Heads Up for those who plan to ride the Blue Ridge Pkwy this Spring.

[EZGlider]

Kind of suprized me to find this article on the National Park Service Site regarding the BRP in my area.

Friday, Oct 31, 2008

On Sunday, October 19th, rangers from the Highlands District and Alleghany County Sheriff's Department deputies conducted a motorcycle checkpoint in the park. This was another in a series of educational and enforcement activities designed to reduce motor vehicle accidents on the Blue Ridge Parkway.  The checkpoint focused on providing a positive safety message, along with printed materials and "Enjoy the View, Watch the Road" key chains. Just over 100 motorcycles came through the checkpoint, which lasted for two-and-a-half hours. Some violations were detected, including seven license and registration infractions, one weapons violation, one arrest for felony level cocaine possession, and eleven motorcycle helmet safety violations. Outreach in the community was conducted prior to the operation and the majority of riders voiced support for it.  This operation built on the success of a similar USPP checkpoint conducted by District 2 Station in Washington. USPP Lt. Art Jacobsen provide valuable assistance in the planning of the operation. Ranger Bruce Gagnon was the operations section chief.

[MrClean]

About 20% of the riders checked had some sort of legal violation.  I wonder if that would be close to a national average? 

[Alien]

This is not the country I once new! Whatever happened to the constitution and the fourth ammendment? I just can't see how this (stopping all motorcycles(equal protection under the law?)) is legal. If I am driving/riding on a legal road not speeding I expect to be able to travel without being harassed because the mode of transportation I choose to use?

[tireater]

I'm with Alien...A people who give up their freedom for security....DESERVE NEITHER !

[Deye76]

Everyone who has a problem with being stopped should write the Allegheny County Chamber of Commerce and let them know that you, your family, and friends will neither visit, or spend money in that county, but the whole state as well. The education part is pure BS. It's nothing more than a revenue generating scheme. 

[96flhpi]

Gee, can I expect to be pulled over in my cage for a forced "educational activity with a focus on a positive safety message?"

[EZGlider]

I know the local guys and this is NOT typical of their attitudes.  They are usually pretty bike friendly, helpful and polite.  However the US Park Police are the ones behind this "safety exercise" and it is highly prejudiced against us.  As an ex LEO and resident of the area, there is NO statistical justification for singling out bikes here.  Searches of people because of wanting them safe is just plain bs and there is no problem in this area with concealed weapons violations, "gang" activity or drugs unique to bikers.  Just an excuse to "profile" a group LEAST LIKELY to be a problem IMHO.  AND I am ex LEO!

[Faast Ed]

Everyone who has a problem with being stopped should write the Allegheny County Chamber of Commerce and let them know that you, your family, and friends will neither visit, or spend money in that county, but the whole state as well. The education part is pure BS. It's nothing more than a revenue generating scheme. 

That would be rewarding them for their efforts.
They WANT bikes to not visit.

[Deye76]

I just sent a e-mail to the Chamber of Commerce, and plan on contacting the AMA. This sort of singling out specific groups and what appears to be illegal searches needs to be stopped. Tell the Chamber you plan on hurting them where it counts......the cash register.

[Fxstchewy]

Do you have a link? Thanks.

[quikbike]

I know the local guys and this is NOT typical of their attitudes.  They are usually pretty bike friendly, helpful and polite.  However the US Park Police are the ones behind this "safety exercise" and it is highly prejudiced against us.  As an ex LEO and resident of the area, there is NO statistical justification for singling out bikes here.  Searches of people because of wanting them safe is just plain bs and there is no problem in this area with concealed weapons violations, "gang" activity or drugs unique to bikers.  Just an excuse to "profile" a group LEAST LIKELY to be a problem IMHO.  AND I am ex LEO!

I agree totally with EZGlider....just BS

[EZGlider]

Everyone who has a problem with being stopped should write the Allegheny County Chamber of Commerce and let them know that you, your family, and friends will neither visit, or spend money in that county, but the whole state as well. The education part is pure BS. It's nothing more than a revenue generating scheme. 

That would be rewarding them for their efforts.
They WANT bikes to not visit.

Actually, Alleghany (note, not the same as allegheny which is Pittsburg, PA. AREA) county NC is very biker friendly.  Lots of riders who live here including a county council member with an EG.  Local DMV inspector rides an Ultra and had me sit on it and try the seat when I licensed in NC.  Local LEOs, both Sparta and County have been friendly and courteous and have absolutely nothing against bikers.  Very biker friendly county with very few violations written for harassment.  It is, IMHO, a US Park Police program they were drawb into.  USPP are NOT Park Rangers, rather they are the guys with the Uniforms designed like the SS, LOL.  When I served in DC, they were known as ............well, the local REAL city Police didn't have the greatest relations with them, to say the least.

