Break in secrets

[hogsty]

I picked up my new bike yesterday, a CVO Ultra.  I found this website called mototune that claims to have a method of breaking in a new motor that results in more power for the life of the motor.  The web page is here:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I'm looking for opinions from all you on whther or not this is a good idea or not.   I question the wisdom of following his procedure because he only presents opinion and anecdotal evidence, no real hard facts.  So what do you think?  Is it fact or fraud?

[Bladesmith]

 

http://www.hdtalking.com/harley_davidson_engine_related_issues/953-engine_break_in_for_new_motors.html

Here we go again...

[Bakon]

This comes up every so often.

I wouldn't do it that way. I go gentle to progressively harder, higher rpm as the miles rack up. I change oil at 50,250,500 with dino. Mobil 1 15w50 (when you could still find it in 5qt bottles at WalMart) at 1000. I have taken my motors apart to have them bored, set quench, change heads or cams after 5k, 10k, 20k miles on several bikes. None have burned oil and everything inside was good, cross hatch still visable.

But I will sit back and watch while others tell you it's good.

[Horizonmech]

The Moto Tune thing has been around for sometime around here and the discussion always ends up like an oil thread, my feelings are the end result is more a result of prep, assembly procedure and attention to detail than the hard brakein or the heat cycle method........There are legit arguments for both methods..........I tend to heat cycle a few times and ride normal after just a few miles.....

[kik]

Ok here's my problem...I pulled this parts off their websit.

The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!

If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.

So what this guy is saying is that because I didn't run the crap out of my motor when I got it, I now need to tear it down and start over because the rings aren't sealing? BS!!! I'm sorry but I can't beleive this.

[sandrooney]

Do what the owners manual says and you will be fine.
SR

[Sonny S.]

It's already broke in...just ride it.

[Scurvy]

It's already broke in...just ride it.

I agree. factory motor vs. aftermarket, apples to oranges.

[Princess Butt]

You have to be careful of some of these sites. A lot of them dispense "free advice", and they also offer rebuild services to fix that horrible motor that lasted only 25,000 miles even though it was broken in "right".

[Evo160K]

The last two engines I broke in were done using the instructions of Ron Dickey of Axtell Sales, basically heat cycling.  I've been very pleased.  You can get the exact details by getting in touch with them at    http://www.axtellsales.com/   Phone 515-243-2518 tech support.  It's a proven method.  I also used the Mototune method once, can't say anything negative about it, the engine ran well.

[panheaddreamer58]

looks like most of the motor are water cooled- dont know if that matters or not 
jim

[Sonny S.]

IIRC when I was at the factory in York last they were saying that they take the CVO bikes up to 5k rpms on the break in dyno before they leave the factory.
Do an oil and filter change within a few 100 miles, then at every 5K on the clock....keeps the math easy 

[hogsty]

Personally I think the mototune method is BS.  He's got no evidence other than pictures of a couple of pistons that may or may not have been subjected to his preferred break-in, no engineering degrees, and no experience in a manufacturing environment.  Maybe he's just trying to make himself more important than he really is.

[Ridetard]

I picked up my new bike yesterday, a CVO Ultra.  I found this website called mototune that claims to have a method of breaking in a new motor that results in more power for the life of the motor.  The web page is here:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I'm looking for opinions from all you on whther or not this is a good idea or not.   I question the wisdom of following his procedure because he only presents opinion and anecdotal evidence, no real hard facts.  So what do you think?  Is it fact or fraud?

I broke in my last build with the mototune method.   Best running engine ever. After 9000 miles, the compression is exactly the same in both cylinders (180/180), never saw that before.   Doesn't comsume a drop oil either even during the hottest summer in history.    Of course the best "quick" brake in method is done everyday on a dyno.  It's all about seating the rings properly.

It's fact.

