SE Compensator ?

[Admiral Akbar]

How could it hurt? 

Stock or SE?

All I see that it does is remove shock load from the drivetrain?

Doesn't the stock one also?? Is one that much better then the other??

The SE comp has more travel than the stock one.

Well with 3 lobes on both cams the max travel can only be +- 1/6 turn. So how ,many degrees more travel is there?

Doesn't bottom out easily like the stocker which is down to its knees at a hot soak start.

So you think that starting the bike is what causes the cranks to twist?

Son in law's stock comp came apart, bike had 80,000 miles on it, 96 inch with cams, no head work.

Even the old EVO /TC compensator can blow up.. What failed on this one.. I suspect it might have been part of the spring housing but I'm only guessing.   

If you put really stiff shocks on the back of a glide with a tour-pack to stop the occasional bottoming. Are things better than before or are you going to break off the tour pack mounting brackets?

What happens for the comp??

I'm not saying one is better than the other. Just trying to understand the issues. The SE does seem to be more progressive in the spring since there are 3 spring sizes.  What else is there??

Maybe modifying the stocker would be a possible solution?

Max

[strokerjlk]

My spings are pretty much shot@ 61,000 miles. It was fine up to the end.
I never had the starter bang that I see so many have,untill around 58,000 miles

[hrdtail78]

The advertisement in the catalog calls for more travel.    As I understand it this is made to soften the load the crank feels.  This is a good thing with stock cranks, but on the down side.  It also sounds like a power robber.  More power absorbed by comp=less to rear wheel.

[rbabos]

The advertisement in the catalog calls for more travel.    As I understand it this is made to soften the load the crank feels.  This is a good thing with stock cranks, but on the down side.  It also sounds like a power robber.  More power absorbed by comp=less to rear wheel.

The fact that it's cushioning doesn't mean it's robbing power to any meaninful extent. Not like it's slipping on the crank or anything. The slight increase in mass will slow the spoolup somewhat but the tradeoffs are worth it in my view.
Ron

[rbabos]

When is the SE Compensator Necessary?

Good question..

And do you have an answer?

Technically the stock comp with shallow ramp angles and weak spring pack combination will not effectively dampen the pulses much beyond light cruise conditions. If a person don't keep the revs up and works the comp it will bottom the pack and continuously hammer the the spring pack into the rotor. Second problem is it's suppose to cushion rapid torque inputs but in fact being so weak the crank gets a running start in rotation and hits the wall at the end of the cam travel causing a sudden rotational shock load on the crank. This can cause slip of the wheels. To bottom the SE comp requires a combination of abuse and big time torque. Basically the stock comp was the best example of a non functioning pos I've ever seen. The spring pack was suitable for the earlier comps with steep ramps but the 34 tooth with shallow ramps makes it a terrible combination. By the way the SE spring pack is progressive, meaning there's a light spring for light load, 2 medium discs for more load and finally two big mothers that defy you to flatten these puppies out. Stock comp has 4 thin discs that equal to what a limp dick could accomplish.
Ron

[slik rik]

now thats a good answer

[Sc00ter]

A number of things happened in ’07 that seem to coincide with the current crank issues. In ’07 the Cruise Drive was expanded from the Dyna Platform to include all Big Twins. It seems that the new larger motor sprocket would easily max out the capacity of its shock absorbing compensator. This is evident by the sound made when the mechanical stops are reached at maximum travel. Crank failures and starter failures began to occur in increased numbers...

When problems became evident in 2007, one of the first countermeasures was the torque smoothing calibration. This was intended to prevent the engine from pulling down hard at extremely low RPM. The resulting powertrain snatch would hammer the crankshaft off the compensator's mechanical stops resulting in severe torque spikes at the crankpin, ultimately shifting the flywheel assembly.

One of the next countermeasures was the Isolated Drive System introduced on 2008 touring platform machines. The IDS is also offered as a retrofit for 2007 touring machines. This device absorbs shock loads generated from the powertrain, reducing stress at the crankpin.

