REPRINTED FROM OLD HTT: PANICKED STURGIS IS COMING UP 2002 RKC ENGINE MISSING

[ClassicRider2002]

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS A REPRINT TOPIC FROM "OLD" HTT

I have saved many great topical discussions as "links" over the years and would hate to see these lost, so I am reprinting this TOPIC here, which may "perhaps" help some.

TOPIC:  PANICKED---STURGIS IS COMING UP 2002 RKC ENGINE IS MISSING HELP PLEASE!!!! 07-23-07



From: ClassicRider2002  (Original Message) Sent: 7/23/2007 10:39 PM

August 2005

Model:
2002 RKC
Stock Engine
Andrews 26G Gear Driven Cams
V&H True Dual Heat Exchange & V&H Oval Slip Ons
Power Commander PC III USB
Mileage:  15,100 miles

Symptom:
After a long trip from Sturgis 60 miles from home, bike begins missing and coughing, at which point it actually ends up running on one cylinder for about 20 miles and then it clears up and runs normally.

Solution:
Take it immediately to my independent mechanic and after three weeks of sitting there, trying different things….(spark plugs) (spark plug wires) etc.  They determine that a new coil is needed so a new coil is installed.  Bike runs well. End of problem.  (Or so I think....because upon present day reflection it has always seemed to me to have periods of very very slight hesitancy you know when driving through a community at say a consistent 35 miles an hour where you are keeping the rpms at 3,000 and it has those isolated moments where there is some level of hesitancy...it's the old adage...of this is what I am use to so it must be normal type of thing.....but who knows if that is normal....)


July 2007

Model:
2002 RKC  (same bike)

Engine Changed In Spring to 95” gerolamy heads ported and polished, Wiseco 9:1 Flat Top Pistons, .40 Cometic Head Gaskets, S&S 570 Cams  Over all compression right around 9.25:1
Super Trapp Super Meg 2:1
Power Commander PC III USB
After installation bike has run well.  Running a map from Power Commander haven’t had it dynoed for best map…but it’s running fairly well getting 45 mph
Riding Elevation is from 5,000 â€" 12,000 feet
Current Mileage: 20,500

Recently took a 5 day trip involving 4 days of riding covering 1,600 miles riding in elevations from 5,000 to 12,000 feet.  The first complete day the bike performed as normal. 2nd day filled tank at noon in a mountain town with premium road a couple of blocks and got some lunch…45 minutes later ready to take off.  After lunch outside temperature was 97 degrees and about 10 miles from where bike was parked for lunch was riding in 4 gear around 67 mph and began to fill slight miss….a hesitancy…..knowing what my memorable experience above was I was keeping a watchful eye and feel.  I immediately thought bad gas….so I ran it another 202 miles and filled up when the bike was on reserve.  Filled up and same thing kept occurring.  Got to our destination and turned the bike off.  Next day another 230 miles and it did it again off and on, nothing consistent.  Just when you felt you could pin point when it was doing it…it wouldn’t or just when you thought it was over it would do it again type of thing.

Next day pull spark plugs, nothing unusual, but decide to go purchase some 6r12’s at a dealership, With about a 500 mile trip to return home, got up and decided to change spark plugs when it began missing 1 mile from hotel, changed them.  Then it became within just a few more blocks decided to get some spark plug wires just in case before leaving the town we were in. 30 minutes later back on the road….once again a few more blocks and it started doing it again.  A couple of days previous I had already contacted another dealer about 200 miles away that had a new coil just in case I needed one....so I eventually called the dealer and asked them to sit it outside for me since I would arrive after they closed.  Put the new coil on.  Road 30 miles perfectly and then began missing again….just as before, so apparently not the spark plugs, spark plug wires, or the coil….about 153 miles from home at 8:30pm at nite got our last fuel fill up. Bike began running perfectly and not missing at all…We go over the highest continuous paved road in America (Trail Ridge) at 11:30pm at nite and the bike continues to run perfectly.  Come all the way down the canyon and we turn off the bikes to chat at 1:00am.  Still no issues….So I begin thinking cooler part of the day it must be heat related……then finally make the final 20 mile trek home…..4 blocks from home…..the bike reminds me all is still not well….as it begins missing again…..so problem still not solved.