Here is a link, just scroll down......................http://www.nationalparksgallery.com/parks/Blue-Ridge-Parkway

[shovelbill]

i believe that 'they' are 'picking' on bikers because there wont be a big enough voice to fight. mom and pop America will swollow these tactics hook, line and sinker since its only about big bad ol' bikers so far. after all, didnt you see 'sons of anarchy'?
what Constitution was that? oh, that. that dont apply to big bad noisy tattooed bikers...................wake the fu@k up! park police, border patrol, state police, sheriff dept, dec police, etc, ad nauseam. why dont we just call it a "police state"? Here, i'll go of topic for a bit but its just the same. i found this on the net but i believe its VERY pertinent to this discussion.

A Message from the Good people of America to the Peace Officers of America

Dear Peace Officer:

I have done nothing wrong. I do not intend to.

However, the government that you serve
has passed too many "laws"
that are "repugnant to the Constitution"
(Marbury v Madison, 1803, 5 US 137)
and are therefore "null and void of law".

I am sure to accidentally
break one of these "repugnant laws,"
some day.

The end result is that same government
is systematically destroying the Unalienable Rights
which our Constitution says shall not be infringed;
specifically, my Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

I can no longer stand idly by,
while decent people are systematically enslaved
by an out-of-control government.
I cannot allow a corrupt judiciary
to use its power to destroy my rights and my country.

That government and that judiciary
has begun to Use you
to arrest and kill people just like me
â€" people who believe that the Declaration of Independence,
the Constitution and the Bill of Rights
mean what they say.


You don't know me, but you see me every day.
I may be a businessman, a truck driver, an executive.
I could be a housewife or a salesman.

But I am armed, as Americans have been for over 250 years,
and I am determined to keep the freedoms
which only an armed people may retain.

I don't wear a uniform.
I don't drive a marked car. I don't wear camouflage.
I could be your own secretary, or your barber.
I might be the guy who delivers your
bottled water, or the parcel delivery lady.


I am tens of millions. I am America.
But I know you. I know your uniform,
your car, and your work schedule.

I know where you work, and where you live.

And that is good for you,
because not only am I No threat to you,
so long as you do the job for which you are hired,
I am also prepared to assist you
when you are threatened by real criminals.

There is an important difference between Moral laws,
and Bureaucratic laws, aka  Administrative laws.

The Good people of America
There aren't many of me left, you may think,
but believe me, there are many, many more than you can imagine.
When the chips are down,
we are the ones who are truly on your side.

On your side, that is,
so long as you honor your Oath.

We are on your side
if you are one of the majority of peace officers
who are not corrupt
and who have not sold out to the socialists
and communists
â€" freedom betrayers who will do anything,
say anything to destroy the America
our fathers and grandfathers bequeathed us.

No, I am No threat to you,
but your bosses in government don't see it that way.
They think that I, and my arms, are a threat to them,
and they are planning to send you for me,
just as they've sent armed, dangerous officers
on select little missions for years,
taking out targeted individuals.

On their orders,
you may succeed in murdering me for my beliefs.
Or you may not.

Whether or not you succeed in murdering me,
there will be others who
will rise up in my memory,
as I now rise up in honor of the innocent lives
taken by the jack-booted thugs
and black-masked officers
who think it is fun to murder Americans
â€" who have somehow become
convinced that it is their job to murder Americans!

I am prepared to die,
honoring my sacred Oath as an American,
to defend and protect the Constitution
of these united States of America.

Are you prepared to Obey the Oath you took?
Or will you Violate your Oath to the State and US Constitutions?

You see, our government is out of control.
It has rotted, from the top down.
You know it. You've seen it.

But you, like many others,
have been too concerned with your job, your family,
and your pension, to say or do anything about it.
Deep down, you know I am right.

But you think you must follow orders.
Or must you?

Please remember,
the many who claimed they were only "following orders"
at the Nuremberg Trials
and what happened to them
when Justice finally raised Her Sword
and exacted punishment for their lack of thinking.

And that is before the Almighty delivers His Eternal Justice.

Are you going to murder me
for having the courage to stand up
for the country and the principles in which you believe?

Are you going to go along
with unconscionably illegal, Unconstitutional orders,
just as "good" German soldiers followed their orders?

Are you going to be a peace officer or a jack-booted thug?

There is little difference between a street outlaw who murders and robs;
and a uniformed thug who murders and robs under color of law.
The result is the same.

Property confiscated, lives ruined, families ripped apart,
murder committed, and a free nation destroyed.

Look at history. Look around the world.
As we move toward a lawless society,
our country moves closer and closer to anarchy
and then some form of fascism.
Are you going to enforce Unconstitutional laws?

Are you going to be the private army of socio/fascist dictators
who masquerade as  representatives of We the people?

Or are you going to do your part to recapture America?