Another countermeasure that followed in 2008 was the high capacity compensating sprocket - the SE compensator. 

Regarding other internal countermeasures; I've been led to believe from an engineering friend at the MOCO is the interference fit of the crankpin into the flywheel doesn't tolerate being disturbed after it has been assembled. My understanding is that if the joint is moved after assembly, even for truing, the integrity of the joint will be compromised, reducing the torque capacity of the assembly.

Somewhere there is a "calculation" based on production variables that results in the substantial number which is used to specify "acceptable" trueness of this assembly. So far it seems in practice that this number is not representative of a quality component.

My sense is that the increasing flywheel shift issues beginning in ‘07 are the result of drivetrain changes coupled with higher engine output which was not met with adequate torsional dampening of the drivetrain.

My take on the crankshaft issues that began in 2007 are:
The crankpin was moved further from the crankshaft center, increasing the stroke and the mechanical leverage of the flywheel’s inertia over the crankpin. This reduces the crankshaft’s capacity to resist high torsional load spikes.
The longer stroke results in increased mechanical leverage resulting in higher torsional loads throughout the powertrain.
The overall gear ratio changed substantially with the advent of the Cruise Drive to a numerically lower ratio. This change resulted in a substantial increase in load throughout the powertrain.

You have a scenario whereby the engine has increased capacity to produce high torsional loads; the crankshaft has reduced capacity to handle these loads and the drivetrain and chassis have less capacity to absorb and dampen these torsional load spikes. The engine makes more, and the rest of the powertrain and chassis absorb and dampen less

I haven’t seen anything in the aftermarket that provides increased torsional load handling capabilities for high output H-D drivetrains. It only makes sense that these loads will increase with higher engine output. It is also apparent that relying on the rider’s technique to manage the load will not always return a positive result.


Of course, this is just unsubstantiated conversation and conclusion on my part... and input from others more knowledgeable than me on the subject.... 

[happyman]

The comp kit was revised sometime ago and should be OK now. It is stock on the 2011 FHLTs. Go figure

seems  that the 10's touring bikes had the SE compensator. seems i read it on this forum some time ago.

[ThumperDeuce]

My Deuce is going back together with one of these:

http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html

I think they are only good through the 2006 models, but I am not sure as it fits on a new S&S "B" wheel set that is in my Deuce now. 

It uses a taper and teflon ring, no springs.  I'll let everyone know how it works out if I ever get back on the road again.  You can search the web to find articles about it.

[Admiral Akbar]

Maybe if you like to power shift?
Max

Well, who doesn't? 
You have a 131 just to impress? Well, at 3500rpm, in each gear, not impressed. [/quote]

Not sure where this came from... I do run it to the redline.. Need to be pointed in a safe direction though.. 

one of the first countermeasures was the torque smoothing calibration.

How did they do this on the 07s? Retard spark?

Ron is pretty much right on cept I think that the smaller od diameter Belleville spring is the stiffer one.. Assuming the thicknesses are the same. 

One thing nice about these springs is that they do coil bind well (go flat).  Now as Scooter wrote, the 08 and later got the pulley damper. So what happens then the front damper bottoms out? The rear pulley damper does its thing.. Maybe that makes the stock compensator OK?  One thing I've noticed is that you don't feel the cylinder firing like you do with an earlier TC motor. Power delivery is much smoother even if it is bottoming out during a rollon..

Max

[PoorUB]

The comp kit was revised sometime ago and should be OK now. It is stock on the 2011 FHLTs. Go figure

seems  that the 10's touring bikes had the SE compensator. seems i read it on this forum some time ago.

2011's have the SE, the 2010 models have the weak crappy one.

[happyman]

ahhhhhhhhhh   was given  bad info several nothes ago then  thanks

[FSG]

Keep up to date, visit the Model Year Technical Forums SECTION there's a lot of information there, for example:

2010 , New Parts Reference

2010 , Model Year Technical Forum   

2011 , New Parts Reference

2011 , Model Year Technical Forum   

[happyman]

will try  too  for sure.   

