Master Tune and Spark/Timing

[WVULTRA]

Seems that a lot of MasterTune users are realizing the benefits of the VTune Software.  A lot of posts on all the popular forums from users that are highly impressed with the results they're getting with VTune by spending some time with their laptop computers while riding.  I also think the Dyno Tuners are enjoying the benefits of VTune Data Recordings and the Histogram.

Once the "riding" VTune Data Recording process has been used for a sufficient number of runs, and the VTune results have been optimized to the extent possible, we're offered the opportunity to delve into the Timing/Spark Tables.  And there's some starting info included in the Tuning Guide.

IMO, attempting to improve the Spark Tables appears to be a monumental task that will involve a tremendous amount of time/trial and error, that could have the "dog chasing it's tail".  It also appears to this untrained eye that having the Timing Tables optimized would be icing on the cake after having the VEs as good as can be with VTune.

My point of this discussion is that I'm wondering if a "Spark Tune" software, similar to VTune, could be developed by TTS that would enhance the Spark Tables in a way that would optimize a significant portion of the tables/area we ride in?

I fully realize a competent Dyno Operator tuning in a controlled environment will always be required to get our rides as good as they can be, and this post is in no way meant to take anything away from those Tuners that have trained and worked for years to develop the level of skill that's required to tune these archaic V-Twins.  It appears (to me) there is as much importance to having the Spark/Timing portions of these maps optimized as there is with the VE tables.

But I may be way off base here, and if so I'm open to being corrected.  Could simply be my lack of understanding of the Spark/Timing process. 

[Steve Cole]

We would be giving you the customers a big disservice if we were to do it. To really make the spark tables tune themselves it will take much more computing power than the HD ecm is capable of doing. A simple program that removes spark based on knock is very simple to do but we feel gives the customer a very big problem. That problem would be that you think it tuned and it's no where close to being tuned! Spark need to be looked at and thought about and then added or subtracted in the right area of the code. There are several places you can do it but some will be much better than others. The HD ECM only subtracts timing as a SAFETY not a tuning aid. It will not add any if it's needed, so that's why we left it the way that it is.

[WVULTRA]

We would be giving you the customers a big disservice if we were to do it. To really make the spark tables tune themselves it will take much more computing power than the HD ecm is capable of doing. A simple program that removes spark based on knock is very simple to do but we feel gives the customer a very big problem. That problem would be that you think it tuned and it's no where close to being tuned! Spark need to be looked at and thought about and then added or subtracted in the right area of the code. There are several places you can do it but some will be much better than others. The HD ECM only subtracts timing as a SAFETY not a tuning aid. It will not add any if it's needed, so that's why we left it the way that it is.

Steve:

Thanks for explaining how the HD ECM deals with subtracting timing as a SAFETY!

Would there be time in your/TTS's schedule to educate us on where/how to get started with the process of looking/thinking about the Timing Tables and adding/subtracting in the right areas?  Maybe an addition to the current Tuning Guide?

Thanks again!

[wavlovr1]

I bumped the timing up 2 degrees everywhere and then monitored to see where in got retarded so I would see where it was too much. Then I went back to the original timing because the 2 degrees was too much in some places.

jb