Brands of gasoline versus mileage

[Ken R]

The proper way to check gas milage is not on a 'per tank basis', but keeping track of fuel used over ten fill-ups and then dividing that into the total miles driven.  Trying to check gas milage over one tank fulls does not allow for all the above variables.

If one company consistently produced better gas milage better, we'd have known about it long before now.  But that's not likely to happen due to gasoline having to fall within specific "boiling point" ranges to be labeled as gasoline.

PC

Yeah, but I'm beginning to believe that all companys' fuels are not equal.  Even here, we seem to be leaning towards Shell and maybe Fina.  And there may be some that are decidedly not as good. 
I'll have 8 or 9 fill-ups on my trip in a couple of weeks.  It'll be interesting.  I'm sure we'll try several brands. 

Worrying about fuel efficiency?  Nope.  Quit doing that when I fixed the problem that was causing 30 to 33 mpg consistently.  Now, it's just fun . . . . something to think about and play with.

[runamuck]

more .02 .. I try to use Valero over shell because they are from san antonio on my 09 bagger I'm getting around 40 on the highway..fully loaded with wife and gear..

[Baggerlady]

After my trip to Salt Lake, my best tank was 43 mpg, and the worst was 37. The two worst tanks were from Sinclair stations, but I did have some headwinds. That was from the Salt Flats to Winnemucca.  The best mileage I ever got on the SEEG was 47 mpg from Carson City, to Bishop. I figure I average about 40 or 41 with it. My mileage did improve after taking the lowers off the bike. It also runs cooler too, less pinging.

[SoldierOftheCross]

I heard on the radio the other day that the same truck's you see going to the conveinance stores unloading gas will also unload at the shell, chevron, and other name brand stations. It is some sort of exchange agreement they have. The jest of the story was folks think they are getting specially formulated fuel, but instead they are getting the same stuff you will find at the mom and pop stations. I am not sure if I believe it, but it was an interesting report.

[Nebraskarider1]

I suspect the conditions rather than the fuel itself will affect mpg most although I understand the greater the % ethanol, the lower the mpg.
I don't use an octane higher than necessary because it doesn't make the bike perform better or deliver better mileage. So far under average conditions regular gas (87 octane) works fine in my bike. In extreme conditions (ie  mountains, strong headwinds, high speed, extreme temperature, poorer quality gas) I may have to shift to mid-grade to avoid pinging/detonation etc.
I'm setting out on a 4K mile adventure next week through the central U.S. so I'll be watching my economy too. This will be my first trek since converting the bike from FI to carb so that should be interesting.

My fuel mileage has been equal to if not better since converting to the carb, and I'm still tinkering with the carb, I'm going down a little on the pilot jet so it might get slightly better. Last couple tanks were 44 riding respectfully. 97 FLHTCU-I, drop the I

[Ken R]

I heard on the radio the other day that the same truck's you see going to the conveinance stores unloading gas will also unload at the shell, chevron, and other name brand stations. It is some sort of exchange agreement they have. The jest of the story was folks think they are getting specially formulated fuel, but instead they are getting the same stuff you will find at the mom and pop stations. I am not sure if I believe it, but it was an interesting report.

I've heard that before, too.  But I usually only see branded trucks (Shell, Exxon, Vickers, etc) at only their respective gas stations around here.   Independents don't exist like they did in the 60's and 70's.

One source I found said that there are 149 active refineries in the USA.  Exxon appears to have the largest capacity.  There hasn't been a new refinery built here since 1976. 

[wavlovr1]

Very interesting. Many seem to prefer Shell. My 11:1 95 hates Shell. In fact, it is the only brand I refuse to use (and the 24 hour mart gas). Many times on the road I have gotten bad spark knock and even bad idle/performance and it has always been when I had no gas option other than shell. My best performance and mpg is always with Exon.

Like many have said, I think a lot of issues effect mpg on the road. Gas blend differences state to state, uphill or downhill, altitude, wind force and direction. Heck, I drop one mPG just by putting on the tourpak, and tire air pressure is a big factor as well...

jb

[SoonerSoftail]

I used to work for Kerr-McGee. Back when they existed. They were an energy company and owned a handful of refineries. Unless things have changed all the gasoline in a given area probably came from one refinery no matter if the truck delivering it to stations is a branded (Exxon, Shell, etc.) or a private truck that hits all the c-stores and such. I used to have to go to to the K-M refinery in Wynnewood, OK for training. By that time K-M had got out of retail sales. The K-M refinery would have private trucks, CONOCO trucks, Shell trucks, etc. all pull under the same loading rig and fill up with the same gasoline. So the base gas was all the same in all the trucks. The different brands do add packages of additives that make each different as they're put into the storage tanks at the stations The base gasoline however is probably the same at your station as every other station in the area.

[Ken R]

I wonder how Shell adds Nitrogen to their gasoline.  Is it a scam . . . like Nitrogen instead of air in tires?  Or do they even really do anything different. 

[Sonny S.]