Are you going to keep your eyes and ears open?
Will you quietly let me know
when the jack-booted thugs
in the SWAT teams have targeted me?

Will you let your fellow officers know
that they are being sold down the river
by their corrupt masters?

Don't come to kill me.

If you don't succeed, and in the long run, you won't.

It doesn't have to be that way.
You can do something about it.
It's easy.
Read the Declaration of Independence,
the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Although you took an Oath to defend them,
you don't learn much about them in your training,
do you?

Today, these documents are considered dangerous by the government,
just as King George
found them dangerous over 200 years ago.
Why do you suppose your leaders
lead you to oppose the very rights you swore to protect?

Why do they want a disarmed public?

You know the reason.

It has nothing to do with controlling crime.
It has everything to do with Using you
to disarm, fine, control,
and ultimately murder your American fellows â€"
just like the brownshirts and the SS did to German citizens.

Don't fall for it.

The Good people of America
ask your Help.


Signed,
An American Patriot

[tireater]

A racist Mex/Amer cop, a lying tweaker combined to keep me from going to a toy run last year...Insted I sat in jail with $50k bail...
The D.A. insisted I plead to playing a stereo too loud...Even though she knew I did nothing wrong...I didn't even have a stereo....
The system is broken, drug dealers and addicts are everywhere...So the cops have time to run honest citizens through 'the system'...
Our popo are ineffectual at best...At worst lying criminals themselves...It's so bad...they gave it a word...Testilying...
They did manage to arrest the Harlem Globe Trotters here...And give them $50k each...The last time i called 911...NO ONE CAME !!!

[Sonny S.]

A MOTORCYCLE check point ? 

Isn't that like having an  SUV, PICK UP, or even car only check point ?
Sorta of profiling isn't it ?

This chit's getting old people. I thought the prejudice against biker was over when the yuppie's made owning a Harley a status symbol.
Looks like we're getting back to the......good ole' days ?

[Deye76]

Do you have a link? Thanks.

To contact the Allegheny County Chamber, the e-mail is

info@sparta-nc.com

[egstandard]

If I'm carrying coke on me, which I do not, the only way they can find that is with an illegal search. Unless they had a drug sniffing dog.

[shovelbill]

yes EG, but WHY would they have a drug dog at a 'safty' inspection?
very similar post to the one i started a while ago about NYC, same circus, different clowns.

[96flhpi]

EG - the point is the WHOLE THING IS ILLEGAL, search or not, at least according to the Constitution we used to go by.  If no laws are broken, or suspicion thereof (that's a lawyerly type word, no?), or no imminent danger, law enforcement has no right to detain me, even if it is to provide me "safety information."  I'm sure a lot of the LEO's that have to enforce these policies feel lousy about having to do it.

[someday69]

Tireeater...is right....I'll send a letter,....I never got to ride the blueridge,,,and I was so close for so many yrs....my own fault....even though I'd most likely be "safe" from the safety information scam,,,I know it's just another sign of our lost liberty......But who knows,,,,with enough people willing to fight for there rights...We may find freedom...someday..

[1JITSU1]

WAIT I feel bad for the kids

[Faast Ed]

Here's an idea:   

Have you papers in order and leave your dope at home (or hide it really really well).
If you ain't doin' anything wrong, all you lose is a few minutes of your time and you get to rest the iron butt while doing so.  LOL

I'm not siding with the LEO's, but I know not to fight a losing battle.  All the emails in the world won't change a thing!  Accept that and prepare accordingly.
Who knows, there might be safety checks in other areas too.

[egstandard]

Fast Ed. Please go back and read shovelbill's post. You can't sit idly by.

[Faast Ed]

Oh I understand better than you think.  I just can't see "beating the system" being even a remote possibility.
"The system" is just too large of an opponent.

[ModelABob]

I guess that old SS uniform I collected in Germany while in the army just might come in handy some day.
Just for kicks I would love to get a bunch of dudes together, dress up in Nazi uniforms with flags and everything.
Then go to one of these "safety" check points as a group.  With banners proclaiming that we totally support our LEO's
and all the good work they are doing for "our" country.......Sieg Heil a$$wipes.

Happy New Year & AMF/Ride Safe

[Alien]

Here's an idea:   

Have you papers in order and leave your dope at home (or hide it really really well).
If you ain't doin' anything wrong, all you lose is a few minutes of your time and you get to rest the iron butt while doing so.  LOL

I'm not siding with the LEO's, but I know not to fight a losing battle.  All the emails in the world won't change a thing!  Accept that and prepare accordingly.
Who knows, there might be safety checks in other areas too.

I really hate to read posts like this from people I generally respect!