Let the bike sit for a week….sort of bummed out…you know….what’s wrong with it sort of thing….Sturgis is coming up so now is the time to get this thing fixed….another 1,400 mile trip in front of me….So last Thursday, I have a buddy come over and I decide that I want to put the “old” coil back on since there was no change between the coils, we change the 5 connections…4 spark plug wires, and the wire connector to the coil, I pull off the 7 other sensor connections including the two injector connector pins….and put dialectic grease on them…(you know that clear stuff harley sells in a small tube…electrical connection stuff)….make sure everything is snapped back into position.  I purchase some Red Line S-1 fuel additive that has some detergents in it for injectors thinking perhaps still something with fuel….So we get this all done….rotate the gas tank inorder to pull off the spark plug cables to the coil to get the grease on there and change coils…..and the next day I take it for a ride…..and on my way to the station to get gas after about 4 blocks of riding the bike has really developed a problem….huge problem….as it turns out it’s only running on one cylinder (although I don’t realize this yet) I stop get the gas put the additive in…and take off.  I go about 3 miles and the bike stalls out when I have to stop at a red light…I can’t restart it for about 2 minutes….get it started and get out of the intersection….go another half mile stop the bike…..Then I ride it 3 miles to my independent mechanic’s for him to tell me what’s going on….It’s here he tells me I am running on one cylinder…and that I am not getting spark to my front cylinder…..and that’s the bottom line…..I ride the bike home….on one cylinder about 2 miles….let it cool down, buddy comes back over….The only thing we do this time is remove all 4 spark plug connections, check the spark plugs, the front cylinder plug is wet so I know it's getting fuel via the injector..the rear cylinder plug is perfect looking....so then we check for spark which we were not getting any with either coil, I decide no sense going back to new coil so I stay with the old coil.  Start bike and decide to run iit again it runs perfectly for 10 mles...Saturday and Sunday go out for two rides and thus far in over 200 miles of riding the bike only experienced two episodes of hesitancy…one each day lasting a quarter of a mile and another time lasting 2 seconds….and other than that has run perfectly.

Knowing that I wanted to take the tank off the bike and begin searching for what is the problem….via wires etc….I decided to have as little fuel as possible left in the bike….when I got home on Sunday afternoon I knew I was down to about 4-5 oz of fuel….(don’t ask me how I know).  It’s another 99 degree day. Bike was running for 70 miles before turning it off….got into the driveway turned the bike off….and I wanted to see if I had any fuel actually left….and when I turned the gas cap to remove it and got it basically off I heard this “swoosh” sound….as though the tank was under pressure, noting that very little if any gas was left I put the cap back on…within 45 seconds to a minute and half….I then began hearing what souned like a high pitched whistling sound….sounded like air rushing fast…I undid the gas cap and again “swoosh” sound reappeared….and seemed to be under pressure.  Didn’t do it a third time as I removed the gas cap about 5 minutes later and nothing happened.

So  here are my symptoms:

August 2005 hesitancy leading to running on one cylinder and coil was replaced.

2 years later and another 5,000 miles aprx experiencing same issue again…..

Questions:

1)  Any Idea what is going on?

2)  Are these both related and extended issues or entirely separate

3)  Is something going on with my gas tank?  Perhaps “cap”?  perhaps vent tube that apparently has a vapor lock check valve?

4)  I have over thirteen pages of notes from here at HTT talking about injector wires and perhaps intermittent problems with the wires?



