changing oil in rear air shocks & do 2009 shock fit 2003

[superdave592]

I just bought a pair of take off air shocks from a 2009 FLHTCU to put on my 2003 FLHTC old owner said no oil lost in switch and I believe him.A thought can you put say 1 ounce more fluid in to give more dampening and maybe use less air use or would that blow out the seals? Yes sometimes I can leave things alone. What oil weight?

[HDDOC]

09 catalog says the 09 shocks will not retro to older bikes, I have not seen the differance but would like to know. As for the oil in the shocks there is a good tread from texasbowhunter.  Doc

[Caper]

Here's a copy of that post....Thanks for the info and for sharing it texasbowhunter  ...I plan on trying it on a stock set of air shocks too.


I have been asked by one of the members here to kinda give you an outline on what I've done to improve on the handling of my 06 Ultra...
So with that said "Let me state that by no means am I a front suspension or shock mechanic and don't claim to be"...I happened to stumble upon
the rear shock proceedure purely by accident and for the front suspension I made alot of calls to both racetec and progressive to get an Idea of
what I actually was intending on doing...And lets not forget all the searches and days of reading on various sites...
Front Springs and Forks
Lets address the front forks first on how and what I did to help make the front more desirable...
In the front end I wanted a set up that was responsive for my aggressive riding,  yet I wanted a cadillac feel, I wouldn't be happy with the hands
vibrating and going to sleep tooling down the highway either...nor did I want the feel that my "I" teeth were about to fall out...
After talking to Progressive and Racetec a couple times each and tring to get a complete understanding of what I was about to undertake, I still
wasn't at all convinced about the preload spacer and where to cut it...I knew that If there wasn't enough preload then the diving would continue and
the handling wouldn't be there...One tech said cut the preload spacer flush with the top of the tube and the other said follow the directions which
weren't all that clear to begin with...
So I called back one more time and If memory serves me I believe I talked to a tech this time by the name of Chris...This tech seemed to know
exactly where I was comming from and what I was looking for and was able to help big time... Chris said "Trust me for your weight and the fact
that you occassionally ride 2 up, cut the spacer 1/2" above the top of the tube...
I began to tear the forks apart and installed the new progressively wound springs utop my stock valve dampeners (new for 06"), There was
several articules out that stated that the new valve dampeners  looked alike some of the earlier versions of what racetec offered on there
emulators... So with this I choose not to install or purchase any gold emulators and install them at the same time...
While I'm on this subject we have a front end specialist for race bikes, Cliff Pipers of Pipers Performance here in the N. RIchland Hills area...This
independently owned shop was on the west coast and has consisitanly won racetecs outstanding recognition on there front ends for like 10-12
yrs straight and is now in the Texas area starting all over...I had talked to Cliff and he stated that if I go Progressive and install the gold emulators