I eat breakfast at a local diner and have this discussion about searches with many of the waitresses and customers and they all agree that they have nothing to hide let them search. If enough people roll over that right no longer exists! I am squeeky clean with no tickets/accidents in over 15 years and gun permits in 3 states and a federal collectors license. If I am stopped at one of these I will voice my displeasure with the violations of my rights. I will file a complaint. I will write editorials to local newspapers. I will contact the AMA. Imagine if our founding fathers had your attitude, we would still be british?

If we stick together and DO NOT roll over like sheep. If we fight these injustices and keep the pressure on our ELECTED officials we can stop or slow the erosion of our constitutional rights!

Whats acceptable, road blocks? Show your papers? Illegal wiretaps? Searches of your home? Where do we draw the line? This is NOT acceptable in the United States of America!

[egstandard]

Well said Alien.

[96flhpi]

I'm with Alien.  Unfortunately we've already accepted wire taps without warrants and torture (long as they ain't Americans) just recently - add those to the long list of things we let slide cause "I've got nothing to hide."

I know it's in bad taste, but do you really think the people of Germany said "hey, let's elect a genocidal megalomaniac" in the early 1930's.  No, they elected someone they trusted, who then over the years said "we have to do this, it's for the good of the country."

[Deye76]

Here's an idea:   

Have you papers in order and leave your dope at home (or hide it really really well).
If you ain't doin' anything wrong, all you lose is a few minutes of your time and you get to rest the iron butt while doing so.  LOL

I'm not siding with the LEO's, but I know not to fight a losing battle.  All the emails in the world won't change a thing!  Accept that and prepare accordingly.
Who knows, there might be safety checks in other areas too.

No dope, but you had a couple beers with lunch, at the checkpoint they smell it on you, .....have a nice ride from the local lockup.

The Brady bunch hopes the same attitude, (can't beat the system) prevails within the ranks of the NRA, and society as a whole.

[panz4ever]

I guess that old SS uniform I collected in Germany while in the army just might come in handy some day.
Just for kicks I would love to get a bunch of dudes together, dress up in Nazi uniforms with flags and everything.
Then go to one of these "safety" check points as a group.  With banners proclaiming that we totally support our LEO's
and all the good work they are doing for "our" country.......Sieg Heil a$$wipes.

Happy New Year & AMF/Ride Safe

My grandfather (a Jew) served in WWI; his son (my dad) served in WWI. Both are buried in the national cemetery in Colma, Ca with the Star of David atop the grave marker. I am a Viet Nam vet. I retired after 37 years as an LEO. Your statement is racist, offensive and in extremely poor taste.

[guido4198]

This is a huge load-o-crap.
We need a review session of our side-of-the-road rights from a good attorney. When stopped randomly...can you not answer questions, ask if you're under arrest...?? Can you ask what is their probable cause for stopping you and requiring you to show your "Papers"? If you're under arrest, you do have aright to know why,if not, can you request to be on your way, without showing your "Papers"..??
I'm not suggesting any attitude...just a simple VERY polite flexing of OUR rights. Do we actually have any left..??
Rights are like muscles...you gotta flex'em every now and then, or they go away.
Lookin' for information here...not trying to start an argument. This stuff is only gonna get worse...let's get educated, and prepared to "flex" the rights we have.

[Faast Ed]

If I am stopped at one of these I will voice my displeasure with the violations of my rights. I will file a complaint.

It's been my experience that "voicing my displeasure" gets me more tickets (or worse).  You can't beat these guys!

I mean no disrespect to anyone here. (I am on your side).

No dope, but you had a couple beers with lunch, at the checkpoint they smell it on you, .....have a nice ride from the local lockup.

Excellent point and I could easily fall victim to that one!

[Faast Ed]

Keep in mind:  It's your word against the cops word.

Who will the judge believe?

You flex your rights, and he can 'say' that you did more than flex your rights. The judge will side with the cop. Every time!
A simple "yes sir/no sir" will likely let your vacation last longer, and possibly keep the hook off of your bike.

Ask any LEO if he don't agree.

They have safety checkpoints for big trucks in my region all the time. It is legal.  Not clear what excuse they use for bikers, but with trucks they call it "safety".

[fxrp]

I don't think even the tickets (helmet, etc) would stand up in court with this "checkpoint."

The courts have held checkpoints legal for DUI enforcement, etc but at those the cops stopped everyone. If they're just stopping motorcyclists then its blatant profiling. Of course if you live 1,000 miles away are you going to go back in a week to fight a traffic violation? Probably not.

Personally I would stop and provide license, registration, and insurance information at the checkpoint.  If they asked me to open the bags for a search I would refuse. I would challenge the stop as profiling and I would ask them to explain what they had for "probable "cause" to search my bags. I'm not carrying so I'm not worried about them finding anything but they will by god get a f~^kin warrant if they want to search my stuff. I always have my camera and I'll photograph the whole event.

