I deserve the respect and honor a veteran of any war does. Damn... now I sorta feel like I've done wrong, when all I was trying to do was show my respect and gratitude. Damn.  

Garry, I apologize if what I said made you feel that was directed at you.  Not my intent at all.  I was only relating why I personally would feel funny about saluting.  When I see someone salute, because I was taught that salutes are for the military, I draw a conclusion that the person must be current or former military (probably shouldn't make that assumption).  Please don't stop showing the respect for the flag in the way you were taught by your father because of my comments.  As a lot of guys have said, it's a sign of respect no matter if you are a vet or not.

-Craig