Dyojet Power Vision

[djl]

What's the scoop on this system?  Claims are that it's the do all/end all in EFI tuning??

[FLTRI]

Claims are that it's the do all/end all in EFI tuning??

Beware of any claims like that.
Bob

[Steve Cole]

They introduced it at the SEMA show last week. They said it was expected to be released late next month. It programs pretty much the same as the others using a PC to do the tuning. They added a display unit instead of the interface boxes that are currently used by others. If doesn't tune anything more than what is already out there, but it does have you program the display then the display programs the bike. It saves a copy of the stock calibration so you can return to stock if you want. The display can be mounted on the bike and it will show and log data items.

[Jeffd]

The monitor/display is a great feature and no lap top needed.

[Steve Cole]

If your going to do tuning you still need the laptop. The display unit will install a new tune but it does not allow you to edit the tune itself from what they were showing.

[Herko]

Some screen shots and info:
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/powervision.htm

[strokerjlk]

thanks John.
I have hear rumors of this for a while. looks like it will be a hit. good for you Jamie!
capable of using narrow or widebands, realtime data, idle trim, and you can edit the map and flash without a laptop.
nice looking set up for home tuners.

[TXP]

I saw a prototype in Las Vegas last July. This is going to be a nice product no doubt. If its linked to tuninglink it will become a favorite of the Dyno gypsies as well because of the ability to make runable tunes quickly. You will not have access to "everything" as some will claim. You will basically be able to make changes in the same tables as offered by other products. Now, how deep did they go into the programing. I know they were looking at the torque smoothing area which TTS disables and HD does not (DBW). A lot of smart people at Dynojet and I think a good company. I do have a beef with DJ over minimum advertised pricing. Why let a few vendors destroy the retail value of your product. You can still sell it for what you want, just keep the field level. Try running heavy discounts on TTS products and you probably won't be a dealer very long. HD now has it's own MAP policy as well. I hope PowerVision doesn't go the way of Powercommander in that respect.

[TXP]

""Now, how deep did they go into the programing. I know they were looking at the torque smoothing area which TTS disables and HD does not (DBW)."
Before some one corrects me I'll do it myself. Instead of disables the torque smoothing areas, substitute handles this issue in a different manner than HD. lol..

[Steve Cole]

thanks John.
I have hear rumors of this for a while. looks like it will be a hit. good for you Jamie!
capable of using narrow or widebands, realtime data, idle trim, and you can edit the map and flash without a laptop.
nice looking set up for home tuners.

You cannot edit the calibration/map without using a laptop. The display unit allows you to load and read the calibration without a laptop. It was a nice looking unit about the size of today's touch screen cell phones.

[1FSTRK]

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Jamie Long]

You can actually do quite a bit right thru the touch screen display. Under "Edit Tune" on the screen menu you can edit several tables such as Rev limit, Accellerator Enrichement, and Speedo calibration as a few examples. You can also configure the constants such as Engine displacement and injector size, and turn features off/on like EITMS, ACR's, Knock control, PE, and others right on the display.

[Steve Cole]

What they showed at the SEMA show and what you are saying are two different things then. Guess we will just have to wait and see what it can do when it comes out late next month. It was a nice looking display.

[TXP]

Does anyone know if the new unit will be compatable with "Tuninglink" at launch. After the 1st of the year Dynojet is going to require all their "Tuning Centers" to send a tech to obtain recertification via a course at their facilty in Las Vegas.

[hrdtail78]

Dynojet told me yesterday that I wont be able to buy one until at least December.  I don't know the hold up.  He wasn't sure how much but he quoted me about $550 retail.

[Mr. Wizard]

Could you guys in the know please explain the differences in the DPV and the TTS with the exception of the nice PDA type screen so you can view your data log? No, not trying to slam heads together but... would be nice to know what the main differences are and use a baseline of a known and popular marketed tuner such as the TTS.


Such as... DPV can use wide and narrow 02 and has the screen....

Now I will freely admit the DPV at first glance looks like a really nice toy and if a similar model were based on the product usability of something like the TS/Wego so you could view and match up the proper VE's as apposed to what you are actually running I think I would get the first one off the line if it were proven to be an accurate device.

Although I am not in the market for another tuner at this time that would marry to the ECM it would be nice to know what the differences are.

thx

[Jamie Long]

What they showed at the SEMA show and what you are saying are two different things then. Guess we will just have to wait and see what it can do when it comes out late next month. It was a nice looking display.

Any information I provide is first hand from the technical involvement between Fuel Moto/Dynojet on Power Vision, including the tuning features available from the display I noted earlier.

[Jamie Long]

Does anyone know if the new unit will be compatable with "Tuninglink" at launch. After the 1st of the year Dynojet is going to require all their "Tuning Centers" to send a tech to obtain recertification via a course at their facilty in Las Vegas.

They will have an integrated tuning utility with the Dyno software which will be a completely seperate application than Tuning Link for PC III/PC-V

[TXP]

The Tuninglink product as we know it is not available for use with PowerVision as of now. It is being worked on but no projected release date is officailly available. Just spoke with Dynojet about it. There will be a separate TL type software in the future.

[Jamie Long]

Could you guys in the know please explain the differences in the DPV and the TTS with the exception of the nice PDA type screen so you can view your data log? No, not trying to slam heads together but... would be nice to know what the main differences are and use a baseline of a known and popular marketed tuner such as the TTS.


Such as... DPV can use wide and narrow 02 and has the screen....

Now I will freely admit the DPV at first glance looks like a really nice toy and if a similar model were based on the product usability of something like the TS/Wego so you could view and match up the proper VE's as apposed to what you are actually running I think I would get the first one off the line if it were proven to be an accurate device.

Although I am not in the market for another tuner at this time that would marry to the ECM it would be nice to know what the differences are.

thx

Power Vision has several unique features, with the PV screen you can configure and display the channels to your liking and view them in real time, you can datalog, you can retrieve/clear trouble codes, you can store/retrieve/send calibrations, edit the tables I noted earlier, and more. There is also comprehensive WinPV software which gives you access to a wide range of tuning tables. For tuning apps there is Auto Tune Basic which uses the nbO2 sensors to develop your tune, and Auto Tune Pro which uses the AT-100 module with dual Bosch Wideband sensors. 

One of the best features and my personal favorite with Power Vision is the ability to view and edit the factory calibration. You can simply retrieve the stock (or current) calibration with the PV screen and then send it to WinPV where you can then view and edit the calibration as required. The ability to read and write the cal is an awesome feature 

[Mr. Wizard]

Power Vision has several unique features, with the PV screen you can configure and display the channels to your liking and view them in real time, you can datalog, you can retrieve/clear trouble codes, you can store/retrieve/send calibrations, edit the tables I noted earlier, and more. There is also comprehensive WinPV software which gives you access to a wide range of tuning tables. For tuning apps there is Auto Tune Basic which uses the nbO2 sensors to develop your tune, and Auto Tune Pro which uses the AT-100 module with dual Bosch Wideband sensors. 

One of the best features and my personal favorite with Power Vision is the ability to view and edit the factory calibration. You can simply retrieve the stock (or current) calibration with the PV screen and then send it to WinPV where you can then view and edit the calibration as required. The ability to read and write the cal is an awesome feature

Thanks for that info Jamie... how about the table differences. Are there more adjustable tables on the DPV than the TTS and if so, please tell us what they are used for. Again, not trying to knock heads, just want this info out in the open to understand this new product.

[Steve Cole]

What they showed at the SEMA show and what you are saying are two different things then. Guess we will just have to wait and see what it can do when it comes out late next month. It was a nice looking display.

Any information I provide is first hand from the technical involvement between Fuel Moto/Dynojet on Power Vision, including the tuning features available from the display I noted earlier.

Several people at dynojet are personal friends of mine as well and have been for years, so they had no problems showing me the software and hardware and took me completely through it at the show. What was working and what was not, we have worked together in the past as well. We also have the first load control motorcycle dyno they ever sold. What I said is what they showed me it did. So my information is first hand from there tech people. Let's just see what it does once it's finished. The basic difference between it and Mastertune was the display unit holding the tune and installing it. There was no Vtune like feature at the show but I was told they were going to work on it.

[Jamie Long]

Thanks for that info Jamie... how about the table differences. Are there more adjustable tables on the DPV than the TTS and if so, please tell us what they are used for. Again, not trying to knock heads, just want this info out in the open to understand this new product.

There are many of the same tables as other current products on the market, there is nothing that is really going to stand out. The main differences are going to be the ability to use the display as a tool with the features discussed earlier, and the ability to use Auto Tune Pro with dual Wideband sensors. The fact that you can read and edit right from the ECM is also an excellent feature as well.

[1FSTRK]

One of the best features and my personal favorite with Power Vision is the ability to view and edit the factory calibration. You can simply retrieve the stock (or current) calibration with the PV screen and then send it to WinPV where you can then view and edit the calibration as required. The ability to read and write the cal is an awesome feature 

Finally.How many times have we asked for this feature?
The time saved by starting with a known running map and just tweaking the needed spots will alone make this worth it. Not mention being able to see what stock map settings correspond to which trouble areas.

[Jamie Long]

Several people at dynojet are personal friends of mine as well and have been for years, so they had no problems showing me the software and hardware and took me completely through it at the show. What was working and what was not, we have worked together in the past as well. We also have the first load control motorcycle dyno they ever sold. What I said is what they showed me it did. So my information is first hand from there tech people. Let's just see what it does once it's finished. The basic difference between it and Mastertune was the display unit holding the tune and installing it. There was no Vtune like feature at the show but I was told they were going to work on it.