Paul

[ChromeWhore]

I think a lot of coppers are getting a bum wrap on this. The fuzz can piss me off sometimes too especially when I get stopped for speeding, but we couldn’t go off our front porch without police. We would be screwed big time without them.

This is the kind of complaints I hear from African-Americans and other groups that have been fighting discriminatory behavior for eons. It seems like a lot of people don’t give a rats a$$ about how others are treated until it happens to them--then it’s a major frickin catastrophe…

I’m okay with shootin the "Potty mouth" with the fuzz as long as it’s for a good cause and protecting the safety of my fellow countrymen.. As far as the stop being a revenue generating scheme, well that’s possible, but remember if the state or county wants to truly generate revenue generating schemes, they have a boat load of ways to do it… The could legalize prostitution, for instance, and tax us on it… That would generate a helluva lot more revenue than any check point known to man. ..

After all, do you want one of those terrorist cells in your backyard--and the reason the f@#kers went undetected was because no one checked the area for terrorist bastards in the name of freedom?  Remember freedom has its constraints. For example, should we allow someone to flick a cigarette butts all over an officially declared fire hazard dry forest area that could result in burning down the whole fickin area? The smoker could reply and say, “Why not, it’s my freedom to smoke.”  So, let’s respect freedom…and be responsible as possible. I’m not perfect… I have the “damndest” time going the speed limit…

I wish all of you the funnest and safest riding times…

PS: I don’t mind shootin the "Potty mouth" with the fuzz as long as there is no booze on my breath…    Cheers..   

[EZGlider]

Well, didn't mean to stir up anti Police sentiment with this BUT I do believe it is profiling.  IMHO, unless you have a reason other than "they belong to "blank" group, you cannot single out riders for stops.  Stopping only or even primarily MCs is discriminatory and I am an ex LEO.

In my experience, hard working Policemen cringe at this kind of stuff.  It just hurts the image and makes the rest of the job harder.  Since I ride the Parkway alot, I can tell you that cages crossing the center line while rubbernecking the eye candy scenery, motor homes piloted by inexperienced drivers who have little on their minds but "I'm on vacation!!!!" and deer and other creatures entering the roadway are alot more dangerous and rate much more attention regarding safety than checking motorcyles for "equipment violations" as a thin excuse for harrassing a specific group and justifying illegal seizures.

Even seizures pursuant to legal arrests for traffic violations are tainted by an illegally contrived "safety checkpoint", IMHO.

EZ (Pro Law Enforcement Period, not just the one's I agree with)

[longshooter]

I'm not siding with the LEO's, but I know not to fight a losing battle.  All the emails in the world won't change a thing!  Accept that and prepare accordingly.
Who knows, there might be safety checks in other areas too.

It is a good thing the majority of people did not feel this way when we were getting mandatory helmets forced on us. Perhaps you were not riding at the time and it did not impact you or you just felt the same way then. But I was and I signed petitions, supported M/C rights groups and rode to my state
capitol to protest the unfairness of the law. The "system" was big then, it may have seemed like a losing battle to many people, all I know is that today,
I have the freedom to choose to wear a helmet, or not. The only sure lost battle is the one not fought!!!!

We must all abide by the laws of whatever state we ride in .. fair enough. But if we feel those laws are unfair, illegal or violate our constitutional rights,
then WE have the RIGHT AND OBLIGATION to oppose it to a final conclusion.

longshooter

[longshooter]

Sorry about the above post. The first part is the quote and the second part is my response.

longshooter

[Alien]

Damn, just damn. There was a time "bikers" would have fought something like this. Now all I here is there is nothing we can do.

I've heard it said who would the judge listen to? Lawyers supress evidence and question the legality of evidence all the time and win! There are also the dash cams, be respectfull, ask if you are under arrest and what is the probable cause/reasonable suspicion for the stop? Sobriety checkpoints are not legal everywhere and they have to follow certain rules to perform them (even though I believe they are a violation of the same 4th ammendment rights this safety stop violates)

If minorities did not fight for their civil rights they would be still sitting in the back of buses and drinking out of different fountains. Descrimination is discrimination whether it be color of skin or mode of transportation (equal protection under the law)

The cigarette butt anology is a flawed one! Littering is not a protected right, try again!

I did not say and do not advocate yelling at the officers and telling them I KNOW MY RIGHTS. You can still be respectfull and demand your rights be respected. If you are going to demend respect and your rights you better damn well be squeeky clean, I am!

[shovelbill]

Oh I understand better than you think.  I just can't see "beating the system" being even a remote possibility.
"The system" is just too large of an opponent.

imagine if a select few thought the same about England. unbelievable.

[RK101]

Damn, just damn. There was a time "bikers" would have fought something like this. Now all I here is there is nothing we can do.

