Biggest Bang for the Buck TC 95" Combinations

[Jettbiker]

I have an '04 Deuce (88" FI motor) and am looking for a proven easy combination to build a 95" that will get me at or above  100Hp/100tq range.

I want to build the motor with just bolt ons, Heads, Cams, Pistons, Jugs and Power Commander for tuning fuel and timing.  Maybe some minor machining to get the quench within specs.   I want to stay between 9 to 1 and 10 to 1 compression, so I don't have to run compression releases.

The dyno numbers I have seen are all over the board for different combinations.  I know this has been beat to death, but I would be very interested in dyno proven combinations that work.

[555]

Me too please

[Mike52]

This is the perfect candidate for the 'Hippo' build, one of the easiest, most used, dependable builds on HTT.

It uses,
S.E. Perf. heads right out of the box
S.E. flat top pistons (needs to have the intake valve reliefs opened up)
Cometic .030" head gaskets for proper squish
S&S 570 cams
S.E. adjustable push rods

If you hit the 100/100 marks will depend a lot on the exhaust you have and a proper tune, but this build has proven time and again that it's capable of producing the numbers.

Have fun,
Mike

[GoFast.....]

I have an '04 Deuce (88" FI motor) and am looking for a proven easy combination to build a 95" that will get me at or above  100Hp/100tq range.

I want to build the motor with just bolt ons, Heads, Cams, Pistons, Jugs and Power Commander for tuning fuel and timing.  Maybe some minor machining to get the quench within specs.   I want to stay between 9 to 1 and 10 to 1 compression, so I don't have to run compression releases.

The dyno numbers I have seen are all over the board for different combinations.  I know this has been beat to death, but I would be very interested in dyno proven combinations that work.

Mike if you not going to say it I will. How about a 95" Bolt in WT 26 cam with Bob Wright heads and a 51 hpi Tb,That will come in betwwen 110 to 120hp
and Start without compression releases and is easy on the valve train

[roadglide65]

And the biggest bang for the buck would be the HIPPO build....

[Fxstchewy]

Yep, I have to go with that build...........I Did 

[1FastBagger]

Have an early Hippo build and it still runs strong as day 1. 100hp 104tq

[Rugby_fxdwg]

Whats a HIPPO build?

[mayor]

Whats a HIPPO build?

read post #2. 

The Hippo is a proven performer, but I'll also mention that a good set of heads and the right cam will get you in the 100/100 area as well.  Here's a few other milder cams that can make the mark: TW37's, Woods 6, and Crane 290.  To me, the secret to performance is in the heads- especially with the older head castings.

[Ohio Phil]

Well my Hippo build was a TW37 cam, SBC heads, SE flattop pistons, SERT,W/B E-Pipe = 95hp 105tq   Crank cameapart after 30,000 miles.
So I went with stroker 103 crank all else the same now she is 105hp 115tq man I like my chopper 2003 roadglide  (Thanks Hippo )

[flhstd103]

S/E Pro Kompressor heads Part #17044-08.        Chicago H.D price $ 479.96
S/E 95" flat top cast pistons Part #22851-99A.                           $ 143.96
S/E 211 cam Part #25152-00.                                                  $ 215.96
S/E quick install push rods. Part #17997-99A.                             $ 117.56
High flow air cleaner

This combo should  give you 100hp / 105tq with the right exhaust.

If you going to use a gear drive cam andrew TW50g.
IMO I think the S/E race tuner works better than the power commander.

[04efidynasuperglide]

i'm going to do the hippo build with crane 290 cams, got off e bay for 50.00!  what pistons are needed for 95 build that  are  clearanced for larger valves of SE heads?? 

scott

[GoFast.....]