I have just removed the complete EFI wiring harness from my bike it is now laying on the floor…..part number 70233-02 as I am now aware of from taking a peek in my 2002 Touring Parts book.  I did a quick check of Chicago HD to learn this is a $320.00 wiring harness…and comes complete….although I assume that is a extreme solution if it is even one at all..

So my question is can I take this “removed” wiring harness to my local dealer and can they tell me anything about what’s going on with it since I have removed it from the bike, perhaps letting me know if I have an injector wire problem for example?

So let’s say it is a front injector wire problem how in the heck do you get new wires in there specifically, into that lloom?

You know I feel like I have had this problem for over 2 years and it’s just coming to a head persay…..As I try to reflect I can count numerous times when I find myself going 30 miles an hour through town…keeping the rpms at 3,000 and feeling within so many blocks moments of hesitancy and I wonder if this is all a consistent theme or if you all feel that is normal….

So what do I do now?  As you know to remove that efi harness you also separate all of the sensors from the wire connections as well…Would you all just put on a new EFI harness and be done with it or would you……….?

The questions are endless….all I know is I love this bike and I don’t want to have this hesitancy going on which has for one day turned into a all out one cylinder bike back to a perfectly running bike….by the way if one does cross the coil wires from the rear cylinder to the front cylinder is that the result?  Is that what may have happened when I had that really extreme running problem of just operating on only one cylinder….

I know this post is extremely long….I am really sorry…..I am just trying to avoid the comments that say check your spark plug wires, your cables, (even though I have INDEED purchased new OEM STOCK spark plug cables and intend to put them on next….I had to purchase screamin eagle ones when I replaced them as they didn’t have stock) or check your fuel…..

Also the manual says to replace one’s fuel filter canister every 25,000 miles so I plan on changing this as well…..good idea? needed? not needed? thoughts?

I have also read in HTT in back information about some sort of "kit" Local GM dealer makes a injector connector repair kit for less than $15.00. GM part # 12085491; available at any auto parts jobber that carries AC-Delco. ,<~~~~copied from a post on HTT....Does anyone know about this? is this a solution?  I am fishing here guys....help!!!!!!

I am getting panicked....as Sturgis is around the corner...any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

"Classic”

[ClassicRider2002]

From: JW_113 Sent: 7/23/2007 11:45 PM    Message 2 of 21 in Discussion 
Convert it to a carburetor.
-JW


From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 7/24/2007 12:05 AM   Message 3 of 21 in Discussion
Ha Ha Ha Ha.....
ok now that the jokes have begun.......goes to the corner and waits for some real help.....
It's late I shouldn't even be on here so....did you really need to say that?
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Hoping for some serious help.....

"Classic"
     

From: apehangga Sent: 7/24/2007 2:08 AM   Message 4 of 21 in Discussion
If you had SERT you could check on any errorx logged otherwise follow the instructions below. You will have to reharness the bike.
FWIW I think the harness is the least of your problems and I would focus on the PCIII and then the ECU and then...

...........................................................................

The IM (instrument module) is capable of displaying DTC's (diagnostic
trouble codes).

Speedometer Self Diagnostics: The speedometer is capable of displaying
and clearing speedometer, tachometer, TSM/TSSM and ICM/ECM Diagnostic
Trouble Codes (DTC).

1- Turn Ignition switch to OFF & Run/Stop switch is to Run.
2- Push odometer reset button in & hold.
3- Turn ignition switch to Ignition and release odometer reset button.
Background lighting sould illuminate, speedometer needle should sweep
its full rangeand indicator lamps (battery, security, low fuel, check engine and
cruise) should illuminate. The word "diag" should then appear.
4 - Push the odometer reset button once and you will see the selection
menu "PSSPt" with the first P flashing.
5 - Each letter represents an area of the diagnostics module. The
module that is flashing is the one you are going to check. To move
from one letter (module) to the next, you push the odometer reset button one time. (from P to S
to SP to t and back to P, etc.)