That's cool, I guess the difference comes between the features vs what they showed you at the SEMA

[Jamie Long]

One of the best features and my personal favorite with Power Vision is the ability to view and edit the factory calibration. You can simply retrieve the stock (or current) calibration with the PV screen and then send it to WinPV where you can then view and edit the calibration as required. The ability to read and write the cal is an awesome feature 

Finally.How many times have we asked for this feature?
The time saved by starting with a known running map and just tweaking the needed spots will alone make this worth it. Not mention being able to see what stock map settings correspond to which trouble areas.

That is truly an awesome feature and has helped considerably with Power Vision tuning time

[hrdtail78]

Getting and looking at the stock calibrations is a nice feature.  Is this done with the module or the computer based software?  I am heading toward this with my questions:  Will I be able to look at any MTE file or just what one bike has?  Can I look at the MTE files I have saved from other ECM's?  And lastly.  Will I be able to download and look at ECM maps that others have programed into the ECM by means of mastertune or SESPT?  I can see how this last one will cause some problems.

[hotroadking]

What about maps for the new programmer, will they just pull in the maps available from
the other pc units into this application?

Can you actually edit cells in the maps with the tuning device such as ve, afr etc?

[Jamie Long]

Getting and looking at the stock calibrations is a nice feature.  Is this done with the module or the computer based software?  I am heading toward this with my questions:  Will I be able to look at any MTE file or just what one bike has?  Can I look at the MTE files I have saved from other ECM's?  And lastly.  Will I be able to download and look at ECM maps that others have programed into the ECM by means of mastertune or SESPT?  I can see how this last one will cause some problems.

You can save/edit any calibration from the ECM the Power Vision is married to. Once the calibration is retrieved from the ECM with the Power Vision and saved as a "stock calibration" it can then be loaded into a slot on the Tune Manager. You can then browse and import the tune to the WinPV software and view/edit as desired. You can only view and edit calibrations from the same bike as the Tune Manager is VIN specific.

[Jamie Long]

What about maps for the new programmer, will they just pull in the maps available from
the other pc units into this application?

Can you actually edit cells in the maps with the tuning device such as ve, afr etc?

Power Vision has the ability to import Power Commander maps which will be very handy for earlier models, however there will be a wide range of maps developed specifically with Power Vision. Fuel Moto has also been working on PV calibrations for the 2010 and 2011 Touring models and should have a good variety by the time the product starts shipping.

With Power Vision you have access to a wide range of tables including the following:

Front/Rear VE
Front/Rear Ignition timing
AFR/Lambda (you can display as AFR or Lambda)
Idle RPM
Rev Limiter
IAC Steps
Throttle Blade Control on Drive by Wire models
Injector size
Cranking Fuel
Acceleration enrichment
Deceleration enleanment
PE fuel
PE spark
Warmup Enrichment
Speedo Calibration
EITMS
Knock Control
Adaptive Knock
AND MORE.........

[1FSTRK]

Looks like there's a new sheriff in town.

[Jeffd]

Lots of other manufactures will be scrambling and I bet HD is too.

[Steve Cole]

Guys, do not take this the wrong way but what is there to scramble over? Dynojet introduced this at the HD summer dealer show and now again at SEMA. They cannot tune anything more that is not already out there. Yes, it has a nice display but as far as tables to tune and constants to adjust it doesn't do anything more and not as much as others. So if your looking for a LCD display to be on your bike it's a nice option, but if you think it's going to allow you to tune more items to get a better tune it's just not there. It allows you to tune one bike and what they showed at SEMA and what they told me as we went through the software, then what Jamie says are two different things. So let's see what it really is when it comes out.

I am sure it will be a nice unit and an option for those who want a LCD display. As for changing the tuning market we will have to wait and see.

[Don D]

Jamie
Are they going to offer the option on the ETC bikes to toggle off "speed limiter" and "torque limiter"?

[Jeffd]

Reply 10 looks like dynojet literature.  It appears that for the average joe it would be a cheaper and easier option, maybe not tho.  For me it would be cheaper because no lap top needed.  msrp 550 and minus 20% depending on where you get it pretty good price.

[FBRR]

For tuning it would be nice to see the O2 sensors on the "logging".
The other BIG question is how fast are both the "LOGGING" and display?
( It will be interesting to see if the logging and/or display are recording actual ECM LOOP times? )

[Jamie Long]

Jamie
Are they going to offer the option on the ETC bikes to toggle off "speed limiter" and "torque limiter"?

There are not tables for speed or torque limiters within Power Vision, and because these strategies change based on model year, calibration level etc.. it is not as simple as toggling them off and on in the calibration, however there have been some corrections as necessary

[Jamie Long]

can it collect data from the bike?  For later viewing?  Like spark retard actions, etc.?

Yes you can log all ECM channels on the Power Vision and export it to the log viewer for review

[Jamie Long]

For tuning it would be nice to see the O2 sensors on the "logging".
The other BIG question is how fast are both the "LOGGING" and display?
( It will be interesting to see if the logging and/or display are recording actual ECM LOOP times? )

With the factory nbO2 sensors you can display Front/Rear O2 voltage, Front/Rear Closed loop integrator, Front/Rear AFV, and VE/VE New is also helpful. I will try to put together a small video to show how the display functions

[Jamie Long]

Cool.  Could you check with DJ and get back with us on the speed limiter and the torque limiting functions?  We are kind of a 'nuts and bolts' crowd on this forum.

With the maps that will be available, DJ may have a nice product forthcoming.

As far as 'older maps'... if those are PC maps... how does that really help us?  I don't see PC maps changing cam timing, etc.

Can you clarify for us?

I cannot post how Dynojet engineers worked around ECM strategies and protocols, that is their information not mine to share. As far as converting PC maps they have hundreds and hundreds of them, many of them with different cams which will be a big help for earlier models. Currently and going forward they are putting a huge effort in Power Vision calibrations. 

[hotroadking]

The advent of more base maps with closer or exact timing
on cams and/or any other "requirements" such as displacement etc will be
great....

[FLTRI]

The advent of more base maps with closer or exact timing
on cams and/or any other "requirements" such as displacement etc will be
great....

From a tuner's perspective, knowing injector output vary +/- 10%+, makes it the luck of the draw to get a good/close base map.

Canned maps do not work very well IMO, based on my experience.

Now a software product that enables the tuner/user to effectively address EGR, cam timing, and exhaust anomalies is much better way to address the idiosyncrasies of builds.

Hopefully a company will address these issues with software the tuner/user can modify how the system handles these issues.
Bob

[Jamie Long]

The advent of more base maps with closer or exact timing
on cams and/or any other "requirements" such as displacement etc will be
great....

Yes, that will be nice. Another great Power Vision feature is the ability to save and label a single table as a Value File. For example if you have base timing table or say a specific Lambda/AFR table you developed, you can easily place the Value file to any calibration, no opening/closing multiple maps or copy/paste required 

[Jamie Long]

The advent of more base maps with closer or exact timing
on cams and/or any other "requirements" such as displacement etc will be
great....

From a tuner's perspective, knowing injector output vary +/- 10%+, makes it the luck of the draw to get a good/close base map.

Canned maps do not work very well IMO, based on my experience.

Now a software product that enables the tuner/user to effectively address EGR, cam timing, and exhaust anomalies is much better way to address the idiosyncrasies of builds.

Hopefully a company will address these issues with software the tuner/user can modify how the system handles these issues.
Bob

You need to start somewhere, wouldnt it be nice to have the closest map possible, or a wide range to choose from?

[strokerjlk]

You need to start somewhere, wouldnt it be nice to have the closest map possible, or a wide range to choose from?

yes that will be nice . cant hurt.
the way I see some bikes run after a so called dyno tune. the tuner would have been better off loading a canned map and leaving it alone.
I see a new trend on the way here.....dyno operators loading several canned maps and doing pulls until they get one that runs decent and makes decent numbers. then here you go .thank you very much. there is a lot of that going on already,just see it getting worse. if the data base gets larger . not knocking the product Jamie..... just saying.
Looks like a nice product
cant wait to see how it looks at AFV'S

[hotroadking]

Thats happening already, tons of users buy HD cams, filters and slip ons, and a SESPT,
it gets rolled on a dyno, they upload a canned map, make three pulls and hand the bike
and dyno sheet back to the user, who, unlike many here understand thinks it's been dyno tuned

Having a starting map that is closer to your needs would seem to allow both the
home tuner and professional to go through many maps, find the best and then
tune from there, saving time, wear and tear on equipment, and possibly increasing
the profitability of tuning an EFI bike..

[FLTRI]

...would seem to allow both the home tuner and professional to go through many maps, find the best and then tune from there, saving time, wear and tear on equipment, and possibly increasing
the profitability of tuning an EFI bike..

I do exactly that now and can say it takes about 10-15mins per cal to test a calibration for usability.

You need to load the cal, bring the temps to norm, make a couple pulls, then check the part throttle AFRs. Then repeat the procedure until you are happy with a starting calibration and reload that to start the process of tuning.

If you need to go through say, 10 cals to get to the best one to start with, you are talking the better part of 2 hrs.
Bob

[slik rik]

When I see a thread like this all I can think of is this thread

How to get BEST 'Home Made Tune?

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,26424.0.html

This thread has widened my eyes to this whole industry of EFI tuners. I read all of this and now have a very clear picture of what is needed in a EFI tune....without a four gas analyzer forget it....canned map will do most fine on the street....just my .02

[lonewolf]

I read all of this and now have a very clear picture of what is needed in a EFI tune....without a four gas analyzer forget it....canned map will do most fine on the street....just my .02

Not doubting a 4 gas, but have you ever ridden a properly afr tuned bike?