S/E Pro Kompressor heads Part #17044-08.        Chicago H.D price $ 479.96

Are these the correct heads? That part number don't look right & neither does the price 

Everyone just needs to know that the SE heads only flow about 15% more than stock unless they have changed. The number 1 reason why head porters are so busy. I would sooner put the 479.00 in a stock ported head. I wanted the SEs because of the logo on them but by the time I sent them out to increase the flow I had to much in them. I would at least have them checked to make sure your build comes out right

[Reddog74usa]

Since were talkin "Bang for the buck" I have to go with the Hippo build as Mike listed it. That is exactly what I am running in my 99RK. It runs so good I don't want to touch it and that's sayin somthin. This combo runs very smooth, quiet and is very reliable.

[Billy]

Another option here:

http://www.t-manperformance.com/kits.htm

Stage 1 kit with 525 cams for $1450. I just did one set up at 9.8:1, no releases. Didn't dyno it but I expect it to be in the 100/100 range.

Great bang for the buck. 

[taz95dog]

if you're doing any hi-po build,why not use c/r ?  not that much more.comes in handy sometimes with hot restsrts...bill...

[flhstd103]

S/E Pro Kompressor heads Part #17044-08.        Chicago H.D price $ 479.96

Are these the correct heads? That part number don't look right & neither does the price 

Yes they are correct part # right out the 09 S/E catalog regular price 599.95 ,chicago H.D. 20% off just go
to chicago harley davidson and punch in the part #.

[FSG]

S/E Pro Compressor heads Part #17044-08

http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=1768.0

[mayor]

S/E Pro Kompressor heads Part #17044-08.        Chicago H.D price $ 479.96

Are these the correct heads? That part number don't look right & neither does the price 

I agree with 05, the Kompressor heads aren't the heads that people used to use in the Hippo build it was the Performance heads which sold at a higher price. 

just curious, has anyone bought and tried a set of Kompressor heads yet?

[Gulfstream]

Kompressor= 06 style heads, stock valve sizes, decked .060", and a cheesy SE Logo Plate riveted on...for $479 I'd pass! They're NOT the SE Performance heads of old, that would be the "new" SE MCR Heads.

[Jettbiker]

Still not sure which heads are the best for the Hippo build.  I heard good things about the htcc heads, but S/E doesn't make the htcc cnc ported heads anymore.  Are the MCR heads similar to the htcc heads?

[Deye76]

Still not sure which heads are the best for the Hippo build.  I heard good things about the htcc heads, but S/E doesn't make the htcc cnc ported heads anymore.  Are the MCR heads similar to the htcc heads?

NO. The MCR heads are same as the SE Performance heads, which is what you want for a Hippo build. HTCC heads have a different combustion chamber, larger intake valves.

[tomp]

-The MCR heads are the old regular/stand SE Heads with bathtub chambers to match 88", 95" and 103" piston shapes. Still has manaul compression release for the older bikes without the auto compression release wiring harness
-The ACR heads are the old regular/stand SE Heads with CVO chambers to match 96", 103" and 110" piston shapes. Has provision for auto compression release for the newer bikes with the auto compression release wiring harness
-The new Kompressor heads are nothing more than stock heads with a tighter combustion chamber and a SE emblem on them. Jury is still out on the compression release provision type as I dont know anyone dumb enough to buy these.
-The HTCC heads have proven to be a ping monster with the hot spots in the combustion chamber and piston shapes. Both CNC and regular HTCC are no longer produced. The issue was mainly due to Tuners not knowing that the faster burn rate characteristics of these heads/piston shapes required lower timing tables to compensate - thus pinging issues arose.
-The 103+ heads flow well enough to produce 130hp in an ideal world on paper (125hp is obtainable). They have very good low-lift flow rates due to the size of the valves/ports but need some cleanup in the ports as they are not CNC'd
-The 110+ heads flow slightly more than the 103+ heads and have slightly larger intake valves. They flow well enough to produce 135hp in an ideal world but need some cleanup in the ports as they are not CNC'd
-The MVA heads are the new King of SE heads offerings, surpassing even the previous HTCC CNC heads. Now with larger valves, as they were limiting factor on previous HTCC CNC heads. They also have new chambers that are more forgiving and less prone to pinging. These heads (on paper) are capable of reaching 140hp.

