High performance lifter 91-98?

[xlfan]

There has been and is a big theme regarding ''B'' lifters for TC's and -99 up XL's, and to some extent EVO ' 'B'' lifters. Are the 91-98 XL lifter without problems @ higher rpm's or is it just no other lifters available? No high perf automotive lifter that is the same?

xlfan

[deathwish]

'91 later lifter is the same as the TC lifter. I personally don't see many problems with the B lifter but it seems a bunch of people on the TC site have all sorts of problems. Is it them or their imagination or a problem? I know many panic on every tick they hear and many ride baggers. If you have a naked bike you often don't hear some sounds. Put on a windshield and you start to pick up sound. Add a fairing and all noise is channeled right to you. Add lowers it is worse. You get the drift.? Are other lifters better? HD B lifters, S&S, Feuling etc are all made by the same company. I didn't say they were the same as any company can specify different spec. I have always believed that this style lifter was better in the roller area because the roller is shielded where the older Sportster lifter/BT Evo lifter is not. The non shielded lifter allows oil to be slung off the wheel and bearing area where the shielded unit retains more oil. Also remember that even in a car with roller lifters and low lift the lifters are shot at 150,000 miles and ready to fall apart. You have 16 of them so if your bike is running 2500 rpm and you have 4 and you have 16 in a V8 then your lifters should be shot at 1/4th the miles of a V8. They may run longer but in what condition? For higher rpm use use the S&S travel limiter in the lifter with adjustable pushrods. Remember also many people try to wind a V twin to high rpm's beyond the power point of the cam. These are torque engines in most cases not ohc/high rpm engines.

[FSG]

Be careful here people, EVO Lifters are NOT the same as TC Lifters, even if the similar Part Numbers have the same Suffix.

The EVO XL 2000 and later is the same as the TC Lifter.

Current Lifters are:

EVO XL 1999 and earlier: 18526-89A

EVO XL 2000 and later: 18538-99B   

EVO BT Lifters: 18523-86B

TC Lifters: 18538-99B

[andyxlh]

One small addition to that - Evos from 86-90 use big twin evolution lifters 18523-86B, which I don't think are the same as the ones used in the 5 speed evo models up to '99.
For these big twin lifters the 'B' came in when the roller end bearing was covered more my the shaft of the lifter - I guess to prevent the small roller pins dropping out when the bearing went south, perhaps with other internal changes too (and also perhaps to hold the oil in as mentioned by deathwish)
Cheers
Andy
Sydney
'89xlh
'96flhr

[FSG]

Andy,  below is the usage of the 18523-86 Lifters.  The -A Revision came to be in '98 and was used in the FLT's and the later year(s) FXR's.  I could dig deeper to find what year the -B Revision came to be, but I wont, there's no need, it was after the last EVO was produced, it is still the current lifter and can be used in the earlier models.

EVO BT  1984 : 18523-86
       1985 : 18523-86
            1986 : 18523-86
       1987 : 18523-86
       1988 : 18523-86
       1989 : 18523-86
       1990 : 18523-86
       1991 : 18523-86
       1992 : 18523-86
       1993 : 18523-86
       1994 : 18523-86
       1995 : 18523-86
       1996 : 18523-86
       1997 : 18523-86
       1998 : 18523-86   Softail & Dyna
       1998 : 18523-86A  FLT's
       1999 : 18523-86A  FXR's
       2000 : 18523-86A  FXR4
            2002 : 18523-86B  Released due to change in manfur/supplier             

Edit to add the 2002 information.  As a side note S&S Travel Limiters 33-5339 will not fit into the 18523-86B Lifter.

[andyxlh]

Thanks mate
That makes sense. Certainly the ones I took out of my '89 some years ago were the original version, and I replaced them with the 'B' version then. I noticed the difference in design when I compared them - one of my old ones had shed a few roller pins through the cams wreaking the usual havoc so I was very interested in the difference! I bought some NOS ones first, and noticed they were the same as my original ones so didn't use them and trumped up for a new set from the dealer. Can't remember if the NOS ones were 'A' revisions tho'.
So we are saying that these lifters, either in the standard or 'A' or 'B' forms, were used or can be used in all Evo big twins and the earlier 4 speed evo sportsters. Your list does not include the sportster use, but my parts book for 86-90 does...
And... exactly which lifter does the 91-99 sportster use - is it unique to these sportsters as it can't be the same as the (then current) evo BT as the part number is different, and, more importantly, is it any good?
Cheers
Andy

[FSG]

I'll post up some more info tomorrow 

[Blockhead80]

My book shows that 18526-89 lifters were used in the 95/96 XL. There may be an upgrade that was implemented after my book was published.

