VPC

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

A few years ago I purchased a VP83T from Hippo. Stock 88 with 3:37 gearing, stock clutch.

Been running it now for 4 years.

Couple of questions and concerns.

Questions:

I am going to a new biuld, a 95 inch with ~ 100 hp/100tq
I have looked at there web site and they only sell the vpc 92t.

Is this the one now for all motors under 120 hp?

The pressure spring that came with the 83T was somewhat soft as it needed to be bent slightly to give it a more cupped profile.

Question: Can I install a stiffer spring say the stock one? If so what will it change?

I ask this as I have about one inch of free play at my clutch lever (I know it is not a adjustment issue) If I adjust the cable all it does is change the engagement/disengagement location
I feel the spring is the cause of this as I feel it does not "spring back" far enough to eliminate all the slack. If someone understands this and can correct me or suggest what may be the issue if I am wrong here, please do!!!

So my question would be should I purcahse a new 92T or just change my pressure spring?

I have read many talking about different springs so I am curious about what the different springs will do to lever effort.

Any info and feedback is welcome. Hippo if you are still around please chime in.

Thanks.........

[FXDRYDR]

I think your 83T is fine.  I've been running one with stock clutch (only recently changed) and SE spring for 4 years in a 100+/100+ build.  It's held real well for me.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Do you think my level slack is due to the weak daiphram spring that came with the VPC originally?

I remember HarleyHog installed one and he specifically pointed out to bend the spring a bit before installing.

If this is the case would removing it and bending a bit more help?

Also I love the level pull force now, what would instlling a SE spring or stock spring do to that lever force?

[86fxwg]

With an inch of free play,i would say uv got more wrong than just springs.Plates worn,miss adusted push rod,Lack of plates. Im not sure that if i had an inch of play i could not even shift in to first.
All i can tell u is somthings not rite!

  Thoughts any one?

[ThumperDeuce]

I don't know about the problem you've got.  I've been running one of Hippo's 83T's with a SE spring on my 126/120 engine and it is right at the edge of holding the power.  It is fine riding 1 up but I feel a little slippage 2 up under full power.

[harleytoprock]

The spring plate that comes with the VPC is not the diaphragm spring. Its just like a protector plate for where the fingers make contact and doesn't have any real effect. If you got 1 inch of free play, I don't  know how you can even ride the bike.  Free play is the slack in the cable. If you can't adjust with the cable adjusters either your push rod adjustment( on the clutch assembly) is way off or the throw out bearing (under the right trans cover) is disintegrated or maybe the bearing balls in the clutch actuator fell out.

[FSG]

You did reinstall the spring similar to below ?



Below is a list of springs



does your install look like this ?

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Thanks Guys

My install worked and went fine as far as I could tell, I was actually speaking with hippo over the phone when I had any questions....at the time. I have put over 15000 miles on this set up with no failures and running 2 up many times.

It looks exactly like Sir G's picture. I have been running this for over 4 years and it does works. It is just the lever play I am concerned with.

Answer to what spring is YES I used the spring type in your picture. Now If I remember correctly that spring came with the VPC83T. If not it is the stock one for my '04 FXST.

When I did this I also did the 3:37 change so I also changed the the clutch basket at that time. The clutch pack I removed as a assembly so to speak and re installed it exactly the way it came out.

Just to clearify.

When I pull in the clutch lever, I get clutch disengagement when running, when the engine is off and I pull in the lever (when tranny is in gear) I do NOT get full clutch disengagement.

Under operation when running the system seems to work fine, The Vpc system seems to give a ON OFF type clutch / clutch lever operation engagement. In other words a stock clutch system you have approx 1/2 to 3/4 lever travel from pulled all the way in untill full engagement. With the VPC it seems to have approx, only 3/4 lever travel and the engagement is about 1/4 of that so it seems to be more of a on/off.

After looking at the pics it was the small thin metal finger "star" that the counter wieght levers ride on that required bending slightly.

SIR Garfield, could you send that spread sheet to me thru email, kghost31 at hotmail dot com, Thanks.....

I am planning on replacing my clutch pack during my biuld this year. Should i just replace it with stock replacements?

I hope this explains things better and would like any feedback on what any of you think.

Thanks..

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

I will add this,

When I was adjusting the push rod It seemed to go like this,

I would tighten it as specified and then back off x turn and lock nut. then adjust cable slack by cable adjuster.

That bieng said, if I adjusted the push rod a little one way or another I would have to adjust the cable slack to compensate, all it would do it change the friction point with respect to lever position.

Hope that makes sense.........

If this sounds correct please say so if it is not please explain why.

Thanks.

[FSG]

attached

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[wurk_truk]

I'm NOT smart enough to explain the 'why', but I have the same set-up as you.   MY clutch works just like any other clutch would and feels the same as stock.  I DO have the 330 lb spring, and Barnett Kevlar plates.

My VPC does not even come into play until well over 3000 rpm, when I can feel the clutch lever get harder to pull in and at 5500 rpm the clutch lever is stiff.  THIS, to me, is how the VPC is supposed to work...  easy pull at idle, and stiff at high RPM due to the centrifugal forces at work with the weights.

You have some kind of true problem going on, and I would investigate the suggestions these guys give you.  At idle and under 2000 rpm... the VPC does basically nothing but rattle around a bit (in my case), the 'on-off' you are describing is NOT normal.  Low speed clutch effort and operation should be exactly as stock would be.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Thanks

After speaking to SG I have come to the conclusion I have my rod/ramp set up wrong.

I may have adjusted the rod when the balls were not completely seated at "zero" position in the ramp.

When the temps here get above 50 degrees F, as it is only 20 F know I will look closer and readjust.