[Lamar07]

has any one ever flowed the se heads I had the 103+ heads stock they seem to work well for the money.

[GoFast.....]

-The MCR heads are the old regular/stand SE Heads with bathtub chambers to match 88", 95" and 103" piston shapes. Still has manaul compression release for the older bikes without the auto compression release wiring harness
-The ACR heads are the old regular/stand SE Heads with CVO chambers to match 96", 103" and 110" piston shapes. Has provision for auto compression release for the newer bikes with the auto compression release wiring harness
-The new Kompressor heads are nothing more than stock heads with a tighter combustion chamber and a SE emblem on them. Jury is still out on the compression release provision type as I dont know anyone dumb enough to buy these.
-The HTCC heads have proven to be a ping monster with the hot spots in the combustion chamber and piston shapes. Both CNC and regular HTCC are no longer produced. The issue was mainly due to Tuners not knowing that the faster burn rate characteristics of these heads/piston shapes required lower timing tables to compensate - thus pinging issues arose.
-The 103+ heads flow well enough to produce 130hp in an ideal world on paper (125hp is obtainable). They have very good low-lift flow rates due to the size of the valves/ports but need some cleanup in the ports as they are not CNC'd
-The 110+ heads flow slightly more than the 103+ heads and have slightly larger intake valves. They flow well enough to produce 135hp in an ideal world but need some cleanup in the ports as they are not CNC'd
-The MVA heads are the new King of SE heads offerings, surpassing even the previous HTCC CNC heads. Now with larger valves, as they were limiting factor on previous HTCC CNC heads. They also have new chambers that are more forgiving and less prone to pinging. These heads (on paper) are capable of reaching 140hp.

Without a flow sheet on these heads its hard to really know. I do not have a problem with saying a SE product can make decent power but the facts are, one we do not have flow sheets on these heads that we all can look at and very few dyno sheets that say they can. I have been to 135hp and it is not easy to get to in a real world. My brother inlaw got his 110 to 125 and it took reworking the 110 heads, a bigger cam and a hpi TB, If the MVA Heads are the new king then we need someone who has a flow bench and a connect with a dealership to get their hands on a set and flow them to see if they live up to their advertized billing.

[Deye76]

Haven't seen the combustion chamber in the MVA head, but looking at a photo of the piston, they have a substantial squish area. Now if the deck height is good, they might make some decent power without the detonation issues.

[Don D]

The old HTTC CNC heads flowed like a turbo toilet, very big valves and ports, but the velocity was relatively low and most 95" motors which were the bulk of HTCC builds lacked bottom end torque. OK for some guys and not so OK for others. Put them on a 113" motor new story.
I have flowed the SE 110 heads and was surprised how poorly they were out of the box. One head had a big gouge out of the short turn on the exhaust side, a casting flaw reworked in QC no doubt. Not a good place to randomly grind a divot.

[555]

WOW
bottom line. Please I have a set of 05 heads.That I bought to have done before I pulled my motor down. along with other stuff for my 95 build. to have everything ready to go an not drop so much cash at one time.
I want a John Deer Tractor an not peak Hp. so how are the 05's for this  thanks every one   

[fbn ent]

I'm wanting to go with something like the Hippo. My question is, with 70,000 miles on the engine ('02), should I do the wheels to? I don't know how they stand up.
R.

[GoFast.....]

The old HTTC CNC heads flowed like a turbo toilet, very big valves and ports, but the velocity was relatively low and most 95" motors which were the bulk of HTCC builds lacked bottom end torque. OK for some guys and not so OK for others. Put them on a 113" motor new story.
I have flowed the SE 110 heads and was surprised how poorly they were out of the box. One head had a big gouge out of the short turn on the exhaust side, a casting flaw reworked in QC no doubt. Not a good place to randomly grind a divot.

