tts pinging and timing

[jpbo]

 GOOD DAY
i have done the tuning according to the v-tune guide , but i cannot remove some pinging in the front cylinder at 2500 to 2750 rpm and 70 to 80 kpa. It appears under light acceleration when running in 5 or 6 gears,till now i have removed as much as 7 degrees . I don't have anymore pinging anywhere, cruising or wot ,in the front or rear cylinder . In  this map and rpm region i have removed 3 degrees  for the rear , i tried to increase the acceleration table,no change,
according to some posts removing 7 degrees seems to be too much .What's the problem with the front?
What should i do next?
it's a road king 08 ,103 stage II, 255 cams

thanks to all

[Blackbaggr]

I am no expert but rather than retarding the timing try increasing fuel in that range only. Also try to run the highest octane available in your area if you aren't already. If you add fuel instead of retarding the timing you might be able to decrease heat as well...

Also...be sure you are using the correct map to start with for your year and build. In addition to using the correct map make sure you are using the latest TTS release ....

[Herko]

Little more info first.

Noting the ping by ear only or are you doing data logging as well?

What RPM and TPS?
One spot only or multiple places?
Did you get good green data in these spots?

Sounds like addl fuel is needed too.

[Herko]

"pinging in the front cylinder at 2500 to 2750 rpm and 70 to 80 kpa."

Poor reading comprehension on my part...darned ADD.

Are you still 14.6 in the high map columns?

[jpbo]

i used UH 205-002-C2,it's latest release map, it's best close for stage II and 255 cams,i have done the v-tune according to the guide,almost all cells were white, i extended last good data up to 100 map from 80 kpa. i have used datamaster to collect all pinging datas and correct them according to the tuning guide. the only problem is with the front cylinder from 2500 to 2750 rpm between 70 and 80 kpa and TPS%, between 25 and 35 %. it's in close loop set to (14.5) .
7 degrees removed and still pinging.
any idea?

thanks

[Don D]

If the AF is set at 14.5 there it will not operate in closed loop.

[jpbo]

IT'S SET TO 762 MV IN THE CLOSE LOOP TABLE BEFORE V-TUNE TUNING

THANKS

[burgies08ultra]

what is the clb set at??/
don b

[jpbo]

Before doing a v-tune session according to the tuning guide,if you want, you  can set the close loop table to an another value, this will change the afr,when riding in close loop,

[yositime]

it's in close loop set to (14.5) .

Is this a typo here or in your table? For closed loop it should be 14.6

[jpbo]

the afr table is at 14.6 but the close-loop table is at 762, all is in the tuning guide

[yositime]

the afr table is at 14.6 but the close-loop table is at 762, all is in the tuning guide

Don't know what to tell you, it would have been an easy explanation if the table accidentally had 14.5 in it instead of 14.6.....   

[wavlovr1]

One simple fix is to take it out of closed loop under the pinging condition fields. Set the AFR to 13 in those fields and see if problem goes away. If that works then gradually lean out those areas and retest. ie; 13.5, 13.8, 14.0, 14.2, etc.

jimbob

[ViennaHog]

You could go to the corresponding VE table area and bump the value by say 5% and see what you get. Had a similar ping and that cured it.

[Herko]

As mentioned above.
As a next step, in the AFR table, set everything to the right of 65 kPa to 13.2 and see what results.
Then you can work in reverse from there.

Or since it's front cyl only look at the VE intersection per DM where knock occurs.
Add VE accordingly.

For either, keep in mind, there can be a bit of a lag where the Knock Retard spike(s) occur.

[jpbo]

Thanks for the help

If i understand well, i can get out of close loop in the area where knock occur and richen the afr,
or in my case it's just the front cylinder,so i can go to the VE table in the area of pinging    and ( when you said bump)
I'm not sure , is it increase the value by 5%??

thanks again

[ViennaHog]

yes, % of value in the VE table. There is a % button on top of the table.

[jpbo]

OK
i will try that next ,i have just done another V-tune, if that not cure i will increase the ve table

[Harleyrider09]

You could go to the corresponding VE table area and bump the value by say 5% and see what you get. Had a similar ping and that cured it.

If you want to only increase fuel in one cyl after tune by 5% in some on the ve cell would you first take it out of closed loop by putting it in AFR in say 14.5?
And if you do that would it read the 14.5 AFR or original ve plus the 5%?Hope this makes sense.Because I take it that if you change ve table without changing AFR from 14.6 it will not change anything.
Thanks Mike

[ViennaHog]

The 5% advice is based on the assumption that for whatever reason the calculated VE is to low and creates are lean condition. The closed loop function has only a limited capacity of adjusting an incorrect VE and the bump in VE could bring it back to 'normal'.
Yes changing the AFR in that area does the same

[jpbo]

i have done another V-tune, all cells were white with some yellow at the extremities, this helped ,i got less sparks when i monitor sparks data ,but i still get some sparks at the same place,
according to a post from Mr Cole after the ve table are set,don't touch, so i have tried increasing the acceleration table, no change , i only want to cure for one cylinder and stay in close loop,
is increasing the ve table the last to do, and what that can cause as problem if there is ?

thanks

[Herko]

VTuning does in fact calibrate the VE's.
But the AFR set to use during calibration in not always the best AFR number to run.

You're at a decision point here. If you don't want to change the VE's then change the AFR table.
If you want to do only one cylinder...change the VE(s).

VE's:
"...with some yellow at the extremities."
Specifics would help: ie RPM/TP. (typed words or got pic?)
Maybe a VE change is in order anyway??

"...a post from Mr Cole after the ve table are set,don't touch,..."
If you do, it's not like he's going to send the TTS police to confiscate your VCI and cables. Especially if the extrapolated (the follow the trend non-white) VE's are out of kilter a bit and a change is done in the interest of a good tune. Besides, if needed, it's too easy to go back where you were with the previous map saved.

AFR Table only:
In the AFR table, set everything to the right of 65 kPa to 13.2 and see what results.
Then you can work in reverse (back towards lean) from there.

[jpbo]

i post  the front ve table the problem is around 2500 to 2750 25% to 35% tps in this region it's all negative values compare to original and in rear cylinder it's all positive in this region
i attached the front ve table


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Herko]

Better info to re-create the Generate Tune (the white/pink/yellow graph), take a screen shot and post as a pic.
The positive/negative movement alone doesn't tell much.

[jpbo]

just back from a spark data run, where i got sparks i increased the front ve table with some units was 95 up to 98 and it works,no more ping.

thanks herko and ViennaHog  for your help