[FLTRI]

FWIW, 4 gas analyzers are absolutely required for emissions testing but are of little use in performance markets. If they were all high dollar/performance racing engines would be 4 gas tuned. They are not.

Bob

[lonewolf]

I am definately not as up to speed on gas analyzers as I would like to be. Understanding the levels of each gas in relationship to each other gives a great insight into what is happening, whether for tuning or diagnostics, for example working the timing tables at less than wot. I think the downfall is most are 12v portable units and are just to slow.

[1FSTRK]

The advent of more base maps with closer or exact timing
on cams and/or any other "requirements" such as displacement etc will be
great....

From a tuner's perspective, knowing injector output vary +/- 10%+, makes it the luck of the draw to get a good/close base map.

Canned maps do not work very well IMO, based on my experience.

Now a software product that enables the tuner/user to effectively address EGR, cam timing, and exhaust anomalies is much better way to address the idiosyncrasies of builds.

Hopefully a company will address these issues with software the tuner/user can modify how the system handles these issues.
Bob

It's great that everyone is trying to make a better home/self tuning device.
I personally hire a pro to tune my bike because it's cheaper to pay him than to pay to fix my mistakes.
I do stay during the tuning process and as this is my hobby I read here and try to stay up to speed on all this.
I would love to see a device for the professional tuner to use to address the things Bob spoke of. I would think that with all the ECM controls and monitors that I would be able to make my new bike run better than my old carb bike. By that I mean we have talked long hours about how the carb adds fuel based on air pulses from the motor and if we could use a computer to add fuel when we want to then we would not be a slave to these pulses.  This would allow a much broader control when testing different combinations. If I can't trynew things I don't spend money, If I wanted what everone else has I would have left it stock.
All that said, I still Love this sh*t.

[bbrowncods]

If it will tune over 80 kpa on wideband, it already beats TTS in my book.

[Jamie Long]

If it will tune over 80 kpa on wideband, it already beats TTS in my book.

With Auto Tune Pro and the optional AT-100 dual Wideband module you can tune the entire range of the calibration, or just parts of it as you can pick the AFR data you would like to apply to the cal

[hrdtail78]

How much is retail on everything one needs to tune the entire range?  Including the optional AT-100.

[Jamie Long]

How much is retail on everything one needs to tune the entire range?  Including the optional AT-100.

Power Vision MSRP is $549.00 and the AT-100 MSRP is $369.00

[FLTRI]

Can a tuner buy 1 system and make his living tuning bikes from 1 purchase?
Thanks,
Bob

[Jamie Long]

Can a tuner buy 1 system and make his living tuning bikes from 1 purchase?
Thanks,
Bob

Like other flash tuners, Power Vision marries to a single ECM

[hotroadking]

Heres the short and I mean cut short video

Power Vision from Dynojet Research ID9585

[hotroadking]

Jamie how does it mount to the bars
does it have a ball to fit with Ram mount
or do you have to buy a mount or
does it come with the mount..


I know the questions are mounting... ok that was bad....

[Jamie Long]

Jamie how does it mount to the bars
does it have a ball to fit with Ram mount
or do you have to buy a mount or
does it come with the mount..


I know the questions are mounting... ok that was bad....

You could use a Ram mount, Techmount, and most common GPS brackets will work to mount the unit. The mount is not included with the PV, we are working on a simple mount for either the clutch/brake clamp. 

[Mr. Wizard]

http://www.ram-mount.com/CatalogResults/PartDetails/tabid/63/partid/082065077045066045050053050085/Default.aspx

This one goes on the brake or clutch hinge. It can also be used under the mirror stem.

[Jeffd]

Jamie how does it mount to the bars
does it have a ball to fit with Ram mount
or do you have to buy a mount or
does it come with the mount..


I know the questions are mounting... ok that was bad....

looks like a good use for industrial velcro.

[Eleft36]

Jamie how does it mount to the bars
does it have a ball to fit with Ram mount
or do you have to buy a mount or
does it come with the mount..


I know the questions are mounting... ok that was bad....

looks like a good use for industrial velcro.

Yes jeffd, to mount it on the forearm, it may not be possible to read on the "A" motor bikes handle bar at idle.
Al

[hrdtail78]

Yep. Sensors last forever.   

[hotroadking]

 jmo a screw setup to match the ram diamond mount,
the diamond ball is $8 or so, sell it with it, a 3 inch arm and U mount as an option.

then they can hook up Ipod, Camera, GPS whatever...

[Jamie Long]

Here is a quick Power Vision video that goes thru some of the features


PV_SEMA FULL.mp4

[Don D]

May have been answered already but does the PCV have any autotune feature, data logging and then commit to program, similar to what the competitors have?

[Jamie Long]

May have been answered already but does the PCV have any autotune feature, data logging and then commit to program, similar to what the competitors have?

Yes, there is Auto Tune Basic which allows you to populate the VE tables with the factory nbO2 sensors, and there is Auto Tune Pro which uses the optional AT-100 with dual Wideband sensors 

[Don D]

Very interesting
What is the advantage to the wide bands and that added module?

[Jamie Long]

Very interesting
What is the advantage to the wide bands and that added module?

The Wideband sensors give you the ability to sample/tune the entire VE table, and the WB can sample over a much broader range than the stock nbO2 sensors. With Auto Tune Pro you can set your AFR/Lambda table to your actual target from approx 11:1-17:1 AFR, rather than an area where the stock nbO2 sensors will switch 14.6:1 (+/- .5)   

[wurk_truk]

Uh Oh!  I can hear them coming around the bend.... the wide band police!!!

They gonna make you look like the chicken leg in a Tums commercial!!!!!

[Don D]

I can see how being able to sample and tune the whole operating range is a valuable feature, that is nice and me I don't give a rats arse about what I screw into the pipe to get that. I assume then the narrow bands would go back in after the tune is done and this tune will run in closed loop, or at least the portion chosen by the end user to be controled by the narrow bands?

[Jamie Long]

I can see how being able to sample and tune the whole operating range is a valuable feature, that is nice and me I don't give a rats arse about what I screw into the pipe to get that. I assume then the narrow bands would go back in after the tune is done and this tune will run in closed loop, or at least the portion chosen by the end user to be controled by the narrow bands?

Yes, you could develop your tune with the WB sensors over the entire map, you can also go back in and retain normal closed loop operation with the factory nbO2 sensors based on the targets in your AFR/Lambda table

[Sam45]

I think i have read that the DPV will store up to 6 maps? 

[hrdtail78]

When is the manual/directions gonna be released for download?  A lot of my questions could be answered that way. 

[Jamie Long]

I think i have read that the DPV will store up to 6 maps?

Power Vision will store the entire database of maps, however you have the ability toggle between 6 "hot" calibrations within the Tune Manager

[Jamie Long]

When is the manual/directions gonna be released for download?  A lot of my questions could be answered that way.

Dynojet is currently in the process of writing the manual, I will post it on our website when it is available

[Rider57]

Guess it's time to dust off the Superflo and clean out the Horiba cabinet!!

[BigD]

Not bashing anybody or anything, but I would like to interject some reality to the situation.  All this is from the perspective of a home tuner.

It has been said you can tune without the need for a laptop I'll use laptop in place of PC so it doesn't confuse anyone).   In watching the video it appears the WinPV software runs on a laptop.  So, is the auto-tune done on a laptop or in the display unit itself?  It appears you need the laptop.

It has also been said the unit will hold the entire database of maps.  I find that hard to believe unless the unit has an internal hard drive or something to augment the memory.

All that screen flipping while riding is going to pose a serious safety concern.  It's likely going to be pretty useless unless you're strapped on a dyno, and then why not just use the interface they haven't released yet.

I do like the fact that you no longer need to find a place to stuff the Power Commander.

I am not sure that the cost of the wide band module is worth it to a home tuner.  It's about the same cost as a professional tune.  Of course, those without a tuner nearby may have a different opinion.

[Don D]

All points well taken but really the TTS and a Vtune session poses all the same concerns, not trying to find high ground for either product but riding around and peering at a small screen and trying to hit all the cells with data can be  a little dangerous especially with a high torque build.

[FLTRI]

Last summer I did a test to see just what is involved with LIVE tuning onboard (PCIII) while riding down the road looking at a monitor and making adjustments.

What an eye opener!!!

If it wasn't for my wife on the back tapping me on the shoulder when I wandered into oncoming traffic, I would have died at least 10 times.

Just what the rider thinks is a glance down to the monitor is enough time @ 80 mph to move into another lane!!!

By far and agAIn the most dangerous activity I've ever engaged in on a motorcycle.
I DO NOT RECOMMEND LIVE TUNING ON THE STREET!!!

[TXP]

Competition is good. It makes everyone better. PV looks nice and I'm sure it will have its own niche. But realistically any sort of autotune device, including "tuninglink" software on the Dyno is never going to replace the experience and knowledge of a pro tuner. TL is just a tool and is only as good as the operator. It is not a panacea. And, just because a guy has owned a dyno for 6 months and passed a three day course doesn't make that guy a pro tuner either. No more than buying a $30k guitar makes you sound Jimmy Page if you don't have the experience. It takes years of experience to learn to properly operate a dyno let alone the caveats of tuning and the idiosyncrasies of the plethora of tuning products available in the marketplace. When choosing the route you want to travel in tuning your bike please remember a "home tuner" is not going to practically be able to achieve the same results practicing their hobby as a tuning pro who makes his living tuning. It's more like buying a decent guitar and assuming after reading the instructions that came with it your ready to go on stage with the band. It just doesn't work that way folks. Even if you know a few chords or you understand basic engine principles, you can no more compete with a pro tuner than with Jimmy Page..lol..Well, I found the analogy amusing anyways..hope you did too as no disrespect is intended towards anyone in this post.

