TTS MasterTune with VTune for 05

[RoadKingKohn]

Has anyone heard if this is going to be available soon?  Or can I get some O2 sensors from an 06 and put them in place of the DTT O2s that I presently have and have it work?  Have to gather the info now so I can figure out how much cash I will need to fix my bike before Spring comes.

[se]

Call JD's cycleworks in PA he is authorized and trained TTS guy. 1-610-297-0321 he can help you out.
ask for Dave
G

[FLTRI]

May as well call the man himself @ TTS Mastertune.net (310-669-8101)

[Don D]

Did it successfully on an 06, no reason why it would not work on the 05 same ECU. You will need the wiring and bungs and sensors

[RoadKingKohn]

Did it successfully on an 06, no reason why it would not work on the 05 same ECU. You will need the wiring and bungs and sensors

Thanks.  I already have O2 sensors from a DTT TCFI II but am not sure if i can use them.  The DTT ECM #4 pin (which drives the fuel pump) has burned out.  I could by pass it but then the fuel pump would only turn off if I turned off the bike.  That I don't think would be a good idea.

The exhaust is already set with the bungs in place and the wires are run to the correct pins for the sensors.  If I can use the DTT (Bosch) O2 sensors with the WEGO II then all I would need would be the old ECM (which I still have) and the TTS.  Right?  Now, will the WEGO II with the O2 sensors work or do I need to get HD ones?

Thanks,
RKK

[Herko]

RKK,
You'll need the OE switching sensors for the V-Tune/TTS.
On your '05, it's likely pin 8 for the front and 23 for the rear with pin 26 for the sensor grounds.
But, would recommend an Elec Diagnosis Manual to be sure of the 2005 pinouts and the TSSM Password Learn procedure if needed etc. Your 05-xx ECM is the one to have. Apparently the needed architecture/firmware is in place.

[FLTRI]

John,
"Apparently the needed architecture/firmware is in place."
I learn something new every day!
Thanks,
Bob

[Herko]

Bob,
It's still a little fuzzy on the edges but this seems to be the case.
As you know, the 1850 buss started in 2004.
But from all my reading, the OE installed ECM's for that year (32772-01) may have trouble accepting a 2007 VIN and/or establish Closed Loop operation. The 32772's now default to a 32534-05x which we still find on the cable throttle new bikes.
When I convert my 04 RK, (the cobbler finally gets some shoes) I will start with a new -05x ECM. Then time permitting will go back to the -01 ECM, attempt a re-VIN/V-Tune and see what happens.

Maybe SC can chime in and solidly confirm or clarify.
John

[Herko]

I find it interesting too that "O2 Sensor A" and "O2 Sensor B" pinouts can be found in the 2002 wiring diagrams. Took a few years, but finally in the 2006 Dyna we got OE Closed Loop.

[ToBeFrank]

As you know, the 1850 buss started in 2004.
But from all my reading, the OE installed ECM's for that year (32772-01) may have trouble accepting a 2007 VIN and/or establish Closed Loop operation.

Is that ECM part # correct for the J1850 bus? My 03 has that ECM part #, and I thought it was still the old style bus (being that it's an 03).

[FLTRI]

My understanding was that while the -01 ECM had pinouts you can't get a closed loop calibration into it because of VIN# restrictions. I was told the MOCO did not open the architecture to closed loop calibrating until -05 ECM. Hearsay at this point.

Anyone know if an -01 ECM can be changed into an -05?

[RoadKingKohn]

While all this was happening.  I got an answer from Vickie at TTS.  Seems I need to have the O2 sensors from Harley (don't know what is different about those from the DTT Bosch ones) and wire harness.

So correct me if I am wrong.  I just need the HD sensors in a harness and the the TTS to get things running?  Is it that simple?

RKK

[Herko]

"Is that ECM part # correct for the J1850 bus? My 03 has that ECM part #, and I thought it was still the old style bus (being that it's an 03)."


IIRC (don't have notes handy) one instance is the speedo connections/info path on the 1850 bus differ from the 2003 and back bus. A 2002/2003 vs 2004 will have different speedo arrangements.
A look at the Elec Diag Man 03 vs 04 should show the differences.
Not sure that a bus change requires an ECM change.

I'll pull the ECM off my '04 this evening and pysically double check the p/n though.