P = ECM/ICM (Electronic Control Module (EFI) / (Ignition Control Module, 'Carbureted')
S = TSM/TSSM (Turn Signal/ Turn Signal Security Module)
SP = speedometer
T = tachometer

6 - To get the DTC within an area of diagnostics, push and hold the
odometer reset button in for 5 seconds and release. If there are any
DTC's the code will be displayed or the word "none" will appear if there are no DTC's. Push
the odometer reset button again to view additional codes if they
exist.
7 - Record the codes.
8 - If DTC's are not to be cleared, Press and release the odometer
reset button. Part number of module will be displayed.
NOTE: To determine if a code is current or historic, clear the
displayed code by pushing in and holding the odometer reset button (
longer than 5 seconds) until 'clear' comes up.
Release the odometer reset button. Turn OFF the ignition switch. Run
your bike and shut it down then recheck the DTC's again by repeating
steps 1 to 9. If the code is current it will reappear.
9 â€" Press and release the odometer reset button to continue to the
next module.
10 â€" Turn Ignition switch to OFF.

--------------------------

DTC FAULT CONDITION MODULE

B0563 Battery Voltage High TSM/TSSM
B1004 Fuel Level Sending Unit Low Instruments
B1005 Fuel Level Sending Unit High/Open Instruments
B1006 Accessory Line Overvoltage Instruments
B1007 Ignition Line Overvoltage Instruments
B1008 Reset Switch Closed Instruments
B1131 Alarm Output Low TSM/TSSM
B1132 Alarm Output High TSM/TSSM
B1134 Starter Output High TSM/TSSM
B1135 Accelerometer Fault TSM/TSSM
B1151 Sidecar BAS Low TSM/TSSM
B1152 Sidecar BAS High TSM/TSSM
B1153 Sidecar BAS Out of Range TSM/TSSM
P0106 MAP Sensor Rate of Range Error Carb
P0107 Map Sensor Failed Open/Low Carb
P0107 Map Sensor Open/Low EFI
P0108 Map Sensor Failed High Carb
P0108 Map Sensor High EFI
P0112 IAT Sensor Voltage Low EFI
P0113 IAT Sensor Voltage Open/High EFI
P0117 ET Sensor Voltage Low EFI
P0118 ET Sensor Voltage Open/High EFI
P0122 TP Sensor Open/Low EFI
P0123 TP Sensor High EFI
P0261 Front Injector Open/Low EFI
P0262 Front Injector High EFI
P0263 Rear Injector Open/Low EFI
P0264 Rear Injector High EFI
P0373 CKP Sensor Intermittent Carb
P0373 CKP Sensor Intermittent EFI
P0374 CKP Sensor Not Detected Carb
P0374 CKP Sensor Synch Error EFI
P0501 VSS Low Carb
P0501 VSS Low EFI
P0502 VSS High/Open Carb
P0502 VSS High/Open EFI
P0505 Loss of Idle Sped Control EFI
P0562 Battery Voltage Low Carb
P0562 Battery Voltage Low EFI
P0563 Battery Voltage High Carb
P0563 Battery Voltage High EFI
P0602 Calibration Memory Error Carb
P0603 EEPROM Failure Carb
P0603 ECM EEPROM Error EFI
P0604 RAM Failure Carb
P0605 Program Memory Error Carb
P0605 ECM Flash Error EFI
P0607 Converter Error Carb
P1001 System Relay Coil Open/Low EFI
P1002 System relay Coil High/Shorted EFI
P1003 System relay Contacts Open EFI
P1004 System Relay Contacts Closed EFI
P1009 Incorrect Password Carb
P1009 Incorrect Password EFI
P1010 Missing Password Carb
P1010 Missing Password EFI
P1351 Front Ignition Open/Low Carb
P1351 Front Ignition Open/Low EFI
P1352 Front Ignition Coil High/Shorted Carb
P1352 Front Ignition Coil High/Shorted EFI
P1353 Front Cylinder No Combustion EFI
P1354 Rear Ignition Coil Open/Low Carb
P1354 Rear Ignition Coil Open/Low EFI
P1355 Rear Ignition Coil High/Shorted Carb
P1355 Rear Ignition Coil High/Shorted EFI
P1356 Rear Cylinder No Combustion EFI
P1357 Intermittent Secondary Front EFI
P1358 Intermittent Secondary Rear EFI
U1016 Loss of ICM/ECM Serial Data Instruments
U1016 Loss of ECM Serial Data, Vehicle Speed, Vehicle Inhibit Motion
or Powertrain Security Status TSM/TSSM
U1064 Loss of TSM/TSSM Serial Data Carb
U1064 Loss of TSM/TSSM Serial Data EFI
U1064 Loss of TSM/TSSM Serial Data Instruments
U1097 Loss of Speedometer Serial data Carb
U1097 Loss of Speedometer Serial data EFI
U1097 Loss of Speedometer Serial data TSM/TSSM
U1255 Missing Message at Speedometer EFI
U1255 Serial Data Error/Missing Message EFI
U1255 Serial Data Error/Missing Message Instruments
U1255 Serial Data Error/Missing Message TSM/TSSM
U1300 Serial Data Low Carb
U1300 Serial Data Low EFI
U1300 Serial Data Low Instruments
U1300 Serial Data Low TSM/TSSM
U1301 Serial Data Open/High Carb
U1301 Serial Data Open/High EFI
U1301 Serial Data Open/High Instruments
U1301 Serial Data Open/High TSM/TSSM