[Sam45]

To me who cares if you still need a PC to make any adjustments at least you dont have to strap a laptop to the bike.  Nice little unit to data log. Whoo Hoo!

[BigD]

If you ever went to hear Led Zeppelin live, you would have probably chosen another guitar player for your analogy.  Jimmy Paige was a hack compared to Eric Clapton



My point was more to the effect of taking all the marketing hype about this or any product, for that matter, with a measure of guarded optimism until it proves itself out.

Bob, I'm glad you had your wife along!   

[strokerjlk]

sounds like a great product for sure and will fill a need for a lot of the current PC users. it has a lot of features that should be handy for a home tuner. I really would like to use one to see what it is made of.
but as far as using me using one for a bike of mine I will stick to speed density.
it will be great for the jap bikes that you have to use Alpha N.
the ability to use wide bands to home  tune the whole map, will definitely steer some that would other wise use a speed density system.

[FLTRI]

Competition is good. It makes everyone better. PV looks nice and I'm sure it will have its own niche. But realistically any sort of autotune device, including "tuninglink" software on the Dyno is never going to replace the experience and knowledge of a pro tuner. TL is just a tool and is only as good as the operator. It is not a panacea. And, just because a guy has owned a dyno for 6 months and passed a three day course doesn't make that guy a pro tuner either. No more than buying a $30k guitar makes you sound Jimmy Page if you don't have the experience. It takes years of experience to learn to properly operate a dyno let alone the caveats of tuning and the idiosyncrasies of the plethora of tuning products available in the marketplace. When choosing the route you want to travel in tuning your bike please remember a "home tuner" is not going to practically be able to achieve the same results practicing their hobby as a tuning pro who makes his living tuning. It's more like buying a decent guitar and assuming after reading the instructions that came with it your ready to go on stage with the band. It just doesn't work that way folks. Even if you know a few chords or you understand basic engine principles, you can no more compete with a pro tuner than with Jimmy Page..lol..Well, I found the analogy amusing anyways..hope you did too as no disrespect is intended towards anyone in this post.

Well stated.
Bob

[wolf_59]

All points well taken but really the TTS and a Vtune session poses all the same concerns, not trying to find high ground for either product but riding around and peering at a small screen and trying to hit all the cells with data can be  a little dangerous especially with a high torque build.

Absolutely not necessary or required for using Vtune, for those of us that still use TP for tuning VE's tape the throttle and mark the throttle positions hit a TP and hold it steady 2-3 times move to the next and repeat
Or you could just follow the directions and just ride as you normally would and trying to hit as many different TP's as possible

[Tnbrit]

If you ever went to hear Led Zeppelin live, you would have probably chosen another guitar player for your analogy.  Jimmy Paige was a hack compared to Eric Clapton

Not much to do with tuners,but i'm having a hard time imagining Clapton with Zeppelin,Jimmy Page may not be the greatest lead player ever,but Zeppelin where all about the impact of one of the greatest 3 piece ryhthm sections ever(plus the vocals) & Page's Ryhthm playing was(and still is)awesome.

[porthole2]

Maybe I missed it?

Does this imprint the ECM permanently?

My bike does not have O2 sensors (but does have bungs), will a version be available to add O2 sensors and let it "auto-tune"

[strokerjlk]

Maybe I missed it?

Does this imprint the ECM permanently?

My bike does not have O2 sensors (but does have bungs), will a version be available to add O2 sensors and let it "auto-tune"

you know what maybe I missed it also. I assumed it was alpha N maybe it is speed density? Jamie?
looks like there is auto tune .

[Mr. Wizard]

Maybe I missed it?

Does this imprint the ECM permanently?

My bike does not have O2 sensors (but does have bungs), will a version be available to add O2 sensors and let it "auto-tune"

Mentioned earlier... it will use the AT-100 device, which is an optional sale item, for auto tune.

The AT-100 is the auto tuning device for the PCV.

[1FSTRK]

You don't have to leave it on the bike and it flashes the ecm so it must be speed density

[Jamie Long]

Not bashing anybody or anything, but I would like to interject some reality to the situation.  All this is from the perspective of a home tuner.

It has been said you can tune without the need for a laptop I'll use laptop in place of PC so it doesn't confuse anyone).   In watching the video it appears the WinPV software runs on a laptop.  So, is the auto-tune done on a laptop or in the display unit itself?  It appears you need the laptop.

It has also been said the unit will hold the entire database of maps.  I find that hard to believe unless the unit has an internal hard drive or something to augment the memory.

All that screen flipping while riding is going to pose a serious safety concern.  It's likely going to be pretty useless unless you're strapped on a dyno, and then why not just use the interface they haven't released yet.

I do like the fact that you no longer need to find a place to stuff the Power Commander.

I am not sure that the cost of the wide band module is worth it to a home tuner.  It's about the same cost as a professional tune.  Of course, those without a tuner nearby may have a different opinion.

The Power Vision display allows you to make adjustments to certain tables without a laptop, however the WinPV software allows access to all the tuning tables and features and is very comprehensive. The PV unit has an internal memory which allows you to store the entire Dynojet calibration database as well as a custom dealer calibration, you can send any stored cals to the Tune manager area which allows a choice of 6 calibrations to be easily flashed. The internal memory will also store your data logs which can be played back thru the PV display or exported. I would not expect most will be screen flipping as you cannot flash the ECM while the motor is running, the PV display was designed to allow users to display/monitor/log all of the channels and having used the Power Vision in real world conditions I can say the display is pretty awesome. 

[Jamie Long]

you know what maybe I missed it also. I assumed it was alpha N maybe it is speed density? Jamie?

The system remains speed density

[Jamie Long]

I also welcome any tuners or enthusiasts to stop by and I would be happy to give a more in depth demonstration on how Power Vision works and its feaures. We have several bikes with PV and can show you how the product works and can also go thru the WinPV software

[TXP]

Hopefully to clear up some confusion all Delphi Systems on HD are speed density. PV reflashes the ECM which as noted is speed density. Formerly PCIII and V were ADD ON devices which dealt only with certain signals by adding or subtracting fuel injector pulse width in the alpha n format via direct injector signal manipulation technology after that signal had already left the ecm headed for the injector. You could also manipilate the ignition timing signal. Both could be manipulated on a per cylinder basis. PV will download a map to the ecm in a similar fashion as TTS/SESPT/Direct Link/or even Stage I Digital Tech type products do. The "reflash" must be performed when the bike is not running.

[BigD]

Not bashing anybody or anything, but I would like to interject some reality to the situation.  All this is from the perspective of a home tuner.

It has been said you can tune without the need for a laptop I'll use laptop in place of PC so it doesn't confuse anyone).   In watching the video it appears the WinPV software runs on a laptop.  So, is the auto-tune done on a laptop or in the display unit itself?  It appears you need the laptop.

It has also been said the unit will hold the entire database of maps.  I find that hard to believe unless the unit has an internal hard drive or something to augment the memory.

All that screen flipping while riding is going to pose a serious safety concern.  It's likely going to be pretty useless unless you're strapped on a dyno, and then why not just use the interface they haven't released yet.

I do like the fact that you no longer need to find a place to stuff the Power Commander.

I am not sure that the cost of the wide band module is worth it to a home tuner.  It's about the same cost as a professional tune.  Of course, those without a tuner nearby may have a different opinion.

The Power Vision display allows you to make adjustments to certain tables without a laptop, however the WinPV software allows access to all the tuning tables and features and is very comprehensive. The PV unit has an internal memory which allows you to store the entire Dynojet calibration database as well as a custom dealer calibration, you can send any stored cals to the Tune manager area which allows a choice of 6 calibrations to be easily flashed. The internal memory will also store your data logs which can be played back thru the PV display or exported. I would not expect most will be screen flipping as you cannot flash the ECM while the motor is running, the PV display was designed to allow users to display/monitor/log all of the channels and having used the Power Vision in real world conditions I can say the display is pretty awesome. 

Jamie, thanks for clarifying. So it sounds like it was designed to operate in the same manner as TTS, that is, data log then analyze in detail on a laptop.

[strokerjlk]

you know what maybe I missed it also. I assumed it was alpha N maybe it is speed density? Jamie?

The system remains speed density

thanks Jamie. 
sorry for any confusion. sounds better all the time.

[Jamie Long]

It has also been said the unit will hold the entire database of maps.  I find that hard to believe unless the unit has an internal hard drive or something to augment the memory.

Jamie, thanks for clarifying. So it sounds like it was designed to operate in the same manner as TTS, that is, data log then analyze in detail on a laptop.

Power Vision has a full 2GB of memory, this is enough to hold several thousand calibrations and a wide assortment of datalogs. Any stored info can also be easily exported to WinPv

[remington007]

The question of map selection matching as close as possible to intake timing comes to mind. Is there going to be base maps taking this into consideration?? Or is the stock base map stay in control of injector timing?

[BVHOG]

Jamie, what is the cost per bike for the ecm access portion? I may take you up on that demonstration if time allows. Looks like this could be a nice alternative to the TTS/SEST if the price is in line.

[hrdtail78]

How much is retail on everything one needs to tune the entire range?  Including the optional AT-100.

Power Vision MSRP is $549.00 and the AT-100 MSRP is $369.00

[lonewolf]

I may take you up on that demonstration if time allows.