[BVHOG]

My Deuce is going back together with one of these:

http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html

I think they are only good through the 2006 models, but I am not sure as it fits on a new S&S "B" wheel set that is in my Deuce now. 

It uses a taper and teflon ring, no springs.  I'll let everyone know how it works out if I ever get back on the road again.  You can search the web to find articles about it.

Don't waste you money, a complete POS, I have one here that basically screwed itself together and secondly the nut makes holds on VERY few pinion shaft threads.

[happyman]

that is good  info  for sure.      buy more mickey mouse parts, to replace mickey  mouse parts,  disgusting anymore

[PoorUB]

Anyone killed a stock one? If the SE one provides stiffer damping is it going to help or hurt? Maybe if you like to power shift?

Max

I killed the compensator in my 2010 Ultra. It was a slow and noisey death. I noticed it knocking at 3,000 miles and had the dealer do the 5,000 service, just so he could ride it and hear the comp knocking. Of course they said everything was fine, so I waited, and racked up the miles. At about 15,000 miles I figured I could not stand the noise anymore so I brought it in and told the service manager the compensator was shot. Before he looked athe the bike he tells me that he doubts it, because compensators rarely fail. Well, he took it for a ride and surprise, they replaced the compensator. He said it was really bad, and ready to fail in a big way. I never did get to see it as I sure would have liked too. They put the factory 2010 comp back in and I swear I can here it knocking already! I have a summer on riding left on factory warranty, so we shall see.

[FSG]

My Deuce is going back together with one of these:

http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html

I think they are only good through the 2006 models, but I am not sure as it fits on a new S&S "B" wheel set that is in my Deuce now. 

It uses a taper and teflon ring, no springs.  I'll let everyone know how it works out if I ever get back on the road again.  You can search the web to find articles about it.

Don't waste you money, a complete POS, I have one here that basically screwed itself together and secondly the nut makes holds on VERY few pinion shaft threads.

Max, haven't you got one of these BDL Comps unused ?  Care to take a few measurements to post ?

[Admiral Akbar]

Still got it. What do you want? Not sure what to measure... Max

[happyman]

My Deuce is going back together with one of these:

http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html

I think they are only good through the 2006 models, but I am not sure as it fits on a new S&S "B" wheel set that is in my Deuce now. 

It uses a taper and teflon ring, no springs.  I'll let everyone know how it works out if I ever get back on the road again.  You can search the web to find articles about it.

Don't waste you money, a complete POS, I have one here that basically screwed itself together and secondly the nut makes holds on VERY few pinion shaft threads.

Max, haven't you got one of these BDL Comps unused ?  Care to take a few measurements to post ?

i know on my 2010  limited i have a lot of  what i would call cahin slap. you nitice it a lot more on up hill starts  with a passenger on also. its  makes ya woinder when the mess is gonna come out the   primary , seruously..    hd has done soem good  improvements but totally neglected  some things that should never ever be overlooked ,. but like they say its the bean counters, but then if they go  under because of junk parts  the bean counters are out of work also.          poetic justice indeed.

[05Train]

At 25,000 miles, the noise was bad, but the bike was nearly unrideable thanks to the slop in the compensator.  The dealer replaced the stock piece with an S/E under warranty.  It really makes a huge difference.

[happyman]

At 25,000 miles, the noise was bad, but the bike was nearly unrideable thanks to the slop in the compensator.  The dealer replaced the stock piece with an S/E under warranty.  It really makes a huge difference.

makes me wonder if it could be  what is going on with my bike causing the slap of the chain?

[FSG]

Still got it. What do you want? Not sure what to measure... Max

The length of the nut and the thread depth measured from the outside face of the nut.

[moose]

my buds 2010 with about 18,000 had his replace with the se version on the factory's dime it was so bad

[Mr. Fatty]

Can anyone describe the "knocking noise". When do you hear it most? In gear or neutral?, Acceleration/deceleration/cruising?