Speaking of Shell :
I've been doing some AFR testing and found that Shell runs the leanest of those I have tried. Others ran were Sunoco and BP, and both were richer than Shell
So that might be why some bikes hate it, and that's also why you getter better MPG with Shell. Nitrogen entrained in the fuel....there you have it !!


As for various trucks at the refineries. From what I have been told, the base gasoline might come from " X " refinery, but various additives are added in the tanker before it gets filled. 2 trucks might have Exxon gasoline in them but the truck going to an actual Exxon station will have better additives than the truck going to a low cost/no name station.

[DynaPat]

During the off season, I drive a bone stock, 2004 Ford Ranger 4x4. It gets crappy mileage and I know it, and don't care. I usually fill up once a week with plenty to spare come Saturday morning for errands and whatnot. I fill it on whatever weekend day I'm out and about.

Last year, I was in a part of town I don't normally frequent and filled up at some brand of station I never used before. (Xtra?) Thursday evening on the way home I discovered I had a low fuel light. WTF? Just not paying attention to the gauge. Filled up with Mobil or Exxon, good for a week+. Just for giggles I went back to the XTRA station a couple weeks later and filled up, and the following Thursday the needle was kissing the "E" end of the scale. I went from being able to commute 6 days on a tank to barely making 4 days with that crap, whatever it was. 

It was not E85, I went back to check to make sure it wasn't a HUA problem.

[mp]

Yes, a fuel mixture of 10% ethanol will decrease your mileage up to 10%, especially if you live in a humid climate, since ethanol absorbs water, and water doesn't burn.  Using higher octane than you need will also hurt fuel mileage and performance, since higher octane requires more compression to burn completely.  High speeds, headwinds, crosswinds and low pressure will also reduce your fuel mileage
I personally use 87 octane, as my bike has 8.5 to 1 compression, and I have never noticed any difference in fuel mileage from different brands in eighteen years and 150,000+ miles.  I do note my fuel mileage at every fill as it's as good a way as any to monitor how your bike is running.

[texaskatfish]

Actually interesting - I've not peeked in here since it was 3 or 4 posts long.
I'm partial to Valero & Shell
next tier'd be Texaco & Chevron

And measures be darned I do believe I can feel the differences..........is it psychosomatic?  (ya gotta be crazy to love a good ride eh?heheheheh)

[EL-AL]

If gas is sold like oil.....I remember about 25 years ago, I purchased a case (24qts. back then) of 10w-40 Valvoline Oil from the local Auto Supply. I opened it that day and found 1 quart of Harley Davidson oil in it! Yes ... It was a sealed case!
Nothing surprises me anymore!

[adlerx]

Better than an oil thread! I gotta post up here!  I am one of those freaks who has an automatic math brain so naturally, I always know exactly what my milage is for every fill-up car or bike. For me, bike is hard to say I notice any difference since I only use Shell or 76 plus the way I use the throttle like an of on switch isn't really condusive for uniform milage comparisons(I generally get about 32).
My cage is a different story. I use to fill up where it was cheap. Arco is always the cheapest around here, sometimes a dime less than the big 3(shell/chevron/76). But since the milage on my rig, a Tahoe with a v8, stays really steady within a couple of tenths, I really notice a big change. I started to notice that when I filled up with the Arco, I was getting almost 2 miles a gallon less.
This is a lot in a vehicle that gets 15 miles a gallon and gas is $3 a gallon.
That's 20 cents a mile, so my cheap gas was in the end costing me quite a bit.
20 gallon fill up, save $2.
Run 300 miles.
Buy the more expensive gas.
Spend the extra $2.
Drive 340 miles at aprox 20 cents per mile.
Difference, $8.
Actual cost to run the cheap gas about an aditional $6 a tankful.
That's a six pak of Coronas!
Actual $ numbers slightly lower(six pak of bud) but used these because they are pertty darn close and it makes the math easy for everyone to follow
Did this over several tankfuls of both and don't buy the cheap stuff any more even though I really like the fact that ARCO does not use any mid east oil.

Don't get me started on the 10% ethanol, that's like another oil thread!
I use redline syn BTW 

[MaxxV4]

 
I just drove from San Diego to Northwoods of Wisconsin in my 2000 Silverado. I usually use midgrade 89 octane and average around 18.5 mpg on a cross country trip. This time, I decided to try premium 91/92 octane to see if there was a difference. This trip, I averaged right at 20 mpg for the 2100 miles. I think that the premium has less of the ethanol in it and gets the better mileage. I will avoid ethanol whenever I can.
Just my .02.
Mike

[SHEEPDAWG]

this is crazy but true..I get the best from a Sunoco station in a certain town only*..its constant.
Bike or truck.

Oak Harbor,Ohio is the place. ( no I dont live there)

[speed limit]

B.P. 93 octane work`s  best for me but I wont buy anymore until they do right by U.S.A

[glens]

Speaking of Shell :
I've been doing some AFR testing and found that Shell runs the leanest of those I have tried.