He gave me a good method for adjusting that makes more sense to me than other mothods I have read or used.

I hope this will resolve my issue.

Thanks Again.

[JohnCA58]

I would recommend the Energy One clutch pak plus one,  works great with my VPC. I got mine from Herko on here.  he had a special going on this product.

[hotroadking]

If you have that much slack something is wrong, either one of the parts in the system is the wrong year (length) or perhaps the throw out bearing in the trans side cover has blown to bits (happens),

You set the clutch end play with the allen at the clutch pack, pull in the lever to the bars, turn in the adjuster, the lever will move out, get it snug, then back off 1/2 turn.  You should then be able to pull the
cable end away from the lever housing about a dime to a quarters width depending on your preference.

Fine tune the adjustment with the cable.

Somethings not correct...

[FSG]

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Well The weather finially warmed up enough to allow me to check out my VPC clutch lever issue.

This is what I found,

When I did the VPC install (in 2005) I also changed my clutch basket and compensator to a 3:37 to 1 ratio at the same time.

Today When I disassembled everything today I was looking thru my service manual and it showed a flat thin washer then a tapered thin washer (belvue type) that slid into the clutch basket then the small friction plate then the rest of the clutch pack. (stock clutch pack no addition steel plates just removed it and reinstalled it)

Well when I got the clutch pack out, the skinny friction plate came out in pieces. (it was intack until I pulled on it) Also I noticed that the tapered washer (belvue type washer) was missing.

I still had the original clutch basket and looked at it and there it was the skinny spring washer.

I dont remember why I did not install it and I cant find the instruction sheet at this time but I did leave it out.

After speaking to SIR GARFILED, it appears that with this spring (belvue type washer)missing from the clutch disk assembly this was causing my issue. In other words the clutch disks were ALWAYS under pressure and making contact (very little but enough). If I were to have added an additional steel plate to the assembly then I would have most likely needed to remove this "belvue washer".

I hope this makes sense but I feel this was my issue with the clutch lever vs free play. It did all work for 4 years worth without any failure other than wearing out the clutch friction disks a bit prematurely...........

Thanks SIR GARFIELD for your assistance!!

If anyone disagrees or has the intruction sheet for this clutch basket assembly 37846-99a clutch shell(37T)  I would appriate if you could send it to me in pdf format.

Comments and feed back gladly accepted...............

Thanks.

[Admiral Akbar]

Actually you should be able leave the Belleville spring (I like calling it a spring) out and the clutch should function fine.. except it might be a little grabby. The Belleville spring allows for a more progressive engagement of the clutch. You don't need to add a steel if not using the Belleville.. Sounds like the Belleville is was stuck in with plate that has the smaller inner diameter hole (there is only 1 big holed plate). This can screw up the stackup and bend the plates if the string in in the wrong place..

BTW there are 2 thin rings.. one is the belleville spring the other is a spacer. sounds like you found 1 but not the other...

Max

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

When I took this apart, I had my manual open and that is when I noticed the missing "spring" according to the schematic/assembly drawing.

I went and grabbed the original clutch basket assembly and there it was, Not stuck but sitting in the box just as I put it there when I did this.

It is obviuos that it will work as I had it like this for almost 5 years of use. I do believe it has something to do with my "on/off" clutch engagement issue that I originally posted this topic about......Do you agree?

Correct me if I am wrong, But with this "spring" not present, like you suggest, there is constant light friction on the clutch disks all the time, This also explains why when I pull in the clutch lever when the motor is not running I do not get full clutch disengagement and I have to put it in nuetral to move the bike......

Does that sound plausable?

I am also going to pull the tranny cover off wher3e the cable connects and take a look see if there may be something else going on, I doubt it but I will look anyway..........Gonna have to reseat the ball anyway I think they fell out.

Comments still welcome........

[Admiral Akbar]

It is obviuos that it will work as I had it like this for almost 5 years of use. I do believe it has something to do with my "on/off" clutch engagement issue that I originally posted this topic about......Do you agree?

If you say that the clutch was more of a light switch, then yes.. the VPC make the condition worse.. It will work but eventually the thinner plate will wear out..

Correct me if I am wrong, But with this "spring" not present, like you suggest, there is constant light friction on the clutch disks all the time, This also explains why when I pull in the clutch lever when the motor is not running I do not get full clutch disengagement and I have to put it in nuetral to move the bike......

Does that sound plausable?

Nope, It in fact does the opposite.. Less drag or progressiveness.. If running that way for some time, you could wear out the thinner plate.. If the pads come off the friction, you'll have drag..

Not sure about the difference between running and not.. The damper spring that was missing will change the clutch release some but am not sure how it would effect a clutch with VPC.. It would definitely have more effect with the VPC than without.

Max

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

I am a bit confused about this,

If there is no bellville spring, then maybe the thinner #1 clutch disk and possibly the second or third is in constant contact with the steel plates when the clutch lever is pulled in with the motor NOT running and this may be the friction I am seeing. Without that spring washer there would be nothing pushing against the first steel plate anyway.....it would be more or less floating when the lever is pulled in.

At least that is what I am visualizing..........

I need to look closer at this soon.

[Admiral Akbar]

Without that spring washer there would be nothing pushing against the first steel plate anyway.....it would be more or less floating when the lever is pulled in.

The idea for the Belleville spring is to provide a light progressive load on the other 7-8 frictions and steels. This allows for a smoother engagement.. The spring actually causes drag in the clutch as it is released.. On the thinner friction belleville releases pressure on it earlier.. and keeps the pressure from being too high..

BTW, If you lost the frictions off the narrower (thinner) plate, you might have chewed up the inner hub where the narrower friction runs..

Max