Maybe make it a group visit. It would be nice to meet some of you guys.

[drhooligan]

It has also been said the unit will hold the entire database of maps.  I find that hard to believe unless the unit has an internal hard drive or something to augment the memory.

Jamie, thanks for clarifying. So it sounds like it was designed to operate in the same manner as TTS, that is, data log then analyze in detail on a laptop.

Power Vision has a full 2GB of memory, this is enough to hold several thousand calibrations and a wide assortment of datalogs. Any stored info can also be easily exported to WinPv

2GB, wow, nice amount of memory for sure. I remember when we ran our entire business and data base of a 500 MB hard drive. Hope there are going to be some base maps for the new Woods TW-555.

[Jamie Long]

It has also been said the unit will hold the entire database of maps.  I find that hard to believe unless the unit has an internal hard drive or something to augment the memory.

Jamie, thanks for clarifying. So it sounds like it was designed to operate in the same manner as TTS, that is, data log then analyze in detail on a laptop.

Power Vision has a full 2GB of memory, this is enough to hold several thousand calibrations and a wide assortment of datalogs. Any stored info can also be easily exported to WinPv

2GB, wow, nice amount of memory for sure. I remember when we ran our entire business and data base of a 500 MB hard drive. Hope there are going to be some base maps for the new Woods TW-555.

As many of you know I work pretty closely with Bobby Wood, I have already developed several Power Vision calibrations with the TW-555 cams and coming into spring should have a pretty good assortment of cals with his cams

[Heatwave3]

It has also been said the unit will hold the entire database of maps.  I find that hard to believe unless the unit has an internal hard drive or something to augment the memory.

Jamie, thanks for clarifying. So it sounds like it was designed to operate in the same manner as TTS, that is, data log then analyze in detail on a laptop.

Power Vision has a full 2GB of memory, this is enough to hold several thousand calibrations and a wide assortment of datalogs. Any stored info can also be easily exported to WinPv

2GB, wow, nice amount of memory for sure. I remember when we ran our entire business and data base of a 500 MB hard drive. Hope there are going to be some base maps for the new Woods TW-555.

As many of you know I work pretty closely with Bobby Wood, I have already developed several Power Vision calibrations with the TW-555 cams and coming into spring should have a pretty good assortment of cals with his cams

How about PV Calibrations for a Woods 408-6cam on a 110" with headwork, larger injectors and a 58mm TBW TB?

[FLTRI]

How about...Calibrations for a Woods 408-6cam on a 110" with headwork, larger injectors and a 58mm TBW TB?

This is why canned calibrations are useless, unless there is one for every cam/head/TB/exhaust system combination and injector output quantity, it is still just a canned map...basically useless, except to get it to a qualified experienced tuner.

Now if the software asked for cam and exhaust along with injector and TB sizes, then developed a calibration for a base starting point, that would be worth the price of admission right there.

Just my $.02,
Bob

[Jamie Long]

How about PV Calibrations for a Woods 408-6cam on a 110" with headwork, larger injectors and a 58mm TBW TB?

It is going to be tough finding a calibration with those mods and likely a while before we have anything specifically close. However with Power Vision you are able to capture, view and directly edit the current ECM calibration regardless if it is a simple HD stage flash or a tuner calibration which is very handy if you already have a cal you have been working on with a previous tuning platform

[TXP]

How about...Calibrations for a Woods 408-6cam on a 110" with headwork, larger injectors and a 58mm TBW TB?

This is why canned calibrations are useless, unless there is one for every cam/head/TB/exhaust system combination and injector output quantity, it is still just a canned map...basically useless, except to get it to a qualified experienced tuner.

Now if the software asked for cam and exhaust along with injector and TB sizes, then developed a calibration for a base starting point, that would be worth the price of admission right there.

Just my $.02,
Bob

[Heatwave3]

How about PV Calibrations for a Woods 408-6cam on a 110" with headwork, larger injectors and a 58mm TBW TB?

It is going to be tough finding a calibration with those mods and likely a while before we have anything specifically close. However with Power Vision you are able to capture, view and directly edit the current ECM calibration regardless if it is a simple HD stage flash or a tuner calibration which is very handy if you already have a cal you have been working on with a previous tuning platform

How about a calibration map for a 110" with headwork, high-lift cam, 2:1 exhaust and larger TB as a starting point? I would think you must have something for an upgraded 110" beyond just an A/C and exhaust upgrade.

[Jamie Long]

How about PV Calibrations for a Woods 408-6cam on a 110" with headwork, larger injectors and a 58mm TBW TB?

It is going to be tough finding a calibration with those mods and likely a while before we have anything specifically close. However with Power Vision you are able to capture, view and directly edit the current ECM calibration regardless if it is a simple HD stage flash or a tuner calibration which is very handy if you already have a cal you have been working on with a previous tuning platform

How about a calibration map for a 110" with headwork, high-lift cam, 2:1 exhaust and larger TB as a starting point? I would think you must have something for an upgraded 110" beyond just an A/C and exhaust upgrade.

Both Dynojet and Fuel Moto are working hard on calibrations, however we have a lot of applications to cover. Fuel Moto owns a handful of bikes for R&D, we have developed cals for our 107 big bore kit and are currently concentrating on 96" and 2010/2011 factory 103" cals. We are first covering the AC/exhaust cals and moving forward from there, Dynojet is using the same approach as well

[strokerjlk]

How about PV Calibrations for a Woods 408-6cam on a 110" with headwork, larger injectors and a 58mm TBW TB?

It is going to be tough finding a calibration with those mods and likely a while before we have anything specifically close. However with Power Vision you are able to capture, view and directly edit the current ECM calibration regardless if it is a simple HD stage flash or a tuner calibration which is very handy if you already have a cal you have been working on with a previous tuning platform

How about a calibration map for a 110" with headwork, high-lift cam, 2:1 exhaust and larger TB as a starting point? I would think you must have something for an upgraded 110" beyond just an A/C and exhaust upgrade.

Both Dynojet and Fuel Moto are working hard on calibrations, however we have a lot of applications to cover. Fuel Moto owns a handful of bikes for R&D, we have developed cals for our 107 big bore kit and are currently concentrating on 96" and 2010/2011 factory 103" cals. We are first covering the AC/exhaust cals and moving forward from there, Dynojet is using the same approach as well

this is going to be a +, someone actually using real bikes,besides the MOCO to develop maps.

[hrdtail78]

Jamie

Cool to see other cams besides the Moco for sure. Was wondering if you could explain alittle more why it is so important that a close cam or the cam is so important to use?

[remington007]

Jamie
That brings me back to my prior post. Does the Vision base maps take into account intake cam timing for injector pulse timing??
Or does it retain the stock or prior map ECM calibration?? Thanks

[Jamie Long]

Jamie

Cool to see other cams besides the Moco for sure. Was wondering if you could explain alittle more why it is so important that a close cam or the cam is so important to use?

VE is essentially the amount of air/fuel that will enter the cylinder in relation to air pressure. Since a cam's lift, duration, and overlap can greatly affect actual airflow, these changes in airflow need to be correctly modeled in the calibration

[Jamie Long]

Jamie
That brings me back to my prior post. Does the Vision base maps take into account intake cam timing for injector pulse timing??
Or does it retain the stock or prior map ECM calibration?? Thanks

It all depends on what you are starting with for a base calibration. There will be an assortment of Power Vision calibrations that have been developed with aftermarket cams (for example we already have several cals for the Wood TW-555's) However the only way it would use the stock parameters is if you want to capture and edit your existing stock ECM calibration as it will expose whatever is currently in the ECM

[1FSTRK]

Jamie
That brings me back to my prior post. Does the Vision base maps take into account intake cam timing for injector pulse timing??Or does it retain the stock or prior map ECM calibration?? Thanks

It all depends on what you are starting with for a base calibration. There will be an assortment of Power Vision calibrations that have been developed with aftermarket cams (for example we already have several cals for the Wood TW-555's) However the only way it would use the stock parameters is if you want to capture and edit your existing stock ECM calibration as it will expose whatever is currently in the ECM

Jamie
Are you saying that there is a table for injector or cam timing?

[Jamie Long]

Jamie
That brings me back to my prior post. Does the Vision base maps take into account intake cam timing for injector pulse timing??Or does it retain the stock or prior map ECM calibration?? Thanks

It all depends on what you are starting with for a base calibration. There will be an assortment of Power Vision calibrations that have been developed with aftermarket cams (for example we already have several cals for the Wood TW-555's) However the only way it would use the stock parameters is if you want to capture and edit your existing stock ECM calibration as it will expose whatever is currently in the ECM

Jamie
Are you saying that there is a table for injector or cam timing?

No there are not tables for injector or cam timing. I was making reference to the difference between capture/editing a stock ECM calibration with PV versus using a PV calibration that was developed with specific components

[Jeffd]

what happens if your ecm crashes and needs to be replaced will you need a new power vision?

[Jamie Long]

what happens if your ecm crashes and needs to be replaced will you need a new power vision?

You will be able to re-marry the Power Vision to the new ECM with a special utility in the update client which will verify specific info such as the VIN

[1FSTRK]

As many of you know I work pretty closely with Bobby Wood,I have already developed several Power Vision calibrations with the TW-555 cams and coming into spring should have a pretty good assortment of cals with his cams

Jamie
When you make these calibrations for specific cams do you have access to more/different controls than we do when we use Power Vision?

I guess my question is are you just building a good tune using PV or are you writing the base cal for the cam in places that we don't have access to with PV?

