Starting update

[04customking]

Since the last update here's where I am. I removed the Power Arc ign and distributor and put the single point manual adv. timer back in and bought a coil since I didn't have one. I'm still figuring out what it wants to start cold but I can always get it running. If it hasn't started in 4 or 5 kicks I hold the throttle open and it fires after a few more kicks. Would hardly ever do that with the elec. ign.. I could kick forever and no luck. The biggest difference I see is in how good it runs going down the road. This bike is way more driveable than before. It pulls good now with no sign of hesitation or little backfires out the carb. That wasn't a big problem but it doesn't do it at all now. Hot start wasn't too much of a problem with the P/A either, but now it seems better. So, I'll keep riding her and see if this holds true but for whatever reason, I think I have a very expensive paperweight. Here's hoping  

[stroker800]

  i put an electronic timer(vulcan/motorway) in my pan,,,I had never tried the points set up,,motor was built wit stock cases ,S&S,STD  basically a shovelhead,,,,Some days it started first kick,,,somedays busted leg kickin...This is the 3rd elect timer I ave installed over the last couple yrs,,,seem to work best with starter...
Dave

[CraigArizona85248]

Jim,

If you want you can send your P/A to me and I'll hook it up and try it in my panhead.  If it runs bad, you'll know it's a bad igntion.  Easy for me to do since I already have the Spyke distributor installed.

-Craig

[poorbiker]

04
Dont want to go over old ground, but, if you have idle set pretty low for that good lope we all like you will need to hold the throttle open a little when starting, you probably know that. All other things being equal, ign. timing and all, mine takes three -what I call timing kicks- to get engine on front comp. stroke, kicking hard is useless till then, waiting a few seconds while some comp bleeds off between kicks  is very helpfull also, easy does it. There all diff. but one of mine likes three squirts cold no choke, and throttle a little open, and just throttle a little open when hot.
There is only one kick that counts, we all see guys wind up like in a movie and kick the crap out of it for 15-20 kicks, every kick harder than the last, makes no sense, though I have been that mad. Front piston if its timed that way has to be in its comp stroke, all other kicks are just to get it back there. Unless you have a starter which continually and with rpm gets it back fast every time,, lol. Just throwing this crap out there, dont know how many kickers only you have had, maybe more than me, but hopefully something may help, PS, I`m running the Vulcan dist. one kick every time since I figured out all my issues, not the bikes, lol.....

[04customking]

Craig, that would be great. If you pm me your addy I'll send it out to you. Thanks for the offer.

[Pzokes]

You don't need to make it a paperweight.  If it tests good and you are still not happy with it, I would be interested in buying it. I've had good luck with the one that I have on my electric start Fatso motor since 2005.  It may work good my 61 Panhead that I converted to electric start.

[CraigArizona85248]

Craig, that would be great. If you pm me your addy I'll send it out to you. Thanks for the offer.

Check your PMs.

[04customking]

Poorbiker, thanks for the response. I think I've tried most ways to kick this beast. It never hurts to have someone review or refresh my memory. Don't ever feel you can't suggest things. I'm anxious to see what it does on Craigs bike.
Pzokes, thanks for the offer to buy it but if it runs fine on Craigs I will probably have to keep trying to make it work for me. I may have to put things away for awhile, like sharp objects, but I can't put them away for ever.

[CraigArizona85248]

Jim,

I'm looking forward to getting this ignition in my grubby hands and running it through some tests.  It's just one of those "unsolved mysteries" that I'd like to see us get to the bottom of.  Please send along the coil too?  If it checks out OK on my bike, then I'll really be scratching my head to understand why it's giving you fits.

In the mean time, I hope you get some enjoyable miles in on your panhead.  I hate to see it frustrating you.

You all will probably think I'm crazy, but I shelled out the $$$ for a completely programable PowerArc ignition today.  This is their latest IDS C-2 single fire ignition (the replacement for the CDR that Jim and I have).  The ignition I bought is used for developing new software for the module.  You can completely control the advance curve, when the multiple sparks fire, etc.  It's kind of pricey, but I love "tinkering" with stuff.  I need to modify my spyke distributor just slightly for this new module to fit, but I think it will be a fun new toy.