Right on Don, I can't count the number of guys that put the HTCC CNC Heads on a 95 and were soarly dissapointed. The head can be used on certian setups but for many people it was to much head for their setup

[Don D]

If anyone is considering the "Kompressor" heads why not just buy the logo and mill your own heads. Done deal

[KingofCubes]

Haven't seen the combustion chamber in the MVA head, but looking at a photo of the piston, they have a substantial squish area. Now if the deck height is good, they might make some decent power without the detonation issues.

Looking in the SE catalogue the piston/ combustion chamber thing is very misleading. Wish I could see a picture of the MVA head.

[Deye76]

Haven't seen the combustion chamber in the MVA head, but looking at a photo of the piston, they have a substantial squish area. Now if the deck height is good, they might make some decent power without the detonation issues.

Looking in the SE catalogue the piston/ combustion chamber thing is very misleading. Wish I could see a picture of the MVA head.

Yea I agree. Hopefully they were aware of the lack of squish with the HTCC's and have done something to correct. Not a head porter but 2.125" intake valves (in the MVA's) seem big for good velocity,the kind you and R&R get with 1.940" 's.

[Bakon]

By lack of squish on the HTCC are you referring to 103 and 113 pistons. Certainly the 95 has more squish area than any HD offerings with the two different angles on the piston and the large side protrusions up into the head. They are a PIA to measure the squish with all the area on the 95 piston.

[Deye76]

By lack of squish on the HTCC are you referring to 103 and 113 pistons. Certainly the 95 has more squish area than any HD offerings with the two different angles on the piston and the large side protrusions up into the head. They are a PIA to measure the squish with all the area on the 95 piston.

So your saying flat top set ups from the factory have less squish than a 95"HTCC?
Those that have measured squish on a 95" HTCC builds that were bolted together find almost no squish.....80thou instead of the desired .030"

[Hillside Motorcycle]

The old HTTC CNC heads flowed like a turbo toilet, very big valves and ports, but the velocity was relatively low and most 95" motors which were the bulk of HTCC builds lacked bottom end torque. OK for some guys and not so OK for others. Put them on a 113" motor new story.
I have flowed the SE 110 heads and was surprised how poorly they were out of the box. One head had a big gouge out of the short turn on the exhaust side, a casting flaw reworked in QC no doubt. Not a good place to randomly grind a divot.

Agree on those heads, as we have an Ultra Classic, 117" on the drum now, with 400G cams, 45Mik, RB Header, DTT, heads have been re-worked by us, and it is currently rolling 123+/128+, peak torque at 3500, and tune not finalized.
Same heads on a 95" are a turd, as the velocity is so poor, there is not proper cylinder fill occuring.

[Don D]

WOW
bottom line. Please I have a set of 05 heads.That I bought to have done before I pulled my motor down. along with other stuff for my 95 build. to have everything ready to go an not drop so much cash at one time.
I want a John Deer Tractor an not peak Hp. so how are the 05's for this  thanks every one   

How about both for not a small fortune?
As easy as dropping out of bed by accident! You will need a crank with less than .002 runout. The 05 heads are my favorite as they have the old ports and the beehives and 7mm valves from the factory.
The recipe
Woods TW5g cams
Good pipe, can decide on that based on the model bike
Compression (via flatops) adjusted by milling to 10.2/1
Street Port heads with 1.900 and 1.57 modified valves
Great tune
Similar bikes have made 105/115 SAE and are very fast revving.

If need be (higher crank runout) the cams can be converted to roller chain "conversion" by Herkobagger and the roller chain drive can be used or the wheels pulled and fixed, true and weld. This is not that expensive and the roller motors are not hard to split cases.

[GoFast.....]

I Agree with Don for stump pulling power

[Bakon]

By lack of squish on the HTCC are you referring to 103 and 113 pistons. Certainly the 95 has more squish area than any HD offerings with the two different angles on the piston and the large side protrusions up into the head. They are a PIA to measure the squish with all the area on the 95 piston.

So your saying flat top set ups from the factory have less squish than a 95"HTCC?
Those that have measured squish on a 95" HTCC builds that were bolted together find almost no squish.....80thou instead of the desired .030"

This is the area I was talking about on a 95 HTCC piston, looking down. The raised areas I would think give much more area for squish than a flat top with a bathtub chamber. I hope you can see my scan and the areas measured.