-----------------------
AFR â€" Air Fuel Ratio
ATS â€" Air Temperature Sensor
BAS â€" Bank Angle Sensor
CCM â€" Cruise Control Module
CKP â€" Crank Position Sensor. The CKP generates an "AC signal" which is
sent to the ECM where it is used to reference engine position (TDC)
and speed.
DTC â€" Diagnostic Trouble Codes
ECM â€" Electronic Control Module. (The Computer) Computes the spark
advance for proper ignition timing and fuel control based on sensor
inputs (from CKP, MAP & TP sensors) and controls the low-voltage circuits for
the ignition coils and injectors.
The dwell time for the ignition coil is also calculated in the
microprocessor and is dependent upon battery voltage. The programmed
dwell feature gives adequate spark at all speeds.
ECT â€" Engine Coolant Temperature. Sensor also controls the cooling fan
relay that provides 12 Vdc to the fans.
EFI â€" Electronic Fuel Injection
EFP â€" Electronic Fuel Pump
ET â€" Engine Temperature sensor
FI â€" Fuel Injectors
FPR â€" Fuel Pressure regulator
IAC â€" Idle Air Control actuator
IAT â€" Intake Air Temperature sensor
ISS â€" Ion Sensing System…detonation detection
MAP â€" manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. The MAP sensor monitors the
intake manifold pressure (vacuum) and sends the information to the
ECM.  The EMC then adjusts the spark and fuel-timing advance curves for
optimum performance.
TP â€" Throttle Position Sensor
TSM/TSSM (Turn Signal/ Turn Signal Security Module)
VE â€" Volume Efficiency
VSS â€" Vehicle Speed Sensor. Used as an input for idle speed control
   

From: Ham_slammer Sent: 7/24/2007 5:27 AM  Message 5 of 21 in Discussion 
I don't think that the wiring to the injectors is the problem either. You stated that when you pulled the front plug it was wet, so that indicates as you correctly stated that the injector is working.  Look at the connector to the coil to make sure a prong is not bent.  If you have one of those spark plug covers / bridges of any type take it off, they are bad to cause misfires.  Make absolutly sure that the spark plug wires are all the way on the spark plug, had the round chrome covers that slip over the plug and it was holding the wire off the plug enough to cause a very slight miss.  If these all check out start with the PC and the ECM.  Ham