that the front end would be soft feeling and he recommended that I dont install the Gold Emulators unless I go with the racetec springs and make it
a package deal...
I decided that I would just use the stock dampening valves only and see what the front end felt like and then go from there...
back to the assembly now
after I dropped the springs in the tubes and then the flat washer I set the spacer in and measured 1/2" above the tube and cut it...
I had to make a hardware run to Ace hardware and while I was in there I had the spacer and noticed that the 1/2" PVC coupling was the same
length as to what the spacer was and I was lightly bigger in diameter and beefier looking so without hesitance I bit the bullet and and bought
them...
needless to say when I go home and installed the new spacer it was dead nuts 1/2" above the tube and slide inside the tube like it was set up
for...it was alot squarer then I was able to cut it free hand with a PVC tube cutter as well...
Got both tubes done and after installation and springs just setting in the tubes I dumped some fluid in a little at a time and burped the slider with
the tube untill there wasn't anymore fluid to pour in...I had poured the recommended amount that the manual asked for...10.8 fluid ozs. of the S/E
fluid...
Got the springs compressed without spilling any fluid at all and the cap put on and reversed the dissassembly  installation and got the bike back
up and running...
Took a ride and it was like night and day as how the front end felt...its was an immedient improvement... very much to what I was hoping for in the
aggressive riding area...it wasn't untill later that day or so that I actually got the bike on the highway and was able to experience what a nice ride I
was experinceing...I could not even believe that with the firmness of the front end that the handle bars weren't vibrating through me to losen up my
"I" teeth...there wasn't any road irregularitys that I felt on the highway at all, unless I deliberatly road into them to see how the front end felt...
Overall I couldn't be happier with this up grade...
Note: the 1/2" spacing I used may not work for everyone...due to my weight and the fact that I occassionally rode 2 up played in that OVAL as
well...I seem to recall that the OVAL would be longer if I rode with a heavier load all the time...
with the new springs installed I compaired dimensions on the front end...
I had a measurement from where the cowbells stopped in relation to the sliders with no weight on the bike and then with me on the bike both
before and after this mod...ith the mod the slider didn't go down as far and with my weight on top of the bike the fork compressed to 3/4" (from 1
3/8")
Also there was a serious reduction in the diving of the front end when I applied the brakes both being just a causal braking to a serious hard
braking...
I rode with this mod in The Rocky Mtns and was really glad I did with all the winding turns and switchbacks...I could not imagine being up there
with a stock front end...
Since the mod I have done 1 other Progressive conversion Identical to my set up and been involved with 2 other Racetec installs
Both mods are for the serious upgrades you can do to your front end...
Both of the riders are pleased with the performance they have as compaired to...
We have one more Budd that has a totally stock front end on his Electra Glide Standard and personally I would like to get a feel of that front end
with just the fluid changed out to the heavier S/E fluid...