-Craig

[04customking]

Craig, I knew you'd do it, just a matter of time. Good luck with it. I am sending the ign this morning along with a note and a copy of the instructions Perry sent me. Note that the wiring diagram says black is front cylinder but the diagram shows it going to the rear and the same for the white wire. Then states later that they need to be reversed for a distributor. You're diagram you posted on another of my questions shows the wires different colors but at least labels where they go correctly. Anyway, do what you want with it and let me know. Thanks again for doing this. That's above and beyond.

[CraigArizona85248]

Jim,

Recieved the ignition today.  Just unpacked it and did a visual inspection.  I noticed the screws on the back of the module are corroded (like they were exposed to moisture) and there is what looks like rust stains on the rotor.  To the best of your knowledge has the module been exposed to a lot of moisture?  None of my ignitions have ever looked like this, but we are dry as a bone here (even in the garage).  Second thing I noticed on visual inspection is that the wire bundle seemed to be crimped by the strain relief on the module.  I removed the black casing and sure enough, the white wire (Front Cyl Trigger) had a chaff in it exposing the wire.  Probably not a problem because it was all encased in the black outer cover and no other wires were chaffed, but I'll check all the wires for continuity to make sure there are no unexposed breaks.

Came down with a head cold late on Sunday so I probably won't actually try installing the module until late in the week or the weekend.  That will give me a chance to go through all the connections and run any "bench" tests that I can.

-Craig

[04customking]

Craig, first off don't worry about the time. I'm in no hurry with that ign. Get better first. I noticed the red "rust" too. I washed the bike and we have had a lot of rain here so that's where that comes from. After that first wash I covered the distributor with a bag. The reason I sent the whole thing back to Gary was because I saw that I crimped the harness under the terminal block behind the coil. He looked at it and said it was fine and the ign checked out ok. I told him all the troubles I was having and all he said was that it worked on his tester. I know that the bike is running pretty darn good now and I can start it all the time, but I also know that you are going to tell me that it works fine on yours. I just know it. I really appreciate you taking the time to check it. Any thing else just let me know.

[CraigArizona85248]

OK!  Well... the timing on Jim sending me his ignition was perfect.  LOL  I left the house today and about 50 miles from home (on my way back) I got a couple misfires and a carb sneeze.  Hmmm... odd... the only time I've had the carb sneeze running down the freeway was when my ignition wasn't advanced far enough.  Then a few more misfires... got to within a couple miles of home and I stopped for gas.  No start.  Ignition dead.  Looks like the heat finally got it.  Waited for it to cool off and it started but quit within a couple minutes again as it warmed back up.  Went home and grabbed Jims ignition.  Installed it in the parking lot of the Chevron station.. wiring looks like crap cause I didn't want to cut Jim's wires short.  LOL  Started on the first kick.  So... the good news is that Jim's ignition works great as far as I can tell (performed great on the road too).  My new programable PowerArc ignition arrived in the mail yesterday but I haven't had a chance to become familiar with it so installing Jim's ignition was much easier.  I'm gonna run Jim's for a week and see if it gives me any trouble at all.

By the way... the only part of Jim's ignition I installed was the module.  I'm using my old rotor and my coils.  Makes me wonder if your coil was the culprit.

-Craig

[CraigArizona85248]

Update... ran around doing some errands this afternoon.  Got the bike plenty warm, lots of stop and go traffic.  The ignition performed perfect.  Started on one kick each time I needed to move on to the next place.  Dialed the timing in a little better then what I was able to do at the Chevron station before I left.  Made it run a bit better (more power before the advance kicked in).

-Craig

[04customking]

Craig, I knew you were going to tell me that. I just knew it. Gary had my coil too and said it was fine. I don't know. I can go out right now, in fact wait a minute, I will see. Yup, two and a half twists, two prime kicks and started on the second ign on kick. That is with leaving the timer in the advanced pos. also. Runs really good too. I was away for the weekend in the Adirondacks so it hasn't been started since Friday. Feel free to run it as long or as little as you want. Not sure what I'll do when I get it back anyways. I'm glad you had mine to put in yours. What luck. I wish I had some of that.

[CraigArizona85248]

Jim,

Well, I guess the important thing is that you have something that is working good for you!  And with a bike like yours (much closer to stock then mine), the stock timer and coil is a nice touch.  I'll probably run you ignition at least until the weekend.  By then I'll have been able to play around with programing this new IDS ignition and will have come up with an advance cure I want to start with.

I'm sure if you decide you want to part with this CDR module and your Spyke distributor, you won't have any difficulty finding a buyer.  Pzokes already expressed interest above.  If he decides to pass, consider me next in line.

Oh... and I put about 200 miles on the bike today.  Starting was easy at all stops (first kick at all except one stop, took two kicks).

-Craig

[04customking]

Craig, I will more than likely keep it. I know I will want to find out why I was having a problem. What did you make of the instruction sheet? Did you follow what I was saying about the module to coil wiring? It says rear cyl but has the wire going to the front and vice versa? Then tells me they should be reversed for the distributor. I think I tried it both ways but which way did you hook them? Keep it until you get the new one dialed in, no sense it giving me that one back and then having a problem with the new one. When you're ready to send it back I'll paypal you the shipping. Do you have paypal?

[CraigArizona85248]

Don't worry about the shipping money Jim.  Consider it rental of your module 

Those instructions are messed up, that's for sure.  The correct wiring is White -> Front Trigger, Black -> Rear trigger.  Unfortunately, when they modified the standard nose cone instructions for "Distributor" hookup, they forgot to change the all labels in the schematic part of the instructions.  That's why the picture does not match the instructions.  The Black wire in the instructions should be labeled "Black Rear Cylinder" and the White wire should be labeled "White Front Cylinder".  Details, details... LOL

BUT... if you reverse the wires, the engine can't even run badly.  It shouldn't be able to run at all under those conditions.

Also, your instructions totally left out the bit about grounding the Blue (VOES) wire if you are not using a VOES.  I already sent a modified set of instructions to Perry (with all these corrections) so that he'd have them to send out in the future.

-Craig

[04customking]

I must say it kind of pissed me off that "they" (I don't know where they came from) sent those misleading instructions. Like I said, don't feel hurried to get it back to me. I do want to try again but it'll be awhile. Fair enough on the shipping if that is ok with you but I'll be more than happy to pay for it since you did me a favor. Glad it worked out for you too. Thanks

[poorbiker]

04,
What ohm coil are you running, just a long shot. Is yours a single or dual fire ign.. I know that running the wrong ohm coil will cause all sorts of issues up to coil and ignition damage. I`m running a dual fire with a 3 ohm coil, both trigger wires on one side and dist. red and power on the other. Ignition can be run as single or dual with correct ohm coil. I didnt read, are you running carbon core wires. I`m curious now. Stupid question, there isnt a resistor some where still on the bike.

[CraigArizona85248]

I've got Jim's coil and measured it out at 3ohms.  It's a single fire coil.  Basically it's two independent coils in one package.  There is a 12V power connection and two trigger connectors on the coil.  Definitely the correct coil for the CDR ignition.  Jim, I assume you are using the Taylor carbon core plug wires that came with the kit, right?

-Craig

[04customking]

Yes, I'm using the kit from Perry. Like Craig says, correct single fire coil and correct wires and non-resistor plugs. My computer has taken a crap so I can't get on here very often till I get it fixed or replaced. Borrowed this laptop temporarilly.

[CraigArizona85248]

Jim, are you sure your plugs are non-resistor type?  The instructions say to use a "resistor type" plug.  I believe the stock plugs for a panhead are resistor type.

-Craig

[04customking]

They are resistor plugs. Not sure what I was thinking. Presently, Autolite 85's or HD 4r's. Sorry about that.