[webhntn]

Years ago I had a friend that built race engines for cars.  The first thing that he would do (on an engine dyno)  after starting the engine for the first time was to run it up to 2500 - 3000 RPM and hold it there to warm it up before doing redline runs. His opinion from experience was that running a new engine at low RPM initially was VERY bad for the longevity and performance of the engine.
Personally, I don't have the patience to lay off the throttle for the break-in period. Just get on and ride.

[Big Dan]

webhntn,
What your friend was most likely doing was breaking in the cam/lifters. I did the same kind of work in the early to mid 80's, and back then the practice was to start it and run it at no less than 2500rpm, but not more than 3000 or 3500 for 20 minutes. During that 20 minutes you'd also not hold steady rpm for more than a few seconds at a time; you'd vary it up and down within those parameters. I have no idea if that practice holds true today.

As far as bikes go, I broke mine in by doing the heat cycles S&S recommends, then I tried to go easy for the first few hundred miles. I did pretty good, but I just had to run her up through the gears a time or two. I just couldn't help myself. The top -end has been together for about 70k so far and hasn't exploded yet, so I reckon it's alright.

[Sonny S.]

>>What your friend was most likely doing was breaking in the cam/lifters.<<

Flat tappets 

[RK101]

 I'm not a Motorcycle wrench but when I got my 04 RK I changed the oil and filters in all three holes and at 100,500,and 1000 miles. At that time I switched to Syn oil. I just rode my bike the way I ride it from mile one. Didn't beat it ,didn't baby it. Never had a problem in 56 k. IMO the 100 mile oil and filter change is a must. All three holes might have been over kill but for the amount of money we're talking about it gives you a little extra piece of mind.

[autoworker]

I'm inclined to follow the HD owners manual or S&S instructions on break in.

[Bakon]

I'm not a Motorcycle wrench but when I got my 04 RK I changed the oil and filters in all three holes and at 100,500,and 1000 miles. At that time I switched to Syn oil. I just rode my bike the way I ride it from mile one. Didn't beat it ,didn't baby it. Never had a problem in 56 k. IMO the 100 mile oil and filter change is a must. All three holes might have been over kill but for the amount of money we're talking about it gives you a little extra piece of mind.

[hrdtail78]

I have followed his breakin on the street and dyno with great luck.  Not saying I'm right and your wrong.  Just saying I have had good luck with hard break in.

[Horizonmech]

I was an auto mech for 20+ years and I remember a clinic my shop attended in the late 80's put on by sealed power, of course they were hocking their own parts but the info was invaluable. At the eng parts class the first order of business we were instructed to do was "forget what you used to think"."metallurgy has come so far that rings are seated in the first 10 min of operation, even before warm up has occurred"..........I recall GM having a rash of engs with crankcase pressure issues, their initial "fix" was to take the vehicle to the freeway and do a series of run up's to 60 mph and compression brake the eng in L gear.....The theory was the compression braking would put extra pressure behind the rings and force them to seat against the cyl walls, believe it or not I saw it work in several instances.......

[hogsty]

I'm not a Motorcycle wrench but when I got my 04 RK I changed the oil and filters in all three holes and at 100,500,and 1000 miles. At that time I switched to Syn oil. I just rode my bike the way I ride it from mile one. Didn't beat it ,didn't baby it. Never had a problem in 56 k. IMO the 100 mile oil and filter change is a must. All three holes might have been over kill but for the amount of money we're talking about it gives you a little extra piece of mind.

How did you ride it the first 100 miles?  Did you happen to screen the oil or cut the filter open?  Just curious how much suspended or filtered material you would find after only 100 miles that would make you call a change at that point a must.   

I recall GM having a rash of engs with crankcase pressure issues, their initial "fix" was to take the vehicle to the freeway and do a series of run up's to 60 mph and compression brake the eng in L gear.....The theory was the compression braking would put extra pressure behind the rings and force them to seat against the cyl walls, believe it or not I saw it work in several instances.

I don't doubt your results at all.  Of course, the cranks in those cars weren't prone to shifting on hard decel like ours are.     

[calgary56]

hogsty: THAT is the method I used to break in my engine. I run Mobiil 1 15W-50.

It may not be the only method to break in an engine, but NO ONE will convince me it is bad for your engine, as mine lasted just over 245, 000 Kilometers (152,000 miles) of hard riding, and the ONLY reason it needed a rebuild, was because a bolt broke in the cam chest, which cannot be attributed to the 'break-in' method.

[hombre912]

My doctors tell me one thing about my condition, my barber tell me otherwise.  Who am I supposed to believe?
The harley engineers say one thing, MotoMan says another.  Who am I supposed to believe?

[harleyjt]

My doctors tell me one thing about my condition, my barber tell me otherwise.  Who am I supposed to believe?
The harley engineers say one thing, MotoMan says another.  Who am I supposed to believe?

Good analogy.
jt

[Ken R]

What are his credentials? 

Where did he get his education and training?

Has he been published (self published on the web doesn't count) 

He's showing 14 pistons.  That's not many motors.  Are we to simply believe what he says regarding those pistons?

He claims 300 motorcycles?  HD does that many in a day.

Looks like he gets a lot of ad income from his site.   

I'm sticking with the factory-recommended break-in. 

[RandR]

Mmmmm........ The Motor Company, BIG, Been around awhile, responsible for the warranty on 100,000's of engines. Read and follow your owners manual. At least. When you build a hot rod, follow the guy that built it. Your Internet guy has 0 responsibility to anyone! Bob.

[harleytoprock]

Motoman claims that if the hone peaks are worn off, you loose the window of opportunity for the rings to seat in. Well, what wore off the hone peaks? The rings! So if the rings wore off the peaks , they must be seated in as well. Therefore the ring irregularities have worn off also. But rings aren't the only thing that are being broken in. Shafts, bearings bushings etc are all being polished in with each other. The biggest enemy of a break-in is heat. I think every one has their own recipe for break-in.  But in the end, unless they are over heated, the end result is all the same.

[Ridetard]

What you all are missing is a NEW engine is ran for 15 minutes under controlled load at the factory before installation.   I would assume this is when the rings are seated. 

So to build your engine and putt around for a thousand miles would be a waste of time without performing the initial heat cycling.   

A new set of rings will never seat properly unless you heat cycle initially..

[RK101]

I'm not a Motorcycle wrench but when I got my 04 RK I changed the oil and filters in all three holes and at 100,500,and 1000 miles. At that time I switched to Syn oil. I just rode my bike the way I ride it from mile one. Didn't beat it ,didn't baby it. Never had a problem in 56 k. IMO the 100 mile oil and filter change is a must. All three holes might have been over kill but for the amount of money we're talking about it gives you a little extra piece of mind.

How did you ride it the first 100 miles?  Did you happen to screen the oil or cut the filter open?  Just curious how much suspended or filtered material you would find after only 100 miles that would make you call a change at that point a must.   

Like I said I just rode it as I always do. Mostly short trips under a 100 miles for the first 1000 miles
No I did not cut open the filter but I did find a lot of junk on the drain plugs and in the bottom of the drain pan. Like I said I believe it's a must. I'm sure others may disagree,but I'm not one bit sorry I drained the oil in all three holes at 100 & 500 miles. If I was to buy a new bike I'd do it all over again. I'm not a wrench but it worked for me and I'm sure it did more good than it did harm. 

[skeets]

Hell dont worry about it just freekin ride,,, if its going to be fast it will be if its going to be a dog it will be,, sorry but thats the way it is,, RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT

[Skullfork]

I tried that break in procedure when I bought my new '08 SG. At 5,000 miles I took the bike in to the dealer to have a big bore kit installed and this is what the pistons looked like when they opened it up. I've since traded that bike in on an Ultra Limited and took it easy this time on the break in ...just my experience.


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[moose]

it looks like a lot of carbon probably from the breathers into the intake.

I put mine to the ground (just don't call the EPA on me)