Rear Shocks
here's  what I had done with the rear shocks for $20 and alittle time for me...
let me kinda bring you guys up to speed on what I've done here...
I am no means a shock expert but I believe I know what I like in the way of a quaility ride...
1 yr. ago I purchased a set of 12" shocks from a member and when they arrived there was fluid all over the box in which they were shipped in...I
seemed to remember somewhere that the fluid could be changed or at least put back in, so a search was on the way to re-confirm this...BINGO, I
found what I was hoping to find along with the stock shocks are a POS and just go get a new set of Progressives...
Well as cheap as I am, I wanted to try and re-use the stock set first before I invested in a newer set due to the fact that I liked the idea of having
the air to adjust the ride...
So I had the shocks in hand and found some 7.5 wt shock fluid from one of the local indy shops and and began my little adventure...First I had to
drain all the old fluid out and this I found to be the most time consumming process out of the entire ordeal...I had to create a rocking motion with
the shock to get the fluid out...I removed the fluid and measured it and to my amazement, the amount of fluid that I had measured wasn't the same
amount that was called for on the search I did...OK no big deal it was close and there was fluid all over the box so this would account for the
absence of fluid in the shock that I picked up for the experiment...
After both shocks were full and I had them on the bike and bolted in I tried to pump some air in them but had a leak so as I was fumbling with them
I had some of the fluid running out all over me and the shock...never gave it a bit of thought about this...Just alittle to much...
The 12" were on now and for the last year were working beautifully and buy the way still are...Personally I didn't notice how much better the 12"
shocks handled because I never got to ride the stock 12" with the factory fluid...I let my friend Karl (KDietz) ride my bike after I overhauled the front
forks with the progressive system, when he returned he was in shock as to how well the bike rode with the 12" shocks on...
Fast forward a week or so he had asked for some help with his front end putting in a Raceteck system so we swapped bikes so I could get
started before he arrived the following day...The evenning we swapped he had his lovely wife on the back and when he returned he commented
on how much nicer the bike rode over his 13"...My reply is I dont understand Ifigured the stock 13" would out perform the stock 12" alltogether...All
I did was change the fluid out to something heavier...
After getting a bit more educated on the loss of travel that 12" over the 13" had I wanted to put the 13" back on, however I didn't want the 13"
stock riding height...So I ordered a 1" lowering kit form TJ Products which keep the shock angle the same as stock...I proceeded to install it right
before the ride in the Rockies along with the group...I was riding alone and had the bags full and had my leathers in the touring pack and there
was many times I was bottoming out...Ok I need more air...so I took it from 16# to 20# then up to 22# and still bottomed out...Now this was with
just me on it...I felt like it was the dampening system in the shock that needed to be slowed down and corrected very much like I had done on the
12" unknowingly...
I when I got back I talked with Karl about the experience I had with the 13" shocks and to my surprise he was getting the same results...
Went to the indy shop where I got the 1st -7.5 wt quart and they didn't have any...Called Pipers Performance here locally and found that they had
some 7.5/10wt synthetic...SWEET Just what I was looking for...Went and picked his brain on what we were doing and he confirmed that we were
on the right path to improvement on the stock shocks...Personally I value what Cliff has to say due to the fact that he was Racetechs #1 shop on
the west coast for like 10-12 years straight...I figure that in itself speaks for alot as far as a suspension guru...
So Saturday after we (Karl and I) each bought a quart we proceed to install it in our shocks at my house...
We started with his bike since he had 1 side of exhaust and mine had 2...1 shock would be cooler then the other on his bike...We removed the
shocks and when they were on the bench we removed the quick release connection for the air line...Now the Rocking began with the shock in
hand and this proved to be as slow as I rememebered it the last time I did it...(There has to be a faster more productive method)...There was if I
had the fittings so I dug around while he was rocking the shock drainning the fluid slowwwly...Bingo, I found a 1/8" mpt fitting with a barb that
would now attach to my mighty vac line...
Oh man, was this to prove to be a great idea...just sucked the fluid right out like nobodys buissness...
(enclosed a pic...)
After the fluid was evactated we proceed to install the new fluid in the shocks with a turkey baster...worked last time and contuned to work this
time...
(enclosed a pic...)
After the fluid was at the top of the hole where the quick release fitting was removed, I applied my weight on top of it to allow it to burp and release
some of the excess fluid...Very little came out...Ok now on to the next...
repeated process 3 other times because we did mine after we did his...
After the install we went for a ride...I had put 15# of air in the system and found the ride to be extremely firm, firm enough to indicate the ride
quality in the lower part of my back...I released half the volume of air that was in the shocks (8#) and when I did the ride improved but still not to my