[Herko]

While all this was happening.  I got an answer from Vickie at TTS.  Seems I need to have the O2 sensors from Harley (don't know what is different about those from the DTT Bosch ones) and wire harness.

So correct me if I am wrong.  I just need the HD sensors in a harness and the the TTS to get things running?  Is it that simple?

RKK

RKK as shown in reply 5, yes the OE sensors are what the V-Tune/Closed Loop relies on for info.
Not sure you'll need an entire harness, but if the additional wires/pins are properly added...this should work.
This is what I'm planning to do. I think I'll up the priority on my conversion.

[RoadKingKohn]

RKK,
You'll need the OE switching sensors for the V-Tune/TTS.
On your '05, it's likely pin 8 for the front and 23 for the rear with pin 26 for the sensor grounds.
But, would recommend an Elec Diagnosis Manual to be sure of the 2005 pinouts and the TSSM Password Learn procedure if needed etc. Your 05-xx ECM is the one to have. Apparently the needed architecture/firmware is in place.

Herko,

You are correct on which pins.  I just looked at my diagram and it shows them.

So now for my dumb question.  Why can't the DTT WEGO II with O2 sensors and controller be used in place of the HD sensors without the controller?  Or do I also need a HD controller that I don't know about yet?

RKK

[Herko]

"Why can't the DTT WEGO II with O2 sensors and controller be used in place of the HD sensors without the controller?"

The OE ECM and the TTS software are not designed to use the info from your WB (subjective term) sensors.
If you want to go the WB sensor/OE ECM route...the folks at DJ may have the PC-V and their "Autotune" module ready for earlier models someday soon. So far...2009's only.

"Or do I also need a HD controller that I don't know about yet"?
Yes, you will need an OE (your stock) ECM.

[Herko]

And as far as the price of sensors go, the OE sensors are only about $40 ea retail... with the discounters willing to serve up a pair.

[RoadKingKohn]

Yes, you will need an OE (your stock) ECM.

Ah so the stock ECM has the controller for the O2 sensors built into it?  If so then I just need the O2 sensors.  Which would be sweet.

[ToBeFrank]

But from all my reading, the OE installed ECM's for that year (32772-01) may have trouble accepting a 2007 VIN and/or establish Closed Loop operation. The 32772's now default to a 32534-05x which we still find on the cable throttle new bikes.

Just a clarification... I don't think the problem with the 32772 ECMs is the VIN, it's that it's using a physically different microcontroller, an HC12 versus the HCS12 in the newer ECMs. This means they never wrote any closed loop calibrations for those ECMs, and the closed loop calibrations won't work with the 32772 ECM because the calibrations were written for a different microcontroller.

[FLTRI]

That is my understanding as well.

[RoadKingKohn]

But from all my reading, the OE installed ECM's for that year (32772-01) may have trouble accepting a 2007 VIN and/or establish Closed Loop operation. The 32772's now default to a 32534-05x which we still find on the cable throttle new bikes.

Just a clarification... I don't think the problem with the 32772 ECMs is the VIN, it's that it's using a physically different microcontroller, an HC12 versus the HCS12 in the newer ECMs. This means they never wrote any closed loop calibrations for those ECMs, and the closed loop calibrations won't work with the 32772 ECM because the calibrations were written for a different microcontroller.

This means that when I screwed up and got the 2005 that I actually did something right.  WOW  How did I do that?  Now all I have to do is get the correct O2 sensors and install them.

[Herko]

"...I don't think the problem with the 32772 ECMs is the VIN, it's that it's using a physically different microcontroller, an HC12 versus the HCS12 in the newer ECMs. This means they never wrote any closed loop calibrations for those ECMs..."

This sounds logical. Not real familiar with the individual capabilities of the Digital Tech. Maybe the 2007 VIN when simultaneously applied (flashed) with a Closed Loop 2007 factory base map would be rejected. This being due to the lack of education within the ECM to handle all the commands and features (Closed Loop) of the map??

FWIW...confirmed the ECM on my 04 RK (1850 bus) is a 32772-01.

[waskier01]

For my '03 Ultra; -05 ECM, CL Wire Harness, Speedo, Tach, O2 Sensors.?

