'89 1200 Questions

[cyclobutch]

Hi folks, forgive me if any of this is old news but I'm a fresh face here (see intro board). Picked up the above bike last night (it has only a genuine 13500 miles on it) and it begs a few questions:

I expected the brakes to be bad but they are awful. The front barely works at all and the rear is only a little better. I've yet to look them over closely but is there a popular and none too expensive upgrade for this?

Having got a little more used to the vibration on the first part of the run home from picking it up I found that I could cruise the bike at 80 mph. However the flasher unit for the indicators seemed to pretty much give up at these speeds. Is that normal or do I need a replacement?

During the ride the gearbox (4 speed, chain final drive on this one) became increasingly recalcitrant until I was stuck with just a very stiff shift between third and fourth gears, couldn't get first or second. Will this be a known problem possibly?

I think it has the larger tank fitted (3.25 gallons - US I presume, I'm UK based). What mileage mirth I expect?

Thanks in anticipation

  B

[PC_Hater]

My 1200 is a 5 speed, but on my 20 mile commute to work through English traffic with a bit of motorway and the occasional blast up to 90mph I am getting a consistent 57.2mpg. That's to the Imperial Gallon!

Get the service manual for a 1989 bike. The brakes will improve if you service them. I used EBC brake pads front and rear on mine.
If you are used to daft old bikes the brakes will be good enough for you then.
If you have become used to modern brakes the cheapest route is a visit to a bike breakers and get a Tokico or whatever 4 piston or 6 piston caliper for the front. It is not rocket science to make a bracket to fit it. Or the interweb will find you a bracket. Try FabKevin.
My 1200 now has twin 4 piston Brembos on the front if that helps you!
Harrison will take all of your money and sell you an excellent 4 pot or 6 pot caliper that will fit straight on.

The Storz Performance floating rear brake conversion is absolutely wonderful. I had one on my old Sportster and if it looks as though I am keeping this bike, I'll be fitting one to this Sportster. (vibration and aches and pains will force the sale...)

A good service might fix the gearchange but the 4 speed gearbox is a known weakness. Andrews will sell you all sorts of uprated gears and shafts to fix it! Baker don't have much for the old 4 speeds, but check their website.

Belt drive conversions are available if you don't mind being limited to the 130 rear tyre. Chain lets you go wider if you are that way inclined.

You might need a new battery? That and checking the various electrical connections for vibration damage...
One of the warning lights for the indicators on my bike was not working after I disturbed the connections swapping handlebars. One test ride vibrated it back to being a good connection!

[andyxlh]

Hello mate
I have an '89, had it for years and have done almost 100000 miles on it.
The early 4 speeds do have a few problems and you may have found one or two.
The shifter uses an alloy cam follower to select gears on a plate. The cam follower can break (i have been through three) and this causes the bike to be stuck in gear - the hard shift you mention could well be that. They do make an all steel aftermarket one which seems to fix this problem for good. Of course you have to remove the primary drive and the gearbox to get to it tho'. good time to replace the transmission bearings. At least the one in the trapdoor.
Your bike would have been fitted with a 2.25 gallon tank from new - about 8 litres. Your new one should be about 12, if it has the rolled lower edge it is of a 96-2003 model, if it has the square lower edge it is off an early 1200 (1993ish to 1995 I think) or it is an aftermarket copy.
I would get about 5-6 litres /100km which means about 120-140 miles on a tank with the larger tank I reckon. My bike has modified heads, cams and pistons.
I had this flasher problem with an old OEM voltage reg. I presume it was overcharging the system at high revs, causing the flasher to run so quick it didn't seem to work at all! the result was a blown flasher every so often. Eventually I replaced it with an ACCEL VR and the problem went away. Never did any digging to find out any more, but it worked for me! check out the charging voltage as you rev the bike.
Re the brakes - the OEM brakes in good condition are OK, not fantastic but not anywhere near awful. Check the pads and discs, particularly the front. The late 80's were not good years for OEM discs, I have heard they were too brittle and cracked. Mine did. This hardness would also make them too hard and glassy. A new set of pads and perhaps a disc is not a huge investment and will make a difference without the big bucks.
The other thing is brake lines - the stock ones are a horror show - particularly when they get old. Bin them and get a front Goodridge or Barnett braided line. Completely eliminates sponginess - the lever is rock hard and the feel excellent. Not such a big difference on back, but still an improvement. These changes to the brakes are MUCH cheaper than the new floating rotor/multi pot callipers and will help a lot. I like the idea of robbing a Jappa for a calliper too, and just make the brackets and get a line made to fit. depends on how much machining you fancy. Remember Harley use DOT 5 silicon fluid.
One last word - beware the magnets in the alternator behind the clutch hub. This is a huge problem on 4 speed evos and an expensive fix if you don't keep an eye on it. I strip mine once a year to check it out. There's some pics on my site.
Congrats on the bike - I love mine. They are generally more work than the later 5 speed bikes, but give good service with care.
cheers
Andy