From: apitbullpapa Sent: 7/24/2007 5:30 AM   Message 6 of 21 in Discussion
have you tried replacing the power commander ignition? if thats not the problem you can always sell it on ebay good luck 


From: Dakota Sent: 7/24/2007 6:20 AM  Message 7 of 21 in Discussion
You state that it's a stock engine with 26 cams and exhaust changes. I'd remove the PC and see how it runs. Should be all right to run it as you didn't state you had a free flowing AC and no other changes to the engine. If you do have a free flowing AC, just put the stock one back on.
I screwed up my wife's PC by where I mounted it and her bike died and then would restart and then would die a little bit later and then restart after a while. (learned a lesson-be very careful where you mount it-I've got a SERT ordered now.) Finally wouldn't restart. Luckily she was close to home and I trailered it home. Removed the PC and every thing was good to go. Put the stock AC back on and she's ran it over 2000 miles. 


From: roadkingtrooper Sent: 7/24/2007 6:47 AM  Message 8 of 21 in Discussion
Don't believe it is necessary to replace entire harness. I don't think the coils you replaced were bad either. As Ham Slammer stated, some accessories can cause problems. I seem to remember Grumpy describing a similar problem on his ride. IIRC he was directed to a broken/bad connection on his coil which he repaired.
I think you have an intermittent electrial Gremlin. Best of luck   RKT


Sent: 7/24/2007 8:44 AM   Message 9 of 21 in Discussion
This message has been deleted by the author.


From: drs23rk Sent: 7/24/2007 9:13 AM   Message 10 of 21 in Discussion
Classic,

I'd have to agree that it's more than likely not your harness. The only thing that I can recall thema having an issue with was the injector wire being too short for the front injector. Seen several of those.

I have had PCs go TU but not nearly as many IIIrs compared to the first gen PCIIs. The USB have been out for seveal years now and haven't personally had a warrenty issue with one since they did the patch for the firmware a couple of years ago. (Causing a stumble)

After elimnating the PC as the source of your problem I'd look into the CKP as they will present the same symptoms.

HTH


From: fltri Sent: 7/24/2007 9:23 AM   Message 11 of 21 in Discussion
What drs23rk said:
"The USB have been out for seveal years now and haven't personally had a warrenty issue with one since they did the patch for the firmware a couple of years ago. (Causing a stumble)"
Is it possible you have one of the early PCIIIUSB units that need updating? You should be able to call
Dynojet and find out by the number on your unit.
Hope this helps, Bob


From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 7/24/2007 9:55 AM   Message 12 of 21 in Discussion
hey guys thank you for the input......so far.....

I will check with dyno jet in the next few moments to see if I have one of the older units that could be stumbling.....

while I have the harness off....wouldn't it still be a good idea to see if those injector wires are ok.....and if you all agree is that something I can take to the dealership and they can test them for me.....I mean they are off the bike currently....might as well make sure all the wiring is good right? 

I really feel the injector itself is working ok,(but I don't know that for sure) because of the wetness of the plug when I removed it from the front cylinder....but that still could mean I have an injector wire intermitent wire issue right?

I also wondered since I don't have the "perfect" dynoed "map" for this bike whether I could be lean in certain situations.....causing it to stumble....although that doesn't explain the "apparent" loss of the coil two years ago....I brought up my symptoms from two years ago just in case any of you see a related issue.....although the one from 2 years ago was "bam" and it pretty much went to one cylinder all within 5-7 miles of when the first hestiancy happened...resulting in the coil being replaced....unfortunately I threw that coil away only just a few months ago....as I became tired of looking at it....it would be great to have it now and put it on to see what would happen......

if anyone has other ideas I would appreciate them.....

I am staring at a bike that has the oem efi wiring harness off of it....gas tank off....(no one has commented about the issue with the gas tank yet that I mentioned in the original post...I know it's a very long stupid post) knowing that if I were to go out for a 400 mile ride at some point this bike is going to begin missing....with a hestiancy....and I don't like that....it's just not right....

I have replaced spark plugs no change
I have replaced spark plug wires from Taylors over to screamin eagle ones and still had symptoms of hesitancy as before they were changed...I have read enough on here from others to only run oem stock spark plug cables so I have them now and I haven't put them on yet but I will be running them before the bike fires up again.  Also running the 6r12 stock spark plug as well.
replaced coil no change.....meaning that the symptoms continued to show back up intermittently so I am back to running old coil for the time being.

Not every sensor I have is going to specifically relate to my symptom....so I have read that the CKP presents similar issues....so can one pull that off and have it checked.

As you can see I have no confidence that taking my bike to the dealer, just absolutely none....but am willing to take the harness or a sensor if they are able to tell me it's bad or not....

If I am chasing a wire gremlin...well it has to be in the harness somewhere and it has to be the wires associated to something specific.....

The hour glass is slipping by....and NO I am not changing this bike to CARB!!!  Fuel INJECTION IS JUST FINE.....

Regards,

"Classic"


From: dakota224 Sent: 7/24/2007 10:09 AM   Message 13 of 21 in Discussion
check the in gas tank fuel line for a pin hole..


From: RVGRG Sent: 7/24/2007 10:11 AM   Message 14 of 21 in Discussion
First off let me say that I'm an absolute moron regarding F I. Now that that's established I would check the fuel tank venting line for kinks or blockage. If  you can get it to do it while riding again I would, while riding reach down and open your gas cap while riding and see if this has any effect. If the tank gets either slightly presureised or under vacum I would think that it would play hell with the F I.
 

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 7/24/2007 10:54 AM   Message 15 of 21 in Discussion
Call to dyno jet revealed my unit as no "firmware" issues....so that's now out of the link....obviously what I am experiencing might sill be a mapping lean or richness issue....I am not trying to side track the thought patterns here...just trying to eliminate or include things to check....

Regards,

"Classic"
     

From: f-x-d-w-g Sent: 7/24/2007 11:18 AM   Message 16 of 21 in Discussion
From all the symptoms you've mentioned it sounds like an ignition problem (front plug wet with gas).  I doubt the dealer has a test rig to check the harness.  Since the harness is off the bike, hold your ohmmeter probes on both ends if the injector wire (use the circuit diagram in the service manual to determine which wires) and have your wife wiggle the harness over the length of the wire.  If you get no indications of an open circuit (high resistance), then the harness is probably fine.  Make the same check on the front ignition wire from the ECM to the coil.  If there's a problem in the harness, I'll bet it's there.  Finally, put it all back together and run it WITHOUT the Power Commander.  I'm betting your glitch is there.  Good luck!

[ClassicRider2002]

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 7/24/2007 12:49 PM    Message 17 of 21 in Discussion 
      From: f-x-d-w-g Sent: 7/24/2007 11:18 AM
From all the symptoms you've mentioned it sounds like an ignition problem (front plug wet with gas).  I doubt the dealer has a test rig to check the harness.  Since the harness is off the bike, you are correct here called this morning and that's what they essentially said....hold your ohmmeter probes on both ends if the injector wire this may be obvious but when you say hold a ohmmeter probe on both ends, at one end of the wire harness the injector wires split, with one wire going to the emc pin and the other end going to three places, the coil, the fuel pump 15a fuse and the system relay switch locations so how precisely do you mean to hold the "ohmmeter probes on both ends" (use the circuit diagram in the service manual to determine which wires) and have your wife wiggle the harness over the length of the wire.  If you get no indications of an open circuit (high resistance), then the harness is probably fine. <~~~~Plan on doing this with my son-in-law at some point today!
Make the same check on the front ignition wire from the ECM to the coil.  If there's a problem in the harness, I'll bet it's there.<~~~~~ will do this as well....I am assuming you are talking about the front injector wire that goes to the coil...?
Finally, put it all back together and run it WITHOUT the Power Commander.  I'm betting your glitch is there. <~~~~~thanks for this input as well, first of all....to really tell if this is where my "glitch" is isolated to, I would need ride, say, 400 miles on the bike in a day of riding.....as if I go out for say only a 50 mile ride....and it's smooth...whose to say that the "glitch" is in the power commander  becasue it's been doing this symptom off and on.....and without some sort of map and no flash change to my ECM thus running it stock, would that be a good idea to run the bike that long?

Good luck!   <~~~more like happy fishing......

Regards,

"Clasic" 

From: Faast Ed  Sent: 7/24/2007 3:35 PM   Message 18 of 21 in Discussion
Oh Crap! After reading the title of the string, I though somebody took his engine. LOL
     

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 7/24/2007 3:59 PM   Message 19 of 21 in Discussion
ha ha ha ha ha......
now back to our regularly scheduled programing......
   

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 7/24/2007 4:30 PM   Message 20 of 21 in Discussion
       From: RVGRG Sent: 7/24/2007 10:11 AM
I would check the fuel tank venting line for kinks or blockage. On this bike the venting tube is a hard plastic and not a rubber collapsable tube...so kinks are really an unlikely possiblity, however I suppose a "blockage" is also possible...but I have blown on the hose to verify no blockage.  I am still however concerned about the "Vapor Valve" which the venting tube after leaving the tank goes into approximately 20 inches down from the tank close to the battery box.  After the "Vapor Valve" the tube extends another 6-8" again the material of this tube is also a hard plastic and doesn't really appear to be prone towards collapsing either.  I am unclear of whether this "Vapor Valve" is working properly or not....but this is a point of concern just as the gas cap is perhaps as well as the convuluted tube that has the "check valve" assembly inclusive of the "flex tubing".  If this were to have a pin hole as mentioned above this might be a source for a "stumble" I suppose....but my "stumble" as has been described seems to be intermittent at best and not determined by fuel level

If  you can get it to do it while riding again I would, while riding reach down and open your gas cap while riding and see if this has any effect. If the tank gets either slightly presureised or under vacum I would think that it would play hell with the F I.

I am with you on this....what's really weird about what I mentioned above when bringing up the fuel tank episode is that prior to turning off the bike when arriving home...the previous 8 miles were without any symptoms at all and the bike ran normal.  As I said originally I knew I was going to be removing the gas tank so I was purposefully trying to "run" out as much fuel as possible and when I did eventually remove the gas tank yesterday there was like 5-6 oz left in the bike if that much.....so obviously I was extremely low....So I am wondering if what I "heard" and noticed with regards to the "whistling" type sound along with the noticable pressure release when I removed the gas cap was merely the result of basically having no fuel in it and this was/is normal under the circumstances, or if what I "heard" was the result of something wrong within the tank....regardless of how much fuel was in the bike....and if it is "wrong" then what would have caused such a "noticeable" happening, gas cap?  "Vapor Valve not performing correctly", a pin hole in the "check valve" flex tubing?  How does one know for sure if the "Vapor Valve" is working correctly.  <~~~And could all of this create my symptoms that I am experiencing?

Regards,

"Classic"


From: DeuceDoggie Sent: 7/24/2007 4:57 PM   Message 21 of 21 in Discussion
A small hole rubbed in the in-tank fuel line can cause intermittent problems. It results in a pressure loss to injectors that cause a lean running condition, growing worse as the hole gets bigger.  It can also cause stumbling, skipping, etc, if it is bad enough, but usually occurs when the fuel level drops below the hole in the hose (I think, can't swear to it).  It can also cause an increase in pressure inside the fuel tamk in some situations.  I also had a bad fuel pressure regulator cause simular problems but not as pronounced.  Best of luck, I hate "ghost hunts"...  jb

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Anything added beyond this point is new information.

Regards,

"Classic"