That's the job of the AMA. We can scream and yell all we want on this site and nothing will happen but if we let the AMA know how we feel,  then they can address the issues we might have. There is power in numbers and we don't have the numbers here on Htt unless we join others. AMA has numbers and people in place that are better able to handle this sort of thing.  JMO.

[mark61]

   Alien  has it right!    Want to flex your right without letting the LEOs and court dick you around?  WRITE AND CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN!  You ARE a registered voter, right? LEARN what to do when stopped! Ask them WHY you were stopped. Ask them "Am I under arrest?" If they say no or do not answer after 3 times you can leave. Keep your lawyer on speed dial! JOIN ABATE/AMA/MRF. Lousy $25 a year to fight this stuff for lazy people who won't make an effort.    Oh   no  that is too much bother,,,,easier to spend your time b$tching and moaning on the net..... The reason "they"  the government groups even try this crap is because people won't/don't be involved in the first place!

GROW A PAIR!

mark61

[shovelbill]

i really had something funny to say, but i wont bother. i'm done.

[Faast Ed]

I could see it now: 

"Sir, I read on the internet that I can leave now, so see ya later!"
(Why is this cop following me with his lights flashing?)
"Nope, I don't have to stop because it is unconstitutional,......  Hey!  He's still up my arse!"
"Sir! Please stop following me!"
I have my rights!  (This vacation is exciting!)

[76shuvlinoff]

Whatever your approach taking it out on the specific leo(s) in question is the wrong tactic. Even if he/she is wrong he/she can and probably will make your life hell for the immediate time being if you are deemed belligerent. In the end you are the only one inconvenienced because that is what they are there for. The most you'll get is an apology from some departmental spokesperson.. maybe.  Be grown up, unite, work the system, get your own spokesperson, vote.  Or wear cuffs and sit in the ditch awaiting transport or release, your call.

[ChromeWhore]

Faast  Ed: You are correct...   

It's a fallacy to assume that you can respectfully tell an officer that you respectfully have rights and walk away.  That's like closing your eyes and tapping your heels three times and saying, "There's no place like home." and expect to be home when you open your eyes....  Not realistic... (I guess someone will reply and say that really works in Kansas.) Actually when you open your eyes, you'll likely find yourself in the slammer... 

Take this posting for what it is because it takes a law degree and passing the bar exam to provide legitimate legal advice. No driver license or gun licenses would make a person an expert on this topic.

And always use common sense. You'll be surprise how far you can go on common sense alone.. 

[Killer]

Well, to all the key-board commando’s out there… reality check..
When the BLUE-LIGHTS come on, you’re soon to be in the LEO world, a simple fact.
I’ve been profiled more times than you can shake a stick at. Ya, you have rights, if they want to give them to you. I’ve found its best to be polite and at the same time, let them know that you know what your rights are, usually they will stop poking and digging in your pockets.
It's just my .02

[tireater]

Roll over...You can't fight the man...The only 2 tickets I have had in the last 20 years came 5 years apart...At the same intersection...
Cali. right turn...I beat this big prick mex/Amer bike cop twice in court...Then I filed a complaint on him with the popo...
YOU CAN FIGHT...YOU CAN WIN !!! Or go to plan B...I have been in 6 police chases in the last 3 years...They never wrote me once...
They got so mad that they put a cop 6ft from my place for 2 days...Just so they could see what I was wearing when I went riding my supermoto...
We finally negotiated...If I didn't run in the city...They would not chase me in the country...Yeah right...
I tested the theory by doing a 60 mph one handed wheelie passing a parked cop car on top of our mountain, throwing gang signs....
They might have chased me...after they cleaned up the coffee and dounuts off each other...Kind of hard to tell....

[panz4ever]

Roll over...You can't fight the man...The only 2 tickets I have had in the last 20 years came 5 years apart...At the same intersection...
Cali. right turn...I beat this big prick mex/Amer bike cop twice in court...Then I filed a complaint on him with the popo...
YOU CAN FIGHT...YOU CAN WIN !!! Or go to plan B...I have been in 6 police chases in the last 3 years...They never wrote me once...
They got so mad that they put a cop 6ft from my place for 2 days...Just so they could see what I was wearing when I went riding my supermoto...
We finally negotiated...If I didn't run in the city...They would not chase me in the country...Yeah right...
I tested the theory by doing a 60 mph one handed wheelie passing a parked cop car on top of our mountain, throwing gang signs....
They might have chased me...after they cleaned up the coffee and dounuts off each other...Kind of hard to tell....

IMHO...you place more importance on yourself than you are really worth.

[tireater]

That's why this is America....We value people with different opinions...

[panz4ever]

That's why this is America....We value people with different opinions...

You have definitely gained my respect. Thank you for the commonsense response...

[POGO]

Ok, the Blue Ridge Pkwy is off my list.