[Jamie Long]

As many of you know I work pretty closely with Bobby Wood,I have already developed several Power Vision calibrations with the TW-555 cams and coming into spring should have a pretty good assortment of cals with his cams

Jamie
When you make these calibrations for specific cams do you have access to more/different controls than we do when we use Power Vision?

I guess my question is are you just building a good tune using PV or are you writing the base cal for the cam in places that we don't have access to with PV?

At the engineering level there are various tables and switches in the background of the cal that can be edited/switched which are not exposed in the WinPv software

[TXP]

So are we to infer that you are working with an "engineering level" version of the PV product to build these base tunes? One which includes cam and injector timing and related algorithms that the rest of us will not have access to? Or, are you using the production intent version of the PV program we will all have access too? Just curious as has been stated in other threads changing these parameters changes a lot of other things as well. That's why it is usually as you said, "on the engineering level" that these items are done.

[Jamie Long]

So are we to infer that you are working with an "engineering level" version of the PV product to build these base tunes? One which includes cam and injector timing and related algorithms that the rest of us will not have access to? Or, are you using the production intent version of the PV program we will all have access too? Just curious as has been stated in other threads changing these parameters changes a lot of other things as well. That's why it is usually as you said, "on the engineering level" that these items are done.

The software at the engineering level contains a wide range of switches and definitions, and much of it is raw code. When I am developing a calibration in-house Dynojet supplies me with a starting point for a specific combination and I am off to the dyno, I am using very similar software to what will be provided at the consumer level

[1FSTRK]

The software at the engineering level contains a wide range of switches and definitions, and much of it is raw code. When I am developing a calibration in-house Dynojet supplies me with a starting point for a specific combination and I am off to the dyno, I am using very similar software to what will be provided at the consumer level

Will they/you be developing base cals for other brands of cams?
Perhaps a by request or custom program?

[Jamie Long]

The software at the engineering level contains a wide range of switches and definitions, and much of it is raw code. When I am developing a calibration in-house Dynojet supplies me with a starting point for a specific combination and I am off to the dyno, I am using very similar software to what will be provided at the consumer level

Will they/you be developing base cals for other brands of cams?
Perhaps a by request or custom program?

Fuel Moto is focusing on Bob Wood's cams, I do not yet have the specific list of what Dynojet has done

[FLTRI]

All we need now is someone to focus on the many Andrews cams and the plethora of others available on the market.
Bob

[1FSTRK]

All we need now is someone to focus on the many Andrews cams and the plethora of others available on the market.
Bob

Or better yet extend the access to the most qualified dyno shops and make use of their valuable resources and experience. This would cut in house time and expense as well as speed the entire process. Can you imagine the the speed of development if the computer people wrote the code and the actual motor experts took the lead in the design and testing. I took a tour of the DJ plant in Vegas once. I can't begin to guess how much they spend on test bikes, exhaust, and labor to just cover the combs they do test.

[TXChop]

Jamie..Incase i missed this info sorry..

Was the release date published? Or when are you selling them?
Does it have a live AFR display on any of the modes?
Can an ecm thats already been married to a tts still work?
How long will a tune take (roughly) on a simple build?
Any pics of the back of the unit? I was thinking of the Kuryakyn fuel door gps mount for a fairing'd bike?
Were the timing tables adjustable on the fly or from the monitor?
Any issues with different pipe designs from reading with the o2's only?

Thanks! Looking forward to trying this unit. Got 3 sets of cams i wanna try out but dont want to have to pay for a tune for each of them.

[Vosselman]

Can an ecm thats already been married to a tts still work?

Can you swap / change between power vision and another tuner (tts, spst, directlink or whatever) without losing the 'marriage' between the ecu and one of the devices? This can be done with the other devices. But with Power Vision?

[Jamie Long]

Jamie..Incase i missed this info sorry..

Was the release date published? Or when are you selling them?
Does it have a live AFR display on any of the modes?
Can an ecm thats already been married to a tts still work?
How long will a tune take (roughly) on a simple build?
Any pics of the back of the unit? I was thinking of the Kuryakyn fuel door gps mount for a fairing'd bike?
Were the timing tables adjustable on the fly or from the monitor?
Any issues with different pipe designs from reading with the o2's only?

Thanks! Looking forward to trying this unit. Got 3 sets of cams i wanna try out but dont want to have to pay for a tune for each of them.

We hope to start shipping Power Vision later this month, Auto Tune release will follow slighly later. If you have the Auto Tune module you will be able to display front and rear AFR in real time on the PV display. Power Vision will still work if you have a different brand of ECM flash tuner and these products will remain married to the ECM, with PV you can also capture and edit whichever calibration is the ECM regardless of which previous tuning platform was used. Your question on tuning time is pretty broad, this will depend greatly on the application as well as the skills and resources of the user doing the tuning. The main tables are adjusted in the calibration with the WinPV software, the main Spark tables for example cannot be adjusted on the PV screen or switched on the fly, you can however easily switch between alternate calibrations on the PV screen but you cannot send cals while the bike is running. Any O2 sensor/pipe problems from incorrect O2 location/position should be corrected if required regardless of which product you are using. Here is a picture of the back of the PV unit, it will work with a wide range of GPS mounts

[Jeffd]

Jamie have you checked your pms?

[Jamie Long]

Can an ecm thats already been married to a tts still work?

Can you swap / change between power vision and another tuner (tts, spst, directlink or whatever) without losing the 'marriage' between the ecu and one of the devices? This can be done with the other devices. But with Power Vision?

Yes, you can switch between tuning platforms and they will remain married to the ECM. The big advantage with Power Vision in this regard is that with PV you can capture, view, and edit the calibration from the ECM. Say for example you have a SEPST cal for a 117" build you have been fine tuning and want to change to the Power Vision product, instead of starting over developing your cal you can simply capture it right from the ECM. WinPV converts it to a .pvm file and you can keep right on tuning where you left off

[Heatwave3]

Jamie..Incase i missed this info sorry..

Was the release date published? Or when are you selling them?
Does it have a live AFR display on any of the modes?
Can an ecm thats already been married to a tts still work?
How long will a tune take (roughly) on a simple build?
Any pics of the back of the unit? I was thinking of the Kuryakyn fuel door gps mount for a fairing'd bike?
Were the timing tables adjustable on the fly or from the monitor?
Any issues with different pipe designs from reading with the o2's only?

Thanks! Looking forward to trying this unit. Got 3 sets of cams i wanna try out but dont want to have to pay for a tune for each of them.

We hope to start shipping Power Vision later this month, Auto Tune release will follow slighly later. If you have the Auto Tune module you will be able to display front and rear AFR in real time on the PV display. Power Vision will still work if you have a different brand of ECM flash tuner and these products will remain married to the ECM, with PV you can also capture and edit whichever calibration is the ECM regardless of which previous tuning platform was used. Your question on tuning time is pretty broad, this will depend greatly on the application as well as the skills and resources of the user doing the tuning. The main tables are adjusted in the calibration with the WinPV software, the main Spark tables for example cannot be adjusted on the PV screen or switched on the fly, you can however easily switch between alternate calibrations on the PV screen but you cannot send cals while the bike is running. Any O2 sensor/pipe problems from incorrect O2 location/position should be corrected if required regardless of which product you are using. Here is a picture of the back of the PV unit, it will work with a wide range of GPS mounts

Jamie, I understand that the PV can show live AFRs when running with the AT module and WB O2 sensors. Can the PV show AFRs for the closed loop operational area of the map when operating with the stock NB O2 sensors?

[Jamie Long]

Jamie, I understand that the PV can show live AFRs when running with the AT module and WB O2 sensors. Can the PV show AFRs for the closed loop operational area of the map when operating with the stock NB O2 sensors?

The factory NB O2 sensors simply provide a voltage output when they switch from rich/lean at Stoich, when using the stock sensors with Power Vision you can display F/R O2 Voltage, F/R Closed Loop Integrator, F/R Adaptive Fuel Factor (AFV), 02 rich/lean

[TXChop]

BUMP..Curious on the release date? Cant wait to hear some end user feed back.

[Jamie Long]

BUMP..Curious on the release date? Cant wait to hear some end user feed back.

Units are currently being serialized, packaged, etc.. and they are finishing up several odds and ends as well. The holiday season put a little damper on logistics however we expect to start shipping the week of January 10th. 

[Jamie Long]

I posted the Quick Start Guide below and will post the full User Manual and Software when available. If anyone has any additional questions just let me know

Download the Power Vision Quick Start Guide here  http://www.fuelmotousa.com/downloads/PVQuickStart.pdf

[TXChop]

Thanks Jamie.!! 

[Jamie Long]

The Dynojet Power Vision website is now live at www.dynojetpowervision.com

[burgies08ultra]

looks like a cool setup
burgie

[1FSTRK]

The software at the engineering level contains a wide range of switches and definitions, and much of it is raw code. When I am developing a calibration in-house Dynojet supplies me with a starting point for a specific combination and I am off to the dyno, I am using very similar software to what will be provided at the consumer level

Will they/you be developing base cals for other brands of cams?
Perhaps a by request or custom program?

Fuel Moto is focusing on Bob Wood's cams, I do not yet have the specific list of what Dynojet has done

Can you tell me which wood cams you are basemaping. I won't buy another system that tells me that it requires basemaps that match my build then just because they won't put the time into their own product to build basemaps tells me that picking some other cam is close enough.

[Jamie Long]

The software at the engineering level contains a wide range of switches and definitions, and much of it is raw code. When I am developing a calibration in-house Dynojet supplies me with a starting point for a specific combination and I am off to the dyno, I am using very similar software to what will be provided at the consumer level

Will they/you be developing base cals for other brands of cams?
Perhaps a by request or custom program?