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Bakon]

Try this one

====================================================
resize and upload to one of the free sites, fsg
====================================================


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Bakon]

I cant open the first one from the internet, but I can see the second one. Is there a better way to post this? If you can see it, the numbers are thousands measured with a .030 gasket. Anyways Im off subject, just wanted to show the HTCC heads will work if time is used to set them up.

[ederdelyi]

SHO,
Take it from one who made those heads produce as much or more TQ and HP from a 95" than many ... yer beating a  . I'll be the first to admit that if John Deere is what is desired there are "better" choices and I said that openly on more than one occasion. You got them to work for you and you are satisfied with the results. Be happy with that and don't waste your time with folks who are convinced there is only one way to do things.

"Different 'strokes' fer different folks", dont'cha know? :>)

[Bakon]

Ed I believe you are one of many that walked me through the work. i will agree, many ways to skin the cat.

Hillside- what work to go 117 to the head? Is the piston an Axtell type with a reworked band?

I know the 103 and 113 have narrow squish compared to the 95 with matches the factory angles inside the head.

[KingofCubes]

By lack of squish on the HTCC are you referring to 103 and 113 pistons. Certainly the 95 has more squish area than any HD offerings with the two different angles on the piston and the large side protrusions up into the head. They are a PIA to measure the squish with all the area on the 95 piston.

So your saying flat top set ups from the factory have less squish than a 95"HTCC?
Those that have measured squish on a 95" HTCC builds that were bolted together find almost no squish.....80thou instead of the desired .030"

This is the area I was talking about on a 95 HTCC piston, looking down. The raised areas I would think give much more area for squish than a flat top with a bathtub chamber. I hope you can see my scan and the areas measured.

This in my experience is a funky way too gain squish area as it also restricts flame travel and slows down the burn. Have seen many dead spots with this set up. The fastest burn seems to be with the stock 88 combustion chamber and a flat top piston, then the stock chamber with a  little dome on it, then the modified HTCC head with the Axtell piston. The R&R stage 5 tighter combustion chamber (more flat squish are) beats them all. 

[Deye76]

SHO, my comments about HTCC and squish come from the fact that likely 99% of HTCC builds are not done with attention to detail that you did. If not for Ed E. most wouldn't even know where to begin. They have squish, but you gotta work for it. I stand by my belief that H-D  came out with components (MVA heads/pistons) that don't require dealer wrenches to go through that level of detail for a build. Bolt 'em together and go.

[Don D]

I stand by my belief that H-D  came out with components (MVA heads/pistons) that don't require dealer wrenches to go through that level of detail for a build. Bolt 'em together and go.

Hard to say. When they get some out there we will see the results, when combined with their suggested parts like an 11/1 113" motor and SE264 cam. The squish is just an element of the bigger picture. I for one will need to be convinced these heads will perform better than some of the tier 1 aftermarket cast heads or modified stockers.

[Deye76]

I agree Don, I'm not suggesting they will perform bettter, just address squish which leads to detonation, and gets bad press on the boards etc, etc.

[se]

I stand by my belief that H-D  came out with components (MVA heads/pistons) that don't require dealer wrenches to go through that level of detail for a build. Bolt 'em together and go.

Hard to say. When they get some out there we will see the results, when combined with their suggested parts like an 11/1 113" motor and SE264 cam. The squish is just an element of the bigger picture. I for one will need to be convinced these heads will perform better than some of the tier 1 aftermarket cast heads or modified stockers.

absoluty  ....

[M.PRUCINSKY]

S/E Pro Compressor heads Part #17044-08

http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=1768.0

Link wont let me in

[FSG]

S/E Pro Compressor heads Part #17044-08

http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=1768.0

Link wont let me in

Sorry, been doing some house keeping, go

HarleyTechTalk > Documents & FAQ's > Instruction Sheets that have been found > HD > Instructions > Instruction Sheets

http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=2382.0