[Steve Cole]

The early bikes have some different things that all got do via how they were wired. The late ECM's started in 2004 if I remember correctly and it is what HD called the magic buss. These are all things that will need to be reviewed before we release any closed loop calibrations for the early bikes but we are going to look into it only once were caught up around here. It's just not as easy as toss in a few wires and different code and your set. While that maybe possible on some bikes it may not be that way across the board, we just do not know yet.

[RoadKingKohn]

The early bikes have some different things that all got do via how they were wired. The late ECM's started in 2004 if I remember correctly and it is what HD called the magic buss. These are all things that will need to be reviewed before we release any closed loop calibrations for the early bikes but we are going to look into it only once were caught up around here. It's just not as easy as toss in a few wires and different code and your set. While that maybe possible on some bikes it may not be that way across the board, we just do not know yet.

So Steve from what I am getting that you are saying.  The 05 ECM while it does have pins for the O2 sensors there is programming that has to be worked out before I can get the TSS MasterTune and be able to use the VTune feature.  Right?

[Steve Cole]

What I am saying is I do not know for sure on any of them until the testing is done. Currently there are about 25 part numbers for the ECM's on the Delphi bikes alone. There are different setups for the different models. Mix this all together and it is very possible that works on one may not work on the other, we just do not know at this time. What we hope to do is figure out what does work and be able to set things up so that the early bikes ('05 up) can be converted for closed loop. Once those are handled then take a look at the '04 down models.

Anyone who is willing to try it do not stop due to what I've said as the worst that can happen is it will not work. I just want people to understand it's just not as simple for us to say go buy sensors, install them in the exhaust and hook up a couple wires.

[RoadKingKohn]

What I am saying is I do not know for sure on any of them until the testing is done. Currently there are about 25 part numbers for the ECM's on the Delphi bikes alone. There are different setups for the different models. Mix this all together and it is very possible that works on one may not work on the other, we just do not know at this time. What we hope to do is figure out what does work and be able to set things up so that the early bikes ('05 up) can be converted for closed loop. Once those are handled then take a look at the '04 down models.

Anyone who is willing to try it do not stop due to what I've said as the worst that can happen is it will not work. I just want people to understand it's just not as simple for us to say go buy sensors, install them in the exhaust and hook up a couple wires.

Ah okay.  Now I understand.

[RoadKingKohn]

So how does one get a file for the TTS MasterTune?  I went to the website and tried opening the 127EV100-C0.MT6 (same as EV127-000?) and it would not open or down load.  Am I doing something wrong?  I do not have the TTS yet but hope to be getting it about the middle of January 09.

[Herko]

Scroll down on that TTS page.
They're all in one zipped folder.

You'll still need SERT or TTS software to open the MT6 files.

[Steve Cole]

Just so everyone knows we are just completing the 2006 closed loop files. We have made what we feel will be needed in changes to make them work in any 2006 closed loop big twin motor as well as any 2006 open loop bike that has the factory O2 sensors added onto the bike. These may or manot work correctly in a 2005 big twin bike as well but they will need to be tested and we do not have anyone setup to test it. So if someone want to give it a try on a 2005 model the worst that can happen is something doesn't work right and you would need to go back to a 2005 open loop calibration. The latest version of Mastertune will allow you to program these new files into a 2005 or 2006 model year. We hope to have these on the update service by close of business on Monday.

[waskier01]

So, should I try this on my '06 113" SG w/O2's & '07 map, or leave the '07 113 HO map in there.

[FLTRI]

If you have an '07 map in your '06 bike it should state "CLOSED" in the upper r/h window of the VE tables, right? Steve can shed more light on what possible ramifications (engine warning light, etc) of doing that is, but I only know if you use an "OPEN" map ('06-earlier) on a closed loop (07-up) bike, it will log a code and the engine light will come on and off to remind the rider there is a out-of-range reading from the system. Of course I know this because I goofed and did it. 
HTH,
Bob

[RoadKingKohn]

Just so everyone knows we are just completing the 2006 closed loop files. We have made what we feel will be needed in changes to make them work in any 2006 closed loop big twin motor as well as any 2006 open loop bike that has the factory O2 sensors added onto the bike. These may or may not work correctly in a 2005 big twin bike as well but they will need to be tested and we do not have anyone setup to test it. So if someone want to give it a try on a 2005 model the worst that can happen is something doesn't work right and you would need to go back to a 2005 open loop calibration. The latest version of Mastertune will allow you to program these new files into a 2005 or 2006 model year. We hope to have these on the update service by close of business on Monday.

How do I volunteer and do I just need to switch out out my O2 sensors for the 2006 Harley ones?

[RoadKingKohn]

Scroll down on that TTS page.
They're all in one zipped folder.

You'll still need SERT or TTS software to open the MT6 files.

Would that explain why I cannot even get the file to download?  I have a version 450 SERT on my computer right now.

[ViennaHog]

Try to get the 4.77 SERT version first. Maybe somebody has the no longer sold software sitting somewhere.

[FSG]

Would that explain why I cannot even get the file to download?  I have a version 450 SERT on my computer right now.

They're there to get on the right side of the page, HERE is a link to the page.

[Herko]

RKK.
Email me with your email addy and I can send you the MT6's for the BT models.
4.91MB though. Got Broadband?
My email in profile.

Should be able to open with v.450 but can get v.477 here:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q7d973

[RoadKingKohn]

Would that explain why I cannot even get the file to download?  I have a version 450 SERT on my computer right now.

They're there to get on the right side of the page, HERE is a link to the page.

Thanks Sir Garfield.  That is the page I went to several times.  It just never would let me download.  I would open the folder and go to the program.  Click on it and then nothing would happen.

[RoadKingKohn]

RKK.
Email me with your email addy and I can send you the MT6's for the BT models.
4.91MB though. Got Broadband?
My email in profile.

Should be able to open with v.450 but can get v.477 here:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q7d973

Thanks Herko.  I will be emailing you.  I have emailed you before and saved your address.  I will try the link you have here and see what happens.

[RoadKingKohn]

Try to get the 4.77 SERT version first. Maybe somebody has the no longer sold software sitting somewhere.

I will do that.  Thanks.  Herko provided a link to get it.

[waskier01]

My '06 SG is CL.  I am also running a TTS MT on it, with a '07 CL 113 HO map.  It's running fine, but we have too much ice lately to be riding this tuning it.  After the snow and ice melts I can take it out to do some more tuning, but first I'll be testing the USB port connections.  I keep having USB disconnection problems.

[FSG]

Thanks Sir Garfield.  That is the page I went to several times.  It just never would let me download.  I would open the folder and go to the program.  Click on it and then nothing would happen.

Then it's a browser problem ...........

[Steve Cole]

We were without service on Thursday all day until the phone company could resolve there issues. That being said the servers were all reset on Friday so you might try to download the file your looking for again. Just locate the .MT6 file then double click it and it should allow you to download it.

[RoadKingKohn]

We were without service on Thursday all day until the phone company could resolve there issues. That being said the servers were all reset on Friday so you might try to download the file your looking for again. Just locate the .MT6 file then double click it and it should allow you to download it.

That explains why I was able to finally get it to download.

[spunky_man]

hey guys, just wondering wheather theres any new developments yet, as their's been new posts since mid December. if things work for the 04-05 bikes, what better way to kick start the U.S. economy. you never know, Harley might do another run of 04-05 bikes and go back to 88Ci. 

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

We were without service on Thursday all day until the phone company could resolve there issues. That being said the servers were all reset on Friday so you might try to download the file your looking for again. Just locate the .MT6 file then double click it and it should allow you to download it.

That explains why I was able to finally get it to download.

I am interested in the purchase of a few DTT TCFI IId or newer ECUs which don't have burned out circuits such as fuel pump pins.  Sorry, not interested in the TCFI II model.  So when you make the move to your new ECUs, keep me in mind.

[RoadKingKohn]

We were without service on Thursday all day until the phone company could resolve there issues. That being said the servers were all reset on Friday so you might try to download the file your looking for again. Just locate the .MT6 file then double click it and it should allow you to download it.

That explains why I was able to finally get it to download.

I am interested in the purchase of a few DTT TCFI IId or newer ECUs which don't have burned out circuits such as fuel pump pins.  Sorry, not interested in the TCFI II model.  So when you make the move to your new ECUs, keep me in mind.

I am very confident that the #4 pin is dead on mine.  Maybe I should open it up and see if just the connection is broken and can be soldered.