Fuel Moto is focusing on Bob Wood's cams, I do not yet have the specific list of what Dynojet has done

Can you tell me which wood cams you are basemaping. I won't buy another system that tells me that it requires basemaps that match my build then just because they won't put the time into their own product to build basemaps tells me that picking some other cam is close enough.

We currently have 2010/2011 Touring 96", 103", and 107" calibrations with the Wood TW-555 cams

[1FSTRK]

The software at the engineering level contains a wide range of switches and definitions, and much of it is raw code. When I am developing a calibration in-house Dynojet supplies me with a starting point for a specific combination and I am off to the dyno, I am using very similar software to what will be provided at the consumer level

Will they/you be developing base cals for other brands of cams?
Perhaps a by request or custom program?

Fuel Moto is focusing on Bob Wood's cams, I do not yet have the specific list of what Dynojet has done

Can you tell me which wood cams you are basemaping. I won't buy another system that tells me that it requires basemaps that match my build then just because they won't put the time into their own product to build basemaps tells me that picking some other cam is close enough.

We currently have 2010/2011 Touring 96", 103", and 107" calibrations with the Wood TW-555 cams

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are working more on canned tune maps than base cals for different cams.
As a tuning tool doesn’t the power vision allow the end user to make adjustments for the different motor sizes? The one thing all these flash tuners have in common is the lack of base cals for the different cams we all use. Can you give us a list of the cams that PV will be providing base cals for and some estimated time schedule for their release? You said wood "cams" what other wood cams are you releasing base cals for?
Thanks

[Jamie Long]

Yes you can change the displacement constant in WinPV. Cam wise, Fuel Moto has done calibrations for the Wood TW-555 and we are working with some SE cams at the moment, we will primarily support Wood's cams however as more combinations are tested our database will grow. Dynojet is developing calibrations for several different cams as well, I cannot speak for what they will have available initially. It is their focus to have a large assortment of cals available, however as this is a new product it may take some time. 

[brunothedog]

Any plans on having more than 3 maps for the revolution motor?
some of us do do strokers and cams

[1FSTRK]

Yes you can change the displacement constant in WinPV. Cam wise, Fuel Moto has done calibrations for the Wood TW-555 and we are working with some SE cams at the moment, we will primarily support Wood's cams however as more combinations are tested our database will grow. Dynojet is developing calibrations for several different cams as well, I cannot speak for what they will have available initially. It is their focus to have a large assortment of cals available, however as this is a new product it may take some time.

Is this to imply you will have base cals for all wood cams?
If not, which one is next?
What is the short list?
Can I request one?

[hotroadking]

When do you plan on getting to SNS cams, and Andrews, I know it takes some time to
get on the dyno, swap parts etc

[Jamie Long]

It is impossible to cover all applications, as FM only has so much in terms of resources and bikes and we are doing this to support FM and Power Vision. We are first working to make sure we have the most popular combinations we work with ready to go. As noted earlier, FM supports Bob Woods and we will likely test some other cams than the TW-555, however I do not have anything specifically. I do not see FM developing cals for the 120 in house anytime soon, I do not have specific info on everything Dynojet is working on.

[Heatwave3]

It is impossible to cover all applications, as FM only has so much in terms of resources and bikes and we are doing this to support FM and Power Vision. We are first working to make sure we have the most popular combinations we work with ready to go. As noted earlier, FM supports Bob Woods and we will likely test some other cams than the TW-555, however I do not have anything specifically. I do not see FM developing cals for the 120 in house anytime soon, I do not have specific info on everything Dynojet is working on.

Are there plans to develop base cals for 110" motors? Will the product include the cost of the basic auto-tune feature or with this software be an additional price? Any target for the Basic Auto-tune software release?

[Jamie Long]

Are there plans to develop base cals for 110" motors? Will the product include the cost of the basic auto-tune feature or with this software be an additional price? Any target for the Basic Auto-tune software release?

Yes there are Power Vision calibrations available for 110" models, FM has done two cals for the 2010-2011 CVO Touring we have a cal with the Wood's TW-7H cams, Jackpot 2/1/2 and Jackpot mufflers, and a cal with the same exhaust and the stock SE255 cams. I do not have a a specific layout on what Dynojet has scheduled for bikes or the timeline. Right now for FM it is a matter of logistics in terms of building cals around customer work and other R&D we are involved in, getting bikes in place, and having the parts and resources available when we need them. The PV includes all software upgrades which are free. I do not yet have a specific date on the AT Basic app

[Heatwave3]

Are there plans to develop base cals for 110" motors? Will the product include the cost of the basic auto-tune feature or with this software be an additional price? Any target for the Basic Auto-tune software release?

Yes there are Power Vision calibrations available for 110" models, FM has done two cals for the 2010-2011 CVO Touring we have a cal with the Wood's TW-7H cams, Jackpot 2/1/2 and Jackpot mufflers, and a cal with the same exhaust and the stock SE255 cams. I do not have a a specific layout on what Dynojet has scheduled for bikes or the timeline. Right now for FM it is a matter of logistics in terms of building cals around customer work and other R&D we are involved in, getting bikes in place, and having the parts and resources available when we need them. The PV includes all software upgrades which are free. I do not yet have a specific date on the AT Basic app

Jamie, thanks for the quick follow-up. Do you have any plans to do more 110's in the near future? In particular, a 110' with hi-flo heads, hi-lift cam, 58mm TB and 2:1 exhaust? I would think this would be a common configuration for anyone looking to build a higher performance 110".

[Jamie Long]

Are there plans to develop base cals for 110" motors? Will the product include the cost of the basic auto-tune feature or with this software be an additional price? Any target for the Basic Auto-tune software release?

Yes there are Power Vision calibrations available for 110" models, FM has done two cals for the 2010-2011 CVO Touring we have a cal with the Wood's TW-7H cams, Jackpot 2/1/2 and Jackpot mufflers, and a cal with the same exhaust and the stock SE255 cams. I do not have a a specific layout on what Dynojet has scheduled for bikes or the timeline. Right now for FM it is a matter of logistics in terms of building cals around customer work and other R&D we are involved in, getting bikes in place, and having the parts and resources available when we need them. The PV includes all software upgrades which are free. I do not yet have a specific date on the AT Basic app

Jamie, thanks for the quick follow-up. Do you have any plans to do more 110's in the near future? In particular, a 110' with hi-flo heads, hi-lift cam, 58mm TB and 2:1 exhaust? I would think this would be a common configuration for anyone looking to build a higher performance 110".

I do not have anything currently in the works, but it should only be a matter of time

[hogsty]

Jamie, sorry if these questions have been asked before.

Will the Auto-tune feature have the ability to auto-tune timing? I know that may be too much to ask, but I wonder.  If it's not in the auto-tune, is it one of the things that can be changed on the fly?

Is the Auto-tune Pro part of it married to the VIN number as well?  In other words do I need an Auto-tune Pro for each bike I tune? I own 4 bikes and it would cost me another $1500.

Is the screen compatible with VESA mounts?

[Jamie Long]

Jamie, sorry if these questions have been asked before.

Will the Auto-tune feature have the ability to auto-tune timing? I know that may be too much to ask, but I wonder.  If it's not in the auto-tune, is it one of the things that can be changed on the fly?

Is the Auto-tune Pro part of it married to the VIN number as well?  In other words do I need an Auto-tune Pro for each bike I tune? I own 4 bikes and it would cost me another $1500.

Is the screen compatible with VESA mounts?

The Auto Tune feature will populate VE values only. Changes to the calibration cannot be made on the fly, however you can easily change cals and also make adjustments to some tables right on the PV display but the bike cannot be running when you reflash. Auto Tune Pro uses the optional AT-100 which does not marry to the bike and can be used to tune multiple bikes. The PV display has AMPS 4 hole mounting and works with a wide range of mounting options. Below are the physical specs on the unit

[FLTRI]

Auto Tune Pro uses the optional AT-100 which does not marry to the bike and can be used to tune multiple bikes.

Jamie,
Does the AT100 make changes to the base calibration VE values? Or does it use the base calibration VE and modify the injector duty cycle?
Are you saying if a tuner puchases the AT100 and the customer purchases the Vision, the tuner can use the AT100 to tune one bike, remove it (open loop but precisely tuned) and move on to the next bike?
Thanks,
Bob

[hogsty]

How much data can it log?  30 minutes, an hour, etc.

[Jamie Long]

Jamie,
Does the AT100 make changes to the base calibration VE values? Or does it use the base calibration VE and modify the injector duty cycle?
Are you saying if a tuner puchases the AT100 and the customer purchases the Vision, the tuner can use the AT100 to tune one bike, remove it (open loop but precisely tuned) and move on to the next bike?
Thanks,
Bob

Auto Tune Pro is a tuning application within Power Vision, the Dynojet AT-100 w/dual Bosch wideband sensors is simply the hardware Power Vision uses for logging AFR data. When you run Auto Tune Pro the PV logs AFR data from the widebands along with data from various ECM channels, with this info the AT Pro application is then able to populate a corrected VE table which can be reflashed to the ECM from the PV display. You can remove the AT-100 once your tune is developed or you can leave it installed and montor front/rear AFR in real time on the display, you can also use a single AT-100 to tune as many bikes you like. Also note once tuned you can also reinstall the factory nbO2 sensors to allow normal closed operation.