[96flhpi]

Who is recommending being disrespectful/beligerant to the police?  Yeah, obviously you aren't going to win that battle. 

I think the point is we shouldn't just accept government actions that are unconstitutional because "well, there's nothing I could do about it."  Like others said, "A couple of militias taking on the most powerful army on earth (Britain 1776), what are you crazy?"  Yeah, well that kind of crazy led to the greatest country on earth, at least until we started ripping out selected parts of the Constitution.  Hell, Gandhi did it without the militias. 

People in Europe take to the streets because they don't like minor trade agreements.  We wouldn't protest in the streets unless Oprah told us to.  We as a whole are exactly the kind of sheep the government likes - uninformed, distracted and ....... oh nevermind, my show's on.

[egstandard]

I've seen protests in the streets lately. Even violence. But that kind of emotion is only when gays can't marry each other.

[mark61]

[quote author=96flhpi
  I think the point is we shouldn't just accept government actions that are unconstitutional because "well, there's nothing I could do about it." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  We as a whole are exactly the kind of sheep the government likes - uninformed, distracted and ....... oh nevermind, my show's on.
[/quote]


You GOT it!.

Now the sheep can go back to their bleating...,

mark61

[egstandard]

Statement Of Constitutional Rights:  Officer, I mean no disrespect, but I understand my rights. I have the right to have an attorney present during questioning. I have a right to refuse to consent to any search of my body, and personal effects. I wish to exercise all my rights. If I am under arrest, I wish to invoke and exercise my Miranda rights and be allowed the opportunity to obtain the advice of my attorney. If I am taken into custody, I request a reasonable opportunity to make arrangements to secure my own property. I do not consent to any impoundment of my property. If I am not under arrest, I want to leave. If I am free to leave, please tell me immediately so that I may go about my business.

[RK101]

Weather we like to admit it or not,The motorcycle community is always so divided that it makes us and easy target.

[gtmalone]

this is probably the reason behind it.  These stories are on the website EZGLIDER posted earlier.  These are since Sept 2007. 

Taser Employed To Terminate Extended Pursuit
Canadian Visitor Killed In Motorcycle Accident
Fatal Motorcycle Accident
Motorcycle Operator Killed In Head-on Collision

[Golfman]

Again - the greatest thing about America is that we have the right to disagree and I guess I am in the minority here.
I understand that the BRP has been a very dangerous place to ride and there has been an unusual amount of accidents and fatalities often involving and sometimes caused by motorcyclists - very often of the "crotch rocket" type. The roads are very windey and tight when riding a Dresser type against oncoming traffic, and the speed crazy crotch rockets (and there are some bad awful cage drivers on these roads).
I don't like it when my rights are violated; but these check points may actually protect our rights to travel these great and beautiful roads in safety.
When your traveling these roads on a Bike you don't need the third beer or shot or a snort; or riding without a valid helmet; or carrying.
I guess I can say that and believe it, too, because this IS America and I served my time.

[Golfman]

I guess I can say that and believe it, too, because this IS America and I served my time.

"My time" refers to time in service during Nam

[76shuvlinoff]

I agree about too much big brother encroaching on our lives I just think there are better ways to protest than to square off with the working Joe at the checkpoint.  I also think natural selection is a legitimate way to cull the herd but the problem is those fools usually take someone else with them.

I like this approach ..if it works. Ultimately citizens need to use their vote to affect real change though.

Statement Of Constitutional Rights:  Officer, I mean no disrespect, but I understand my rights. I have the right to have an attorney present during questioning. I have a right to refuse to consent to any search of my body, and personal effects. I wish to exercise all my rights. If I am under arrest, I wish to invoke and exercise my Miranda rights and be allowed the opportunity to obtain the advice of my attorney. If I am taken into custody, I request a reasonable opportunity to make arrangements to secure my own property. I do not consent to any impoundment of my property. If I am not under arrest, I want to leave. If I am free to leave, please tell me immediately so that I may go about my business.

[tireater]

They had a drunk checkpoint here... They checked 700 people with a flashlight breathalizer...They got one person with .09 bac...
Does anyone feel sorry for the 699 people they stopped that were not drunk...It dosen't sound like there is a drunk driving problem here...

[96flhpi]

Agree with 76.  Getting nasty with the popo ain't gonna get you anything but a free ride.  Like I said before alot of them probably don't like having to enforce these policies.

Tireater - the courts have held up such checkpoints as legal, but not if they stop only red cars, or only foreign cars, etc.  Again, the case here is the singling out of two wheeled vehicles as being in need of "safety education."

[apes]

when was the last time a law passed that game you more freedom.....