[PC_Hater]

I have the parts books for 1999, 2000, and 2008 Sportsters so here goes:-
1999 lifters are 18526-89
2000 lifters are 18538-99
2008 lifters are 18538-99B

and Sir Garfield is right again!

I suppose it would need very careful machine work to enlarge the lifter bores to use the TC type lifters in 99 or earlier bikes. Something only to be done as a desperate measure in 40 years time when you can't get the parts. The rest of the pushrod stuff on the 2000 bike is the same as earlier bikes. Unless they do just drop in?

[andyxlh]

cool!
so, just so I get this right (as I have only worked on the lifters on my 4 speed sportster and my Evo BT)...

1986-90 models use the lifter 18523-86, and it is available in either an A or B suffix as a revision, also used on Evo BT engines
1991-2000 models use a lifter 18526-89, which was not revised and is probably used only for this application
2000 -up models use the lifter 18538-99 which has been revised twice as an A and B, and is used in the TC BT engine

Is thst right?
Cheers
Andy
Sydney

[FSG]

I know we're in the Evo Sportster Section but it does no harm to specify what models wer'e talking about, avoids confusion.

1986-90  XL models use the lifter 18523-86, and it is available in either an A or B suffix as a revision, also used on Evo BT engines    correct

1991- 1999 2000  XL models use a lifter 18526-89, which was not revised and is probably used only for this application    correct, note changes

2000 -up XL models use the lifter 18538-99 which has been revised twice as an A and B, and is used in the TC BT engine    correct


Some light reading found in the appropriate HTT Section

M-0930 , Sportster Hydraulic Lifter

M-0908 , 1986 1340cc Hydraulic Lifters

[xlfan]

The 91-99 lifter is actually the largest, standard size body is .9035''. The TC lifter std size body is .8425'', identical to 86-90 (ad EVO BT) lifter body diameter.

xlfan

[andyxlh]

Thanks for that, nice and clear now!
interestingly, I was looking at the S&S sportster engine cases a little while ago, and they seemed to use a hybrid approach to the sportster engine, with the RH case which was like my 4 speed, with removable tappet blocks and evo BT lifters and 'v' grind cams as I remember, but with the LH side setup like the 5 speeds with the larger case and the late model alternator behind the engine sprocket. Makes sense to use this hybrid approach I guess, but only if the tappet blocks are directly cut into the cases on the 5 speeds. Is this so? And if this is the case, what happens if the lifter blocks need replacing due to wear or damage? From a casual look on the outside of the engine they do seem to be part of the block, wheras on the 4 speeds their removability is obvious.
Cheers
Andy
Sydney

[PC_Hater]

Andy,

As you guessed, 91-on lifter blocks are part of the crankcase.

A quote from the 2000 Service Manual under Valve Tappets, page 3-63
"Cleaning & Inspection
1 blah blah blah
2 blahblahblah
Accurately measure tappet bore inner diameter with a guage. Service wear limit is 0.0030 in (0.076mm)
Excessive tappet guide clearance is corrected by fitting a new tappet and/or replacing crankcases.

[andyxlh]

Thanks! Another useful bit of info to 'store upstairs'. That's a bit of cost cutting I'm not too keen on.... guess the lifter bores don't go south that often, but when one does on a 5 speed, ouch!
Andy
Sydney

[PC_Hater]

Andy,

If you hunt through the TC board somebody had ruined lifter bores and rather than get new crankcases decided to bore them out and sleeve them back to size. The nay-sayers said it can't be done, but he happened to be a machinst who knew how to use the right tools. So he did it.

There have been no reports of recent explosions from him!
Plus, by changing to the TC lifters on the 91-99 Sportster it gives you more meat to play with on whatever sleeve you choose to fit when the time comes.