This isn't necessarily exactly pertinent to Shell (I don't know) and it isn't exacting science either.  But if you take one part ethanol which has a 9:1 AFR stoich point and mix it with nine parts gasoline with 14.7:1 AFR stoich point, you'll end up with ~14.1:1 AFR stoich point.  If you have open-loop EFI or a carb, set to deliver stoichiometric burn at cruise, you'll be providing 14.6:1 fuel which is fairly lean with a fuel that completely burns at 14.1:1, probably down a little on power compared to gasoline because of that.  So in your informal testing you've determined that Shell is the most adulterated fuel.  It may have a stoich point even richer than (just) ethanol mix.

I suppose that's good business.  You get to wear a green cap, tout your fantabulous additives, and your repeat customers will spend more with you over time than they would elsewhere 'cause it takes more of your fuel to do the same amount of work.  But their injectors will be clean (and probably the piston crowns and the valves).  That's maybe worth something in the long run.

If you have closed-loop EFI, you'll simply burn more fuel since it'll work its way to 14.1:1 AFR.

Then there's the thermal energy difference, with ethanol being a little bit down on that compared to gasoline.  So on top of the greater closed-loop fuel quantity you're producing less (good) heat to drive the pistons with.

I shun corn gas like The Plague.

As for various trucks at the refineries. From what I have been told, the base gasoline might come from " X " refinery, but various additives are added in the tanker before it gets filled.

This jibes with what I've "heard" too.

How well-mixed would a solution be if 500 gallons of ethanol were poured in on top of 4500 gallons of gasoline, then driven a couple miles and dumped into a station tank?

[Sonny S.]

Glens,

I was using a WEGO III on a carbed bike. I do know that best MPG for my bike and truck comes from Shell. My neighbor is a MPG freak ( no Mayor is not my neighbor ) and he says the same thing. Shell gives him best MPG......maybe it's just in my state ?  IDK 

[wavlovr1]

I put 12.2 gals in one 5 gal and one 6 gal container. I did not overfill, but filled right to the line (have measured them before at exactly 5 and 6 gals).

What this tells me is that the meter measuring the gas was not all that accurate. On a 5 gal tank, that could have a major impact on percieved MPG...

You may just be getting screwed at the pump. Not just by quality but also quantity....
jimbob

[Ken R]

I put 12.2 gals in one 5 gal and one 6 gal container. I did not overfill, but filled right to the line (have measured them before at exactly 5 and 6 gals).

What this tells me is that the meter measuring the gas was not all that accurate. On a 5 gal tank, that could have a major impact on percieved MPG...

You may just be getting screwed at the pump. Not just by quality but also quantity....
jimbob

A few years ago, I actually called the Texas authority and complained that I was able to put 24.7 gallons into a 23 gallon tank.  (something like that).  They actually came out and tested the pump.  The guy used graduated beakers.  The pump was spot on.  He tested all of the pumps at that particular station and they were all spot on.  New stickers on all. 

Since then, I pretty much figured that the pumps were probably fairly accurate.  They spot check and the retailer never knows when they'll be by to test.   

Now, I don't have a clue how the pumps compensate for fuel temperature.  Understand that it can be significant. 

Ken

[glens]

I chatted-up a tester while he was working the other day.  He said that in his 5-gallon container up to 6 c.i. deviation was a "pass".  That's 0.5%.  I asked him if he could put little inconspicuous markings on the pumps which passed "high".  He pondered it for a moment and smiled, saying he couldn't do that.

I asked him about setting all the pumps in a station to just pass "low" and he said if that was the case he could fail them all.

[dunbarton]

I put 12.2 gals in one 5 gal and one 6 gal container. I did not overfill, but filled right to the line (have measured them before at exactly 5 and 6 gals).

What this tells me is that the meter measuring the gas was not all that accurate. On a 5 gal tank, that could have a major impact on percieved MPG...

You may just be getting screwed at the pump. Not just by quality but also quantity....
jimbob

A few years ago, I actually called the Texas authority and complained that I was able to put 24.7 gallons into a 23 gallon tank.  (something like that).  They actually came out and tested the pump.  The guy used graduated beakers.  The pump was spot on.  He tested all of the pumps at that particular station and they were all spot on.  New stickers on all. 

Since then, I pretty much figured that the pumps were probably fairly accurate.  They spot check and the retailer never knows when they'll be by to test.   

Now, I don't have a clue how the pumps compensate for fuel temperature.  Understand that it can be significant. 

Ken

FWIW, the tanks on our bikes have a larger capacity than the published figures too. I assumed my tank held close to the published 5 U.S. gal but it is actually about 5.75 (by accurate measure) when filled to the top of the filler neck. The filler neck extends a fair distance down into the tank and the 5 gal mark is @ the bottom of the neck. I expect they design a safety margin for expansion of the gas.

[mayor]

I do know that best MPG for my bike and truck comes from Shell. My neighbor is a MPG freak ( no Mayor is not my neighbor ) and he says the same thing. Shell gives him best MPG......maybe it's just in my state ?  IDK 

yea, I did hear somehwere that that mayor fellow is an mpg freak too.    All of my areas BP's are becoming Shells, so I'll try and test your theory across the M&D line.