[RK101]

There are times that we all have to do some things in work that we just hate doing but it's part of the job. So I have to agree with 96 on the point that I'm sure that most of these guys hate this particular part of there jobs. I'm not saying I agree with these safety stops for bikers only but giving the Leo a hard time for doing a part of his job that he's already not to thrilled about doing is not a real wise move.
The way I see it is our only recourse is to write to our Local politicians, AMA ,ABATE. etc. and tell them how we feel about this sort of treatment towards hard working tax paying citizens just for there mode of transportation. Many of which have given more than there fair share to this country. We might also remind them in our letters that the average motorcycle gets allot better gas mileage then the average automobile which also helps keep us from relying on foreign oil. My 99 Chevy truck gets 16mpg my Harley gets 41+ mpg which one is better for the country and our desire to have less dependency on foriegn oil.

[Tsani]

Safety huh?! Baloney! What did they say during the election? Oh yeah, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. And remember boys and girls, it's not your "right " to drive, it's a "priviledge". However, the illegal profiling, search and seisure in the name of "safety" is a violation of your rights which the majority of American Sheep, I mean people, are willing to accept because they are unwilling to stand up for themselves. It's the ol you go first bull. You can't fight city hall bull.  Now it's too little too late. Just the tip of the iceberg that's floating your way folks. But at least you will be safe. Resistance is futile, you will be assimulated. Baah Baah Baah. 

[gtmalone]

There is probably something going on we don't see. As Golfman said maybe they have a problem with speeders and accidents.  The Checkpoint Chicky might be a "soft sell" to solve a problem and raise awareness rather than having a bunch of LEO's out with radar runs and running up and down the roads. Either option will leave someone PO'd. The checkpoint is a minor inconvenience. Consider it a butt break and a chance to talk to other bikers. You might make a new friend.

Going to the AMA, congress, etc is fine but that may only be effective at the state level. Not sure how you would effect mass change at the county or muncipality level unless AMA has the manpower to work on it case by case at that level.    My .02 worth and I need .01 back in change.

[tireater]

I was in a poker run that went thru a police checkpoint...They were looking for illegals w/o proper paperwork...
So i'm wearing full gear and pull my wallet out after making it to the end of a 2 mile long traffic jam...
So my bike is overheating and they say I can go...it takes about a minute to put my wallet back in my fat ass and everyone is mad...

[Deye76]

There is probably something going on we don't see. As Golfman said maybe they have a problem with speeders and accidents.  The Checkpoint Chicky might be a "soft sell" to solve a problem and raise awareness rather than having a bunch of LEO's out with radar runs and running up and down the roads. Either option will leave someone PO'd. The checkpoint is a minor inconvenience. Consider it a butt break and a chance to talk to other bikers. You might make a new friend.

Going to the AMA, congress, etc is fine but that may only be effective at the state level. Not sure how you would effect mass change at the county or muncipality level unless AMA has the manpower to work on it case by case at that level.    My .02 worth and I need .01 back in change.

So, if during that checkpoint, an uninformed officer disagrees with the rating on your helmet, susequently fines you and prevents you from continuing on your way, then it's nothing more than a inconvienience? 

[gtmalone]

There is probably something going on we don't see. As Golfman said maybe they have a problem with speeders and accidents.  The Checkpoint Chicky might be a "soft sell" to solve a problem and raise awareness rather than having a bunch of LEO's out with radar runs and running up and down the roads. Either option will leave someone PO'd. The checkpoint is a minor inconvenience. Consider it a butt break and a chance to talk to other bikers. You might make a new friend.

So, if during that checkpoint, an uninformed officer disagrees with the rating on your helmet, susequently fines you and prevents you from continuing on your way, then it's nothing more than a inconvienience? 

Certainly more than an inconvenience, but you are wearing proper gear, yes?  That could happen anywhere not just a checkpoint.   Everyone has different opinions on a very polarizing topic and different ways of dealing with it.  Do I like checkpoints, No...but if I hit one I'll just deal with it.

[mark61]

[quote ]
Going to the AMA, congress, etc is fine but that may only be effective at the state level. Not sure how you would effect mass change at the county or municipality level unless AMA has the manpower to work on it case by case at that level. [/quote]

     So how much time have YOU put into making these changes at YOUR municipality? How many hours a day/week month do you sit in front of the computer posting to HTT and how many hours/minutes/seconds have you taken lately to write a letter, make a phone call or even go VOTE with these issues in mind?
     My local government people almost all know me by name. It doesn't really take much time or effort to stop and talk to them when I see them or stop in their offices to discuss issues like this. I VOTE! If i used a phone their offices would be on my speed dial. Believe it or not the people in those offices are just like you and I. They don't want to be annoyed by these laws. They want to be happy and have nice relationships with people. If they know something WILL upset someone enough that they will call and annoy them then they will stop these BS from starting. 
      Speak up! Be counted! Voice your approval or disapproval. Spend a few bucks and a little effