FXR Owners About Lowering An FXR

[Buddy WMC]

O.K. Guys,

I have a 1993 FXLR that has been extensively modified engine and transmission wise. The original stock 16" rear and 21" front wheels have been replaced with 16" and 19" Stock HD refinished 9 spoke mags. I'm currently running a 140X16 Avon Venom on the rear and a Metzeler 100/110 X 19 on the front. I have a 90/100 X 19 Avon Venom in the wings for the front.

I'm replacing the entire front end with new components. A new set of triple tress were flawlessly plated at Brown's. A new set of Frank's stock length fork tubes arrived today. I have the Progressive Suspension 1-2" front lowering and dampener kits, new HD chrome lower fork legs and all new HD or Genuine James internals. The bike is already equipped with Progressive 11 1/2" rear shocks and sits pitched up slightly in the front end.

My question is this, I have been told that going from the 19" front 100/110 Metzeler to the stock HD specified 90/100 will lower the front end 1/2". If so, then how much do I want to lower via the lowering kit to have the bike sit level? The current 19" setup did not lower the bike much at all from the stock 21" rim.

[baldoldfxr]

seems to me the new tyre will drop the front 10mm, I've got the 11 1/2" shocks on my fxr & lowered the front 2 1/2" to suit but bear in mind mine's a fxrs sport which had  the long forks & also its an 1986 whith more upright shocks.

[ClassicRider2002]

Buddy.....

I have a 'headache" from reading what you typed above.....LOL

I have no idea what you have done.....and I hope you have some time for your own R&D on this one....the only way to know for sure is get out your tape measure, and run through all of your modifications.....obviously you are interested in how low your bike will ride.....and giving it the best "stance" buttttttttt you also posted this thought process under another thread talking about Race Tech Emulators....so perhaps you are interested in some handling issues as well.....if you are I have put together some input on that topic (front fork suspension modification alternatives and potential results) that I could post here but if it's off track to what you are asking about here then there would be no sense posting it......it's a large enough "posting" to create more than a "headache" lol, more like a severe migrane! 



Regards,

"Classic"

[Buddy WMC]

Tim,
You asked me to start a separate thread and did so. I can't be the only guy in the world who has plans to, or already has installed the Progressive lowering or similar type kit in a 39mm front end. I found out today that the front Progressive dampeners will not work with the FXLR tubes, so it's new factory dampeners. Progressive now only offers a front spring kit, the front lowering kit and rear shocks, they no longer produce the dampeners.

Someone out there with a stock FXR that came equipped with the factory 16" rear and 19" front wheels should know about this.

[ClassicRider2002]

Buddy, ok, so let's break this down:

What you have:
1993 FXLR
Originally came with a OEM 16" rear wheel and 21" front wheel
You have modified your wheels to a 16" rear wheel mag and 19" front wheel mag
You are currently running a 140 x 16" Avon Venom on rear
You are currently running a Metzeler 100/110 x 19" front
You wish to install a 90/100 x 19" Avon Venom for the front wheel.
Bike has Progressive 11.5" rear shocks which is different from the OEM 13" shocks the bike came with.

You have a new set of triple trees flawlessly plated at "Brown's" (by the way who is "Brown") I know we aren't talking UPS here....
You have a new set of "Frank's" stock length fork tubes, (by the way who is "Frank") from what you are saying above you are running the OEM front forks of a 1993 FXLR which is what your bike is so what are you talking about with having "Frank's" stock length fork tubes?
You have the Progressive Suspension 1-2" front lowering kit and dampener kit (and you found out the dampener kit will not work with your FXLR Front Forks
You have a new HD chrome Lower Fork Legs

Bike sits pitched slightly in the front end

You have been told that going from the 19" front 100/110 Metzeler tire to the stock HD specified (Dunlop?) 90/100 tire will lower the front end 1/2".  YOU have been "told" this but you won't know for sure unless you actually measure this yourself bottom line. So basically you are making assumptions with someone else's opinion.

Ok so if this is the case you want to know how much do you want to lower the bike "via the lowering kit" to have the bike sit level?  (and you state that the current 19" wheel set up did not lower the bike much at all from the stock 21" wheel, .........which by the way it shouldn't because the difference between the 19" vs 21" tires is addressed by the "side wall" of the tire, that's why what your asking about requires doing your own measuring to know for sure)  The differences that exist between manufacturer to manufacturer is always going to create a different result, ie: you can see this often when comparing one company's tire width to another's even though each tire is stipulated as being a 130m.  There are definitely some extreme differences.

Then you state that someone with a stock FXR that came equipped with the factory 16" rear and 19" front wheels should know about this.  The point is you have adjusted your rear shocks from stock, you have also adjusted your front fork suspension by attaching a Progressive 1-2" front lowering kit which is a very specific item change that doesn't necessarily mean that another 1993 FXLR Owner has done.....you are talking about adjusting tires, and tire manufactuers.....that's why when you look in the mirror you are seeing the R&D person you need to talk to with all of the information.....

This is what I mean about having a "headache" reading what you have done, you have "micromanaged" very specific elements of your bike and basically wish to know how to lower the front end enough to make your bike set level.  There simply isn't a way for another person to be able to give you a "concrete" solution unless they have your exact bike with your exact modifications, ie: tires, progressive lowering kit, forks, springs etc. Not to mention that by simply changing the front fork springs from OEM to say a "standard" spring manufactured by say, Race Tech you could have an entirely different result.

The reason I suggested you start another THREAD on this matter is that I thought perhaps it would create more discussion from other FXR Owners instead of simply falling under the "THREAD" of Race Tech Emulators for a very generic application.

You can modify the "static" stance of your 1993 FXLR by also changing your fork oil amount and viscosity, as well as changing the spring as I mentioned above.  It may be the easiest thing to raise your bike in the rear from 11.5" shocks to 12.0" as well.

Which in the end brings one all the way full circle to the following question, you have spent so much on your engine, transmission and as it seems now with wheels, tires, shocks and chrome lowers for your font fork, yet, you are talking about lowering your bike......

1993 FXLR Low Rider Custom:

Length   91.63"
Seat Height  26.5"
Ground Clearance 5.25"
Rake/Trail  29 degrees/4.66"
Lean Angles   31 degrees right   32 degrees left

1999 FXR2
Seat Height  25.2"
Ground Clearance 4.6"

Lowering your bike and modifying it will only affect handling.....for a already well designed ride....but I get it, it's why we own them to make the changes we feel are appropriate for the riding style we wish to partake in.....it's a very "subjective" and "personal" view for sure.

Of course there has yet to be a discussion debating the merits of what is available to modify one's FXR supsension besides that of fork oil viscosity or amount in acquiring the most dynamic and splendid handling bike available within the confines of the model itself.  But I would say you aren't actually after the best "elements" of handling based upon your questions above, which is perfectly appropriate, but I would say you are after that "slammed" lowered "static" stance....ie: the LOW RIDER!

Regards,

"Classic"

[Buddy WMC]

Tim,

In doing the "homework" so to speak, the FXLR takes a different factory HD part number fork tube and dampeners than the other FXR models. I can only think that this is because as it was the only model equipped with a 21" front wheel. I'm basically changing factory wheels to factory wheels to drop the bike to FXR ride heights.

From the differences listed between mine and yours, you can easily see the difference in ground and seat heights. Clearances in the rear are fine. Franks (Forking by Frank), has been around over 30 years and IMO makes the best quality tubes madein the USA. The length of the new tubes are 24.25 and are the same as my stock tubes that are chipped up, hence the replacement. The Progressive kit gives you a choice of a 1" or 2" drop without effecting the dampening ability of the front end. It's all in the spring and spacer selection and the bottom line as this is difficult to do while swapping out the entire front end.

[ClassicRider2002]

In doing the "homework" so to speak, the FXLR takes a different factory HD part number fork tube and dampeners than the other FXR models.

Buddy~~~

The only way to know this for sure is to take these 1993 4 FXR Models which is yours and compare them to your specific Model:

1) 1993 FXLR Low Rider Custom
        Lean Angles   31 degrees right   32 degrees left
        Length   91.63"
        Seat Height  26.5"
        Ground Clearance 5.25"
        Rake/Trail  29 degrees/4.66"
        Wheelbase 63.13"


2) 1993 FXR Super Glide
        Lean Angles   31 degrees right   32 degrees left
        Length 91.63"
        Seat Height 26.0"
        Ground Clearance 5.25"
        Rake/Trail  29 degrees/4.22"
        Wheelbase 63.13"


3) 1993 FXRS-SP Low Rider Sport Edition  (dual disc)
         Lean Angles   37 degrees right   35 degrees left
         Length 93.2"
         Seat Height 27.5"
         Ground Clearance 6.0"
         Rake/Trail  31 degrees/4.82"
         Wheelbase 64.7"


4) 1993 FXRS-CONV  (dual disc)
          Lean Angles   37 degrees right   35 degrees left
          Length 93.2"
          Seat Height 27.5"
          Ground Clearance 6.0"
          Rake/Trail  31 degrees/4.82"
          Wheelbase 64.7"

I am providing the above so you can see the differences in ground clearance between the models....it appears there are .75"difference with those having dual discs with ground clearance, this may be do to fork length but without measuring one can not be sure.  Your bike is not one of these models...unless you have changed to "dual disc" perhaps?  Seat height is also different for 3 of the 4 bikes but that could be because of the depth of the seats being used as well....very complicated to figure out all of the different seats as you might imagine....

Perhaps acquiring a Parts Book for the models above and comparing side by side the part numbers for the forks, springs, and dampening tubes to see if the part numbers were/are exactly the same.....by doing this you will see which one is different if any.   I will tell you this, there are no differences in part numbers for the 1999 FXR2 or 1999 FXR3, the 2000 FXR4 forks are diffferent part numbers because they are "dual disc" forks vs single disc.....if you find the same thing in that the forks have different part numbers for the FXRS-SP Low Rider Sport Edition + FXRS-CONV compared to those of the FXLR Low Rider Custom + FXR Super Glide realize the only difference might be the "dual disc" element and not necessarily the length, and as I mentioned above perhaps this could very well be the difference in length between these 4 bikes when calculating the differences in ground clearance, ie: the potential for different fork lengths, but as I mentioned above measuring them would be required to know for sure.....

Once you establish whether you like any of these bikes "static" stances then you can alter perhaps to the one you want....but NONE of them are running 11.5 rear shocks....and perhaps the different models are running different shocks in a couple of the models requiring one to look at those respective part numbers as well....to see if there are any differences as well.....

This is why I am saying you have entered into a specific "maze" and you are your own R&D person who will take measurements.....and who is to say that there are any "length" differences between the forks with dual disc vs single disc either, the differences may only be the "disc bracke" arrangement, thus you would have to measure those forks as well and comapare.....

I will tell you this the FXLR was the lowest of the bikes.....hence the "LOW RIDER" name, yet when you look above it's not the "lowest" seat height....but that could be do to the seat on that model.....it's so tough to tell what is going on.....henceforth why having a tape mesure, parts book, etc. becomes the routine here....checking and double checking........

Regards,

"Classic"

[Buddy WMC]

Tim,
You are right, as I do have the 93 parts book. The fork tubes and dampeners all have the same part number with the exception of the FXLR. Those part numbers are different which is how I was able to order the correct length fork tubes. This is also how I discovered that the Progressive dampeners will work with the other FXR models, but not with mine for some unknown reason. I have the stock single front disc brake setup as well.

Except for the engine and transmission modifications that I have already done, the bike was purchased already equipped with the chromed out front end and 11 1/2" Progressives already installed. Over the years, the chrome has peeled, chipped and started turning green, hence the replacement issue and my lack of knowledge on the front spring swap.

The stock FXLR front seat and pillion pad are quite thick, hence the difference in seat height. I have also swapped the stock setup out for a NOS Drag flamed black leather seat that is about 2" lower, but not as comfortable and might be changed back to the factory setup later on. The 16" and 19" nine spoke factory mags on the bike were common to many of the other FXR models during those production years.

The bike handles great as is and the difference between the 130 and 140 rear tire size is not that much. There is a big difference between the Metzeler and Avon though and I much prefer the Avon. Guess we'll start with a 1" drop and go from there, it's only a matter of removing the top caps, replacing the top springs and spacers to accomplish either a 1" or 2" drop.

[glowinnadark]

I'm pretty sure that the 1993 Sport models have more rake and trail because of the additional 2" length in the forks, with only a half inch additional length in the rear shocks (13" FXR, 13.5" FXRS).

The sport has the anti-dive air system in the forks. For lowering, this was a bit of a problem (I don't have a big budget), so here's what I did:

Remove the air system.
Replace the inner spring and damper with Progressive components, leaving the 2" over sport length tubes.
Drop the trees on the tubes 1.5"
Replace the stock 13.5" rear shocks with 12" Heavy Duty shocks

Effectilvey dropping the bike the same height front and rear retains the stock rake and trail, but it is now sitting low enough that I can flat foot it in my hiking shoes, plus the bike now has that lowered stance appearance, which really makes it look more beastly, IMO.

Messing with suspension alters rake and trail. You really have to be careful about it. Either use rake and trail calculations and measurements, lower front and rear equally against stock, or make moderate changes, and do lots of "safety smart" road testing. Lowering the rear makes it more stable in a straight line, and heavier (takes more man-handling) in corners, lowering the front makes it more twitchy. Too twitchy, and you'll find yourself in a tank slapper out on the interstate.

Since you're not starting from stock, measurements are in order. There are rake and trail calculators on the web that also tell you how to make the measurements.

Spanky

[Buddy WMC]

Spanky,
Thanks for the good advice as I never gave that a second thought. I have a friend who is a custom builder and knows how to make those calculations. I'll let him have a go at this, I also found out that HD offered a 1" front lowering kit as an accessory for the 39mm front end. It came with different springs, spacers and kickstand. It is an obsolete part number now, but is still available.

Makes methinks that a 1" drop should be just fine. I'm trying to avoid raising the tubes in the triple trees although it would be the cheapest most simple method. We might try that method first before replacing the front end. Should be a pretty good test on what the handling will be like and how the stance will look. The front suspension should be much better with the Progressive springs.