[Heatwave3]

Jamie,
Does the AT100 make changes to the base calibration VE values? Or does it use the base calibration VE and modify the injector duty cycle?
Are you saying if a tuner puchases the AT100 and the customer purchases the Vision, the tuner can use the AT100 to tune one bike, remove it (open loop but precisely tuned) and move on to the next bike?
Thanks,
Bob

Auto Tune Pro is a tuning application within Power Vision, the Dynojet AT-100 w/dual Bosch wideband sensors is simply the hardware Power Vision uses for logging AFR data. When you run Auto Tune Pro the PV logs AFR data from the widebands along with data from various ECM channels, with this info the AT Pro application is then able to populate a corrected VE table which can be reflashed to the ECM from the PV display. You can remove the AT-100 once your tune is developed or you can leave it installed and montor front/rear AFR in real time on the display, you can also use a single AT-100 to tune as many bikes you like. Also note once tuned you can also reinstall the factory nbO2 sensors to allow normal closed operation.

Interesting...is there screw in bung adapter that would enable temporary use of the larger O2 sensors for tuning that could then be removed in order to reinstall the smaller stock sensors that come on a 2010 Touring bike. I could see using AT-100 to tune the open loop portion of a map and after it was tuned, unplug the piggy-back AT-100 and returning to the stock sensors. In my case, I have the smaller sensors so I'm wondering if a temporary bung adapter would meet the need temporarily?

[Jamie Long]

How much data can it log?  30 minutes, an hour, etc.

Power Vision has 2GB of memory, to put this into perspective this would allow for approx 30-35 hours of data while logging all available channels

[FLTRI]

Auto Tune Pro is a tuning application within Power Vision, the Dynojet AT-100 w/dual Bosch wideband sensors is simply the hardware Power Vision uses for logging AFR data. When you run Auto Tune Pro the PV logs AFR data from the widebands along with data from various ECM channels, with this info the AT Pro application is then able to populate a corrected VE table which can be reflashed to the ECM from the PV display. You can remove the AT-100 once your tune is developed or you can leave it installed and monitor front/rear AFR in real time on the display, you can also use a single AT-100 to tune as many bikes you like. Also note once tuned you can also reinstall the factory nbO2 sensors to allow normal closed operation.

This sounds like a really valuable tool for tuners, especially ones with limited experience:
Simply install the AT100 to the Vision system, let the system auto-tune on the dyno to target AFRs, tune timing, remove AT100 from bike, reinstall OEM O2 sensors and the system reads the nbO2s and adjusts/compensates just like the OEM system???

Can't wait to see it action...@ the v-twin expo ya think?
Thanks,
Bob

[Jamie Long]

Jamie,
Does the AT100 make changes to the base calibration VE values? Or does it use the base calibration VE and modify the injector duty cycle?
Are you saying if a tuner puchases the AT100 and the customer purchases the Vision, the tuner can use the AT100 to tune one bike, remove it (open loop but precisely tuned) and move on to the next bike?
Thanks,
Bob

Auto Tune Pro is a tuning application within Power Vision, the Dynojet AT-100 w/dual Bosch wideband sensors is simply the hardware Power Vision uses for logging AFR data. When you run Auto Tune Pro the PV logs AFR data from the widebands along with data from various ECM channels, with this info the AT Pro application is then able to populate a corrected VE table which can be reflashed to the ECM from the PV display. You can remove the AT-100 once your tune is developed or you can leave it installed and montor front/rear AFR in real time on the display, you can also use a single AT-100 to tune as many bikes you like. Also note once tuned you can also reinstall the factory nbO2 sensors to allow normal closed operation.

Interesting...is there screw in bung adapter that would enable temporary use of the larger O2 sensors for tuning that could then be removed in order to reinstall the smaller stock sensors that come on a 2010 Touring bike. I could see using AT-100 to tune the open loop portion of a map and after it was tuned, unplug the piggy-back AT-100 and returning to the stock sensors. In my case, I have the smaller sensors so I'm wondering if a temporary bung adapter would meet the need temporarily?

Unfortunately, there is not a way to adapt the 18mm sensors into the 12mm bungs

[Jamie Long]

Simply install the AT100 to the Vision system, let the system auto-tune on the dyno to target AFRs, tune timing, remove AT100 from bike, reinstall OEM O2 sensors and the system reads the nbO2s and adjusts/compensates just like the OEM system???

Can't wait to see it action...@ the v-twin expo ya think?
Thanks,
Bob

There are also some pretty awesome dyno specific tuning applications on the way as well

Power Vision will very much be a part of the V Twin Expo, I will be there all weekend and will be in and out of Dynojet and Bob Wood's booths. Make sure you look me up, I would be happy to go over everything at the show with you or anyone else interested first hand

[FLTRI]

Thanks Jamie,
I'll be sure to look you up.
Bob

[FLTRI]

Jamie,
Looking at the Power Vision website it appears 2 AT100s are needed for both cylinders. Is this true? Or will 1 At100 tune both cylinders?
Bob

[FLTRI]

Jamie:
Noticed this on your website:
"11/8/2010  The future of tuning is here, Dynojet Power Vision has been launched for 2001-2011 Harley Davidson models!"
and:
"Power Vision will start shipping in December."

Just got off the phone with Dynojet checking on an order. Asked if I could meet with them at Cinci and be shown the PV w/autotune.
I was told they hope to have the base PV system ready for release by the V-twin show but no estimated release date as of today for the auto-tune feature (PRO?).

Bob

[hrdtail78]

Jamie,

Can you control the percent of close loop base calibration's adjustment with the Vision like with the PCV? 

[Jamie Long]

Jamie,
Looking at the Power Vision website it appears 2 AT100s are needed for both cylinders. Is this true? Or will 1 At100 tune both cylinders?
Bob

AT-100 is a dual channel wideband controller, you only need one of them

Jamie:
Noticed this on your website:
"11/8/2010  The future of tuning is here, Dynojet Power Vision has been launched for 2001-2011 Harley Davidson models!"
and:
"Power Vision will start shipping in December."

Just got off the phone with Dynojet checking on an order. Asked if I could meet with them at Cinci and be shown the PV w/autotune.
I was told they hope to have the base PV system ready for release by the V-twin show but no estimated release date as of today for the auto-tune feature (PRO?).

Bob

Fuel Moto will be distributing the first batch of Power Vision units, we will have them next week and will start shipping orders at that time. The AT Basic and Pro will be released slighly later   

[Jamie Long]

Jamie,

Can you control the percent of close loop base calibration's adjustment with the Vision like with the PCV?

If you are referring to the closed loop's window of adjustment with the factory nbO2 sensors, this is not currently exposed with PV

[Heatwave3]

Jamie,

Can you control the percent of close loop base calibration's adjustment with the Vision like with the PCV?

If you are referring to the closed loop's window of adjustment with the factory nbO2 sensors, this is not currently exposed with PV

Is the AT Basic software included in the price ($500) of the PowerVision unit (even though it's not included at launch)? Or will this additional tuning software be an extra charge? It's included in the TTS software and was included in the 2010 version of the SEPST tuning software.

[Jamie Long]

Jamie,

Can you control the percent of close loop base calibration's adjustment with the Vision like with the PCV?

If you are referring to the closed loop's window of adjustment with the factory nbO2 sensors, this is not currently exposed with PV

Is the AT Basic software included in the price ($500) of the PowerVision unit (even though it's not included at launch)? Or will this additional tuning software be an extra charge? It's included in the TTS software and was included in the 2010 version of the SEPST tuning software.

All software and firmware upgrades are free and are performed thru the update client, you can also download Dynojet's latest calibration database as well

[hrdtail78]

Jamie,

Can you control the percent of close loop base calibration's adjustment with the Vision like with the PCV?

If you are referring to the closed loop's window of adjustment with the factory nbO2 sensors, this is not currently exposed with PV

Thanks Jamie.  Thats what I was asking.  I am looking forward to seeing anything on this at the show.  I know you have been working on calibrations for aftermarket cams.  Has dynojet allowed you access to change base cam timing, and the other timing events like MAP reading and injector timing?

[Jamie Long]

Jamie,

Can you control the percent of close loop base calibration's adjustment with the Vision like with the PCV?

If you are referring to the closed loop's window of adjustment with the factory nbO2 sensors, this is not currently exposed with PV

Thanks Jamie.  Thats what I was asking.  I am looking forward to seeing anything on this at the show.  I know you have been working on calibrations for aftermarket cams.  Has dynojet allowed you access to change base cam timing, and the other timing events like MAP reading and injector timing?

On this subject I am limited as to what I can post on a public forum as it is Dynojet's product. You are welcome to come and talk to me at the V-Twin Expo or give me a call.

[TXChop]

Jamie, will this work with my quick shifter?

[lonewolf]

Jamie, will this work with my quick shifter?

Hey Dan, did you get the bugs worked out? How do you like it?

[TXChop]

Love it when it works. Just a little embarrassing when it kills the motor going into second or 3rd.
I updated the firmware on my pc3 and it made it better, but i am still at a 1 or 2 tries out of 10 stalling. Sucks as i have to cycle the ign switch when this happens to fire again. I borrowed a brand new pc3 and it worked perfect for a week, but ihad to install on customers bike. Gonna try a new one(pc3) this summer unless is switch to a pingel. We'll see..Shoulda just got the pingel first as i really wanted that one.

[Buglet]

   Is anyone using the power vision good or bad.

[iclick]

   Is anyone using the power vision good or bad.

Good.  Check out this thread.

[hrdtail78]

That's a nice write up on it.  Wonder when the AT will be out for it?  I also wonder how they address cam timing. Just converting PC maps?  That's not what I understood.