Top end oiling option

[ricochet]

This is on a big bore pan type motor with STD pan cases, STD heads, Accurate Engineering roller rockers and blocks, and evo type hydraulic lifter blocks, tappets and pushrods.

Any opinions on the best way to oil top end given I have the option of oiling through the tappet block up the pushrods versus oiling through outside lines.

ricochet

[stroker800]

  I would allow it to oil up thru the pushrod tubes,,,,I was not aware you had choices for oiling on the pan style motors...The Vulcan built motors are pushrod oilers unless custom ordered and the new S&S P motor has the same oling pathway as an Evo,,,I do not believe you can oil externally....Can you describe the build and post some pics of the roller rockers.
Dave

[ricochet]

As soon as I get the various parts back I'll start to put pictures up and have more to write about.  Heads are STD panhead style which actually use a shovel/pan valve geometry but these have been massaged some.  Dual plugged, compression releases, set out head bolt pattern and drilled and tapped for both external feed and drain.  Crankcase is STD also with generator right and alternator left, plus 1/2 " on deck height and set out cylinder base mounting.  4" bore by 4  3/4" stroke T & O crank assembly with 8"rods.  S & S EVO type hydraulic conversion tappet blocks for shovelhead.

So the heads can oil either way.  So besides the asthetics of having oil feed lines any specific reason oiling one way or the other may be prefered?

ricochet

[stroker800]

  Ricochet,,,I didn't realize you building this motor....I was thinkin it was assembled...I have a similar motor,,,55 pan cases,3 5/8 shovel cyls,std heads, s&s oil pump...I know the new s&s p motor oils thru the push rod tubes like an evo,,but their rocker arms are an evo set up. I believe if you are running the panhead 2 peice rocker bearing you have to oil as they were designed ..I'm in the process of having a rocker arm mount made to run evo rocker arms in my std heads, I think I have to keep my external oiling system due to the fact they are 55 cases..With the right engine man and correct oil pump you can oil any thing the way you want,,,I just worry bout the pan rocker set up....Oh yeah...4" bore .and 4.25 stroke....nice!!!! What brand of cyls?...I never though of a 4" bore for a shov or pan....keep me updated...would love too see it go together.....for me thats the best part.
Dave

[ricochet]

Had some time over the holiday to look at stuff and develop more lists of needed parts.  But to revisit the original question with using the Accurate rollers and blocks it looks like oiling through the pushrods would just push oil up in reverse direction.  This I assume would require I plug the external oil ports in the heads.  My thought is that by doing this you're getting full pressure to the hydraulic tappets first then up into the rockers where it meets resistance while lubricating those.  Drain back is done externally.  Feeding the top end externally splits the feed into both the tappets and rockers at the same time.  I don't know if it would really make a difference.  But I would have one issue.  The pushrod tube bottom ends are solid, no hole.  The other end has the hole.  Can it be drilled without loosing temper?

Using a 73-91 S & S oil pump so plenty of pressure and this is supposed to feed tappets and top end before the crank.

Camera is missing but coming.

ricochet

[stroker800]

  I have been messing with evo roller rockers for the pan ...the oiling has always been my worry..On the S&S they oil like an evo(thru thr tubes).On my pan I have external oiling to STD heads...I basically stealing the S&S rocker set up for STD heads. My thoughts are that a slash type system is the best I can come up with,,,the rocker arms them selfs will have holes drilled in them for oil to go thru to the shaft and maybe the shaft drilled out from end to end with holes also in it for more oil flow.  I,m not smart enuff to figure out how to pressurize the feed into the rockers,,,,OK enuff of that Your pushrods couldbe drilled out on a lathe in coolant..no problem...I would like to get away from the old pan lifter blocks ,,oiled poorly at best,,,,good thing bout S&S oilpump we can flood the top end if neccesaryand add external drains. Keep up the info and always good to other people thinkin of this stuff.
Dave

[ricochet]

Let's see if I can post an image or two of that roller rocker assembly:

EDITED BY Craig... are these the photos you were trying to display?






ricochet

[ricochet]

Yup,  how'd you get them to post from what was given?  I tried 2 or three times the last two deleting after previewing and not seeing anything but the red x.  Man,  I was back and forth to the instructions and still gave up.

Thanks,

ricochet

[CraigArizona85248]

Ricochet,

Because I'm an "admin" I can modify anyone's post.  So I went into "modify" mode and from there was able to see where you were trying to pull the images from.  I went to your public photobucket account and took my best guess at which pictures you were trying to post.  The problem was that you did not have the complete URL to the photos between the "img" tags.  There was enough there to lead me to your photobucket space, but the photo specific info was missing.

Posting photobucket images should be super easy (same service I use).  If you put the mouse over the photo you should see a box appear below the photo.  It will have up to four lines below it.  One if the lines is labeled "IMG CODE".  Cut and paste the information from the IMG CODE line into your post and the photo should appear.

See this screen capture from my photobucket account... if I click in the box circled in red I can then copy and paste the image code to my message.


-Craig

[ricochet]

In my last couple of attempts (not posted) that's what I was trying using the IMG code as you show.  I inserted that whole string in between the brackets but when previewed just got the red x again.  Was I not supposed to use the brackets?  It was easier using the IMG code versus going into properties.

ricochet

[ricochet]

Here, I'll try another:





OK, I think I got it.

ricochet

[stroker800]

  Ricochet,,,,,I really enjoyed the pics of the motor,,,I mean really, really enjoyed them,,,( damn I'm sick)..OK  I have looked at the Accurate blocks before ,,,,kinda pricey and don't Know if they oil the shafts any better...Also who makes there rockers ,,,,baisley will weld up "your" rockers and convert them to rollers for you...I have got home at X mas and have worked on my design of roller set up,,,hopin to get to the machinist and have him start millin up the rocker block ,,,,hard to get time ,,workin away from home again..I will post some pics sooon.
Dave

[ricochet]

Yes, I'm a sick puppy too. 

Those rocker assemblies are too much $.  I do believe that Baisley does the modification to stock rocker assemblies for Accurate.  They remove the regular arm and weld the roller arm end onto it. The shaft has 2 oiling holes.  Not sure who does that but Accurate makes or sources the blocks.

I had considered the Baisley ones.  They'll either do your rockers or supply rockers that they buy and then modify.  That's not an inexpensive proposition either way and you still have to find the blocks.

ricochet

[Pzokes]

I have one concern about this motor.  When John Harman built the original big cubic inch Shovelheads (up to 140cu in), he had problems with the piston weight of the heavy Shovel/Pan domed piston causing excessive vibration.  The motors would shake themselves apart.  Are your STD heads using the Evo style combustion chambers and Evo style flat top pistons to keep the piston weight down?

[Reddog74usa]

Pzokes, good question. I always wondered if it was possible to modify a set of panheads to a evo or tc cumbustion chaimber then run a set of flat top pistons resulting in a smoother more efficient running engine.

[stroker800]

  STD does do an evo combustion chamber for bout $100.00 xtra,,,there is talk of valves bein schrouded by the squish area and extra heat build up...I have no proof of either just hear say....As far as the motors shaken themselve to death,,,my Harman motor had 454 chevy pistons made by Arias,,,a set of torque monster flywheels are the way to go....My motor man owns the motor now and has made a few passes down the strip with it,,,the motor was stroked ...I haven't seen it run yet.
Dave

[Pzokes]

stroker800,

I've heard one unsubstantiated internet rumor about the STD Bathtub Panheads, but have seen nothing to back it up.....I haven't even seen a set in person.

Good to hear that the Harmon motor runs smooth with "Torque Monsters".  Were the Chevy 454 pistons flat tops with piston reliefs?

I would like to see the inside of Accurate Engineering's 120" Panhead to see what they are doing.

[ricochet]

I can tell you this.  If you waited for STD to make up a set of Evo chambered Panheads you'ld be waiting a real long time.  That was the route I wanted to go but because it invloves changing valve geometries as well as the different castings it was beyond their desire to do them.  Note I say desire, not capability.  What I have ended up with is massaged hemi heads with a squish band corresponding to machined Axtell 30 deg pistons.  T & O matched their ballancing to these weights for the crank assembly.  All is designed for dual plug.

ricochet

[stroker800]

Pzokes,,,the way I found out bout the evo combustion chambered heads was from ordering my own ,,,I was in a hurry and tryin too get the dual plugged and Pand P done before I came outta IL...I believe I was dealin with the daughter and she had stated the combustion chamber was one option the shops older catalogue didn't offer...If I had known,,,I would tried too order...I will see if my motor guy took pics of the Harman.
Dave