Do you think I'm sumping, I might be..

[metaliser]

Just put in a set of HQ0034 geardrives and thought all was well until I had it tuned, I gained 0 from the 203's I took out, 80hp and 93.5 tq.
My combo is 95" KB flatops, 30 thous gasket and some minor port work by BigBoyz, I'm running V&H's tru duals with rush mufflers with 2" baffles, now we thought the pipe combo was killing the bike to the point it wasn't letting it breath to make more power, after talking to PhilM I checked the oil amount in the crank case after a 250 mile run today and found 12oz's  , that's not good is it, could this be whats holding the thing back alone with the pipe combo, also when the bike is say pulling and you twist the throttle wfo and it starts to pull if you let up a little it seems to take off better, could this be the 8 degree injectors causing this.

[crash1292]

first thing is get rid of the injectors....then see how it runs before spending big bucks on other stuff

[metaliser]

Well the injectors might be a problem but is 12oz's of oil holding it back also.

[Billy]

I believe most folks consider 4-6 oz normal, so I would think 12oz is robbing you of power.

[FLTRI]

FWIW, we see anywhere from 10 to 30 hp/tq get robbed by sumping. 12oz oil remaining in a "dry" sump system is, by definition, sumping. Also the engine will run hotter than normal because it is having to pull the flywheels though oil.
Hope this helps,
Bob

[HCC]

The standard of oil in the crankcase is 10oz. Did the oil pump get centered by the procedure in the service manual? If not then, that could be your build up of oil. Also, it will "heavy breath" out the heads into the intake manifold, so you will have unexplained oil consumption and poor performance since you will be burning air, fuel, and oil. Its not your pipes or headers. Also, your injectors are fine at 8 degrees. The 25 degree injectors are not worth the expense if your didn't have the problem in the first place.

[FLTRI]

"The standard of oil in the crankcase is 10oz."

Is this the official MOCO "crankcase residual oil tollerance"? If so, it's kinda like the standard of .014 crankshaft runout. LOL!

We find any more than 6 oz will touch the flywheels and cause reduction in hp/tq.

IMO, the dyno is the quickest, most accurate way of checking for sumping causing hp/tq loss. From my experiences the losses are not always repeatable on every run on light sumpers because it takes a few runs to build up the excess oil in the crankcase. Then there is a marked reduction in power. Sometimes it can idle for a couple minutes and the power comes back because the pump catches up with the sumped oil and lowered the amount to where it no longer bathes the flywheels. A couple more pulls and the power takes a dive again.

This is exactly what happens to a sumper on the street. Wait at a light, take off and everything is ok. Down the road the engine seems a bit hot and the power seems a bit less than remembered.

Sumping will kill fuel mileage, loose power, overheat the engine and sometimes blow out oil from the head beathers or/and the oil filler, popping the dipstick out in the process.

Just a guess but I think there are a lot of sumpers out there, but will never find out because the bike has never been on a dyno to see if the expected power from cam change is actually there.

As always, JMHO, Bob

[metaliser]

Thanks guys, I will pull the plate back out and replace all the o rings and make sure I have someone to help me center the pump by spinning the motor over, I was trying to think of what was the same constant between the cams and it was the pipes, my tuner say's they are one of the worst out there but if I was sumping on both builds that could of been the problem, I just wasn't getting the power that other builds was with the same stuff if they were honest dyno runs. 

[04glide]

I had the same thing happen after an indy shop did a cam change. I had it on a dyno and it dropped about 10 hp for no reason. I found a pinched O ring.