[andyxlh]

Oh yea - one thing - for the shifting problem, check the clutch adjuster. It is behind the circular plug in the middle of the circle on the primary cover. Use the end of a 1/2 drive extension in the square hole to remove. There should be a little spring in there which holds a nut shaped plug. when you have removed them (and slackened off the cable by loosening the locknut half way down it so the handle is loose) there should be 1/4 turn freeplay on the adjuster -that threaded spike sticking out the cover. If there is too much free play or the spring is missing and the thing has come out of adjustment that could also cause the issue. When you get a manual all will become clear!
cheers
Andy

[PC_Hater]

In old money he's getting 56mpg at best.
Twiddling gearing and a bit of clutch slip should get you to 57mpg.

[andyxlh]

I agree, you probably will get a better mileage with your bike - my engine mods don't help economy and I tend to be heavy on the throttle. Also crusing revs tend to be a bit higher as my 4th gear is not the same as the 5th in 5 speeds - the chain sprocket ratios are lower than the belt drive sprockets (of course both 4 and 5 are 'straight through' the transmissions). Early 5 speeds had chain drives, particulary the 883, and the sprockets were different to the 4 speed ratios as stock - and higher geared - but I can't remember what they were.
cheers
A

[cyclobutch]

Thanks for the observations so far folks. Further on various:

I've got the bike booked in for a service and looksee at my local shop tomorrow, so I'll see what come out of that. I don't think the problem relates to the clutch as it's the same when I roll it backwards and forwards in the yard with the engine off. Not liking the sound of a 'trapdoor'; sounds sinister - I have a workshop manual on order now, when I guess all will be revealed.

Accepting the fact that most of my ride home was restricted to third and top gears the bike does seem quite high geared anyway. I'm running around 3.25k rpm for an indicated 70mph road speed (by comparison my Griso G11 is showing around 66 mpg at 4000 rpm, in sixth).

I've found a floating disc on fleaBay for the front so I'll give that a go. I have some Guzzi Brembo two piston callipers kicking around so I could try making up a bracket to fit. The bike is still running the OE brake lines, but these aren't at all spongy, pulling on the front feels like gripping a block of wood. As an aside to this the bike is also still running it's original front tyre which I take as a further sign of the brakes ineffectiveness.

[andyxlh]

Sounds good. With such low mileage I'd have thought you have some time before the sinister trapdoor and clutch rotor magnets raises it's ugly head! Certainly keeping the primary chain adjusted correctly and not too tight is a good idea.
A good service might solve the hard shift, perhaps there is too much primary fluid in there or the clutch is out of adustment, but in the longer term replacing the shifter cam follower with a steel one would be a good idea.
I think if you change the front rotor and pads you will be much happier, and the brembos will  be great if u can get them to fit. when you get the necessary line made up I guess you would go stanless then.
The stock gear ratios had the front sprocket as 21 tooth and the rear as 48. I have changed to 22/47 to increase the gearing, but I wouldn't really call it all that high compared with the 5 speed sporties, lots of other combos are possible tho'. My friend has stock gearing on his '89 1200 and can pull wheelies like you would not believe!
cheers
Andy

[cyclobutch]

Well the bike is now on the bench at Surly Steve's to have the primary drive and clutch pulled. Current theory is that it may be a spring failure on the neutral detente (I think?). If it ain't that I guess we're at least most of the way into things.

[andyxlh]

hello mate
my advice if it is the cam detent follower, get the aftermarket steel one - can't remember which company makes them, but the OEM one is alloy and a heap of rubbish. I've not seen the springs break as they are tempered, but the detent follower is made of swiss cheese.
check the magnets on the clutch shell and the splines on the clutch hub and clutch shaft too - too much slop and the magnets contact the stator with a messy result!
cheers
Andy

[cyclobutch]

It's not good.

Popped down to the workshop at lunch time. Hardly is up on the bench with the gearbox cluster pulled. Skanky alloy lever lying there is very obviously broke; this being the much maligned shift cam follower noted. I'd have to say that having been in Guzzi gearboxes both great and small this looks like pretty unimpressive engineering - but there you go.

They're currently trying to track down a steel replacement, but ...

To pull the box they have to remove the gearbox sprocket. To get at that they have to remove the exhausts. Broke the lower front stud. That's inaccessible so the the head and rocker cover has to come off. I'll be in for having the stud machined out and then helicoiled. And what sounds like a shed load of gaskets. They're still totting it all up.

As a dip of a toe into the HD pool this is proving to be very good aversion therapy. Good news is that the alternator looks OK (so far).

Now off to mainland Europe for an extended weekend on the ghastly Griso (G11).  Might be better off staying out there once Mrs B gets sight of the bills. Happy days.

[andyxlh]

Hello mate
sorry to hear that. The gearbox is actually quite strong, i have 160000km on mine and all my original gears. I did replace the bearings at 125000 as a precaution and replaced the clutch and mainshaft but that was cheap.
The cam follower problem will go away once you have the steel replacement. It's as simple as that, I did mine at 40000km after breaking 2 alloy ones.
Re the head stud - I'm almost certain you do not need to remove the head to drill out the stud - there is a drill spacer which fits over the exhaust flange and aligns a right angle drill onto the correct spot for extraction. I believe it is made by 'Jims' although there are probably copies too. I'd expect an experienced HD workshop to have one of those. If yours doesn't I'd go looking as someone will! I've not used one but I've seen them.
I replaced my exhaust nuts with stainless ones and the problem of them binding was no more.
Re the gaskets - I'd get a set of Comtec gaskets from the USA - from someone like fog hollow (foghollow.com) as they are a tiny fraction of the cost from a UK dealer (that is where u are right?) Ebay will also have them - a full engine gasket set cost me less than $50 last year.
Remember you have version 1.0 of the evolution sportster. They do say never buy version 1.0 of anything as they haven't ironed out the problems, but there u are. Once the shifter cam follower is fixed and the alternator checked, you should be good to go. Then you can make a choice - sell the '89 and buy a '91 up model - version 2.0 and generally a whole lot more reliable (with 5 gears) or stick with what u have. If you stick with it you will learn to wrench it yourself or pay the bills!
cheers
Andy

[andyxlh]

The cam follower - OEM number 34063-84, is listed on the V-Twin catalog. It doesn't say if it is steel, but an email to great plains cycle might tell you. V twin are usually pretty good at improving on OEM stuff so I'd guess this is where my steel one came from.
here's the link to the page in their catalog:
http://www.vtwincatalog.com/dl/index.php?page=Catalog&dl_bc=XL.SHIFT.Linkage%2FRod
it i labelled KK on the diagram.
cheers
a

[cyclobutch]

Having no luck finding this in steel in the UK so far so I've posted them an enquiry. In the meantime is there anyone on this forum that knows of a UK supplier?

Thanks

[PC_Hater]

http://wallyscycleworld.com

They ship to the UK, I have had no problems with them.
They sell parts from many companies including V-Twin. Their version of 34063-84 is  'made of durable steel'.

Just remember that when the part is delivered you will probably have to pay VAT and some sort of handling fee to the shipping company. Sometimes you get away with it, mainly you don't!

email them for prices.

[andyxlh]

hello mate
I used to live in the UK - if you ask for shipping by USPS (rather than UPS) it will be much cheaper and should come to you as a normal parcel by the royal mail with no fees for a small item, that's what happened to me anyway. Beware couriers and big expensive things.
There is a limit of cost I believe before you attract the VAT for purchases from overseas, but I don't know what it is. Either way it is usually a whole lot cheaper to get from the USA than buy locally.

[cyclobutch]

Following details supplied here on the required part number a good internet trawl suggested that a Drag Specialties part should do the trick; DS-194225. That's now built into the transmission and I'm currently waiting on a chain case gasket. Should be back on the road Saturday.

Thanks for the advice on this one.