liking...still a bit firmer then what I had hoped for...
Sunday My wife and I and Karl and His wife went for a ride and still with the 8# of air volume in from the day before we both rode around the DFW
area and when it did bottom out it wasn't the abrupt bottoming out I had experienced but a much softer more controlled bottoming out which sat
alot better with me...The ride did improve with the 2 of us on there...naturally this got me to thinking some more about the shocks and what could
be done to improve the ride somemore...
Sunday and Monday I thought about this...
What I came up with was I figured I needed to remove a bit more fluid from the shocks, but I needed to remove the fluid equally...So off to ACE
hardware store for some fittings...
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 1/4" compressing fitting on the other end
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 3/16" barb that would slip into the hose...
1/4 od hose 4' long
Now the mpt fitting with the barb would be attached to thehose and cap of a container while at the other end of the hose was the 1/8" mpt fitting
with the compression fitting. This would be screwed into the 1/8" mpt threads where the quick release fitting would go...
Then after both adapters were made, the moment of truth became more pervailent...
I jacked the bike up and removed the quick release fitting, but I left the hose hooked up while I removed the fitting and installed the lasted creation
of mine...After both were installed and snugged up, I lowered the bike...With just the weight of the bike there was fluid being pushed out into the
lines and container...Then very gingerly I climbed atop the bike and sat on the seat and released yet more fluid...After I was convinced there was
no more to flow out with me on it...I climbed off and removed the fittings and reinstalled the quick release fittings...
Note when I finished the volume of fluid were now equal in both shocks and I felt I knew this because the fluid in the containers were not of equal
amounts...I believe there was air and some loss of fluid in the beginning which wasn't equalized...I feel that they are equal now because both
valves were open and weight was applied, equally applied and uniformity was addressed...
(Enclosed a pic)
I went for a ride with 8# of air in the shocks and let me tell you what a night and day difference I just made was...
The ride was so much better then it was before...I still felt that there was a bit much air in the shocks so I released 3# and now it rides like I had
hoped it would with just me on it...No bottoming out and a ride that personally I feel should be what Showa should be shooting for...
What I did with the shocks Monday with my weight applied on them I feel was I set the shocks up for me and my weight...Kinda fine tunning them
and not mass producing them with a formula that would work for everybody...
Personally this should work with anyone, anysize and have a shock that is set up for him or her and not have to worry about the lack of ride the
stock shocks gave but how they could be improved on and how they should feel...
Food for thought
I'm not saying this would/will work for everyone but it certainnly can't hurt and for the price of a quart and some of your time one morning it's well
worth a shot before you go out and spent big $$$ on something else you may not need...
Also while we're on the subject for those of you that have access to the DB system that was such a nightmare for some...The DB system can be
incorperated with the stock air shocks so you can adjust on the fly...
Thats yet another story possible to come...
FWIW...When we removed the fluid from Karls shocks he had 10 fluid ozs. in one shock and 12 fluid ozs in the other...Go figure...I didn't measure
mine due to these findings but after putting on several 1000 miles on them I've got to say what a nice improvement I've made to the rear
end...Even with the wife on I put 12-13 lbs in and the ride has really improved...With me I like about 3-5 lbs...
FWIW...I'm also running the 1" lowering kit...
The brand of fluid that Pipers has is the...
TORCO RSF 100% synthetic racing shock fluid...Medium
The container is Black with a Orange label
get with cliff at
http://www.piperperformance.com/index.php
he can send you a quart or suggest where to get it at...
Do a search and you'll see some pics and what others have asked and done...
UPDATE: 1st is I'm enjoying the ride so much more
I'm running around the 3-5 lbs of air for me only...
and when the wife is on the ride is so much better...
with her and I on I've found that 12-13lbs of air works really well for us...
She doesn't ride much with me, but is starting to ride more so then she ever thought she would...
Hopefully in the near future we'll have the bags and touring pack full with her and I on it and I can forward somemore positive reviews...but as far
now...
This is a mod that has cost me $20 for the fluid and some of my time to accomplish and personally speaking I could not be happier...
One more thing...I haven't totally eliminated the bottoming out...I have however gotten controll of the harsh bottoming out that would otherwise be
jarring up through the spine...the bottoming out is more so when I go over a serious mismatch in the road condition (rail road tracks) or a serious
pot hole...then I get some...not that hard, more of a controlled bottoming out with the shock only, I'm not experiencing the tire rub that I did when I
was in the Mtns...
I hope you guys enjoy the mods as much as I have and if you choose to go either route whether it was and improvement of not to handling and
ride please respond so others that might be hesitant to do any mod might be a little more comfortable doing it..

[superdave592]

2003 shock # is 54565-97B
2009 shock # is 54565-09  The # are the same except for 09 other than that they look the same I dont know about the bolt size until I unbolt? Any body know if they bolt up ? Let me know before I get into this  Thanks

[kneedrager120]

stop by the local honda shop and copy the shock section out of it and bingo all the parts you guys need for rebuilding these shock
look at a 1500 GL book same shock

[FLTRI]

2009 shocks:
If the mounting holes are the same, the spring rate and valving (dampening) are prolly different. Do yourself a favor and at least try the shocks as-is so that you can know if you want/need stiffer or softer dampening or spring rate.

Since we don't know what specific changes have been incorporated in these shocks arbitrarily modifying them may or may not be what is ideal for your application.

Simply adding more oil to the shocks will reduce the available travel of the shock because it will eventually "hydraulic" which means the same as bottoming out, just earlier in the stroke.

Oil viscosity and preload air pressure is the key to these shocks working better, not overfilling the reservoir, IMO.

[Sonny S.]

Oil viscosity and preload air pressure is the key to these shocks working better, not overfilling the reservoir, IMO.


Right on Bob   

[Faast Ed]

Backing Bob's point:  I overfilled (by a few ounces) my fork tubes after swapping the legs for chrome ones.

Overly stiff ride, way over stiff.  Dumped it out and put in the right amount, now perfect.

[Caper]

I just bought a pair of take off air shocks from a 2009 FLHTCU to put on my 2003 FLHTC old owner said no oil lost in switch and I believe him.A thought can you put say 1 ounce more fluid in to give more dampening and maybe use less air use or would that blow out the seals? Yes sometimes I can leave things alone. What oil weight?

  You'll know for sure as soon as you remove one shock if the 09 will bolt on. If it does ,like FLTRI said,try it as is to see if it rides better, if not, try the heavier oil in your old shocks,but use the same amount of oil you removed from them.

[waskier01]

Carefully measure each shock individually.  If you don't get out close to 350cc, you didn't get it all out.

[Admiral Akbar]

"Here's a copy of that post....Thanks for the info and for sharing it texasbowhunter  Thumbs Up...I plan on trying it on a stock set of air shocks too."

All I get out of this is that he needed to add about 1 inch preload  with progressive springs to the front forks and that the rear shocks needed new oil... Handing was "night and day" different?

Max

[Sonny S.]

Max,

I put Bel Ray 20wt in my 01 Ultra front forks, and that made a huge difference. No air.
I did that after hitting a pothole so hard it pushed the front fender up in to the crash bar ...nice little crease in the fender now 
Some say the 20wt is a bit much, might try 15wt for a RK.

[Caper]

"Here's a copy of that post....Thanks for the info and for sharing it texasbowhunter  Thumbs Up...I plan on trying it on a stock set of air shocks too."

All I get out of this is that he needed to add about 1 inch preload  with progressive springs to the front forks and that the rear shocks needed new oil... Handing was "night and day" different?

Max

  That sums it up... and replacing the rear shock oil with a heavier oil improved the ride....that is the info I was looking for....that's why I said "Thanks"

[superdave592]

UPDATE the 2009 FLHTCU shocks went on just fine if there are differences in springs and damping that would be fine with me and it might be as the 2009 Flhtcu is alittle heavier than my 2003 Flhtc. Next are the 2006 forks without the cartridge in the left side. Springtime when I can feel how the bike handles without the cold on me and the bike I will fine tune with all the info I gather from this site.  Thank YOU

[FLTRI]

Max,

I put Bel Ray 20wt in my 01 Ultra front forks, and that made a huge difference. No air.
I did that after hitting a pothole so hard it pushed the front fender up in to the crash bar ...nice little crease in the fender now 
Some say the 20wt is a bit much, might try 15wt for a RK.

I believe it was 01 the MOCO made front fenders that were mounted too high (approx 1/8") and would hit the crash bar if hit a bump hard enough. This was a mistake and the MOCO would replace any fender that got dented. I don't remember if it was a "safety" recall. If it was, they will still replace your fender. Maybe someone here can verify if it still a recall/tech issue.
Hope this helps,
Bob

[Admiral Akbar]

"Here's a copy of that post....Thanks for the info and for sharing it texasbowhunter  Thumbs Up...I plan on trying it on a stock set of air shocks too."

All I get out of this is that he needed to add about 1 inch preload  with progressive springs to the front forks and that the rear shocks needed new oil... Handing was "night and day" different?
Max
  That sums it up... and replacing the rear shock oil with a heavier oil improved the ride....that is the info I was looking for....that's why I said "Thanks"

Gonna to the Racetecks on the front.. I like the idea of changing the oil in the back.  Gonna give that a try.. Max

[tireater]

Thanks for the fitment info...Got a set of 09 takeoffs for <$50 delivered...