my shovel went from a 1 kick to 100 kick bike????? Why?

[Sonny Munns]

I have a '78 Shovel that has a stock motor (74"), Mikuni Carb, and '80-up ignition (I think). I just swapped the 3.5s for a sporty, changed the rear fender, made a sissy bar, went to an open belt, and took the electric start system off. Didn't do a thing to the engine, ignition, or carb. THe bike . was always a one or a two kick bike no matter hot or cold, morning or night. If I missed it on the first or second and it'd cough through the carb, i'd have about 6-8 kicks until it's fire. Never really needed the electric start.
So I got it back together two nights ago and didn't have a doubt that it'd start right up, even put some new plugs in (it was time). I must have kicked it 30 times before it started! By the time it was running I was almost too tired to ride. It coughs a lot through the carb now and will even fire for a few seconds then die. Seems to start easier when it's warmed up now, but it's still a bear.

I'm guessing carb issues, but it's always been very consistant and reliable...help!
-grant

[panz4ever]

Intake manifold leak...pressure test for leaks

Did you flush the sporty tank before putting it on? If not crap building up in the fuel filter...flush tanks and clean filter

Are you running points and condenser. Bad condenser...replace

Electrical short in starting system. Start w/ what you changed and make sure what you did is not the cause

[Dresser]

Check your battery. I had a74 FX no E. When it got the 30 kick start syndrome it always seemed to be the battery.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

You changed the tank?
Is the cap vented?
Sounds like fuel starvation.

[Sonny Munns]

i had the tank blasted inside and out and lined, so that is good.
Cap is vented. Runs fine once running.
stock Harley E-ignition.
Removed all the starting system, cleaned up and rewired the questionable wiring that was on it.
I bet it's the battery too, even though I fully charged it before starting it for the first time again. I rode it a bunch yesterday and it was much easier to start after the first start in the morning. During the rehab I also replaced the stator which was toast. I put the battery though hell for a while before hand...
I'll check the intake too.
Thanks,
Grant

[ol skool rules]

well if your lights come on, its probly not the battery. doesn't take a whole lot of juice to kick it over. you said you switched to an open belt primary. is the clutch adjusted right? might be slipping a little when you kick it so your not gettin the full suck bang blow thing. but once it gets some heat in it its enough to start it easier. got fresh gas in it? did you replace the spark plugs with the same type you took out? if not try puttin the old ones back in it and see what happens. i got the same motor carb as you but mines points, 1 kicker all day long!! might be your ignition is on the way out. i don't know much about electronic. just throwin out some ideas. hope ya figure it out

[BKACHE]

A backfire thru the carb is usually a sign of too lean a condition.
I would suspect an intake leak around the orings.
Take one side of the intake clamps off and put 3 wraps of electrical tape.
Then do the other side. 

[jerite]

Did you check the air in the tires? Just jokin'...gotta have a sense of humor with these ol' scoots..or atleast I do!
Jer

[greybeard_541]

Vac leak or too far advanced... been my two nemesis... and my $.02...

Hope it helps,
Greybeard

[Flat Dog]

After all of these great suggestions, try a compression test. Had the same problem, went thru all the same procedures, and #1 cylinder was pumping at 30 PSI. Stuck ring from running too rich for too long.

[kiwidave]

given your recent work, my money is definitely on a slipping clutch. Look over the seat and down at the clutch basket and make sure it is spinning pretty fully with the kicker pedal. Is the ''feel'' of the pedal any different to how it was pre-openbelt ??

This happened to me one time. Worn friction plates. And badly adjusted clutch. It was a double nightmare to start.

Merry Xmas!

[rigidthumper]

My vote is the nose cone unit is starting to fail.
Robin
you may have also changed the primary ratio when you switched to a belt, changing the ratio of foot movement to flywheel movement.

[Sonny Munns]

Thanks for everyone's advice.
I've gone through all this and everything checks out. Is there a difference in E-start vs. kick-only coils? A friend mentioned I outta look into it. In my experience E-ignitions either work or don't, they usually don't go out slowly.
Cold, the battery reads 12.5-12.9 volts which should be fine and is charging while running.
I'm getting better at starting it, but it's still a sonofabitch for the first start of the day. After that it's back to the 1 or 2 kicks it always was...

[Little Al]

I never really believed that when kicking the state of the battery made much difference, after all as long you get a spark right? well, after years of wasted kicks I now know that a good battery DOES make a difference.

I think (someone that knows, jump in here please) a good, fully charged battery should be closer to 13 volts, your's seems low to me. couple that with possibly a weak coil and that COULD explain the cold start only problem. Had similar problems on my '83 for a long time before I finally went to two twin tower Dyna coils (duel plug heads) and a new battery which put her back to a two-kicker, hot or cold. Just my experience with my bike, might help ya out.

[ol skool rules]

there is a difference between electronic ignition coil and a points coil, but not between e-start n k-start

little al might be right with the battery thing and an electronic ign. like i said before i'm a points guy. might take a full battery to get a good spark with a e-ign.

[Little Al]

Old Skool, it'd be pretty unusual for me to be right about anything, but I guess there's always a shot right? lol

btw, I'm running a Dyna 2000 electronic ignition

[Dogbone45ACP]

You said you didn't touch the motor, but could the push rods be too tight?. Everyone else hit on The other commen problems. Let us know, thanks Sam.

[Sonny Munns]

Only having one shot at trying a different starting procedure a day while it's cold makes progress a little slow, but for some reason it likes a few throttle squirts and 3 or 4 prime kicks before turning on the juice. Never needed anything close to it before, but whatever! Must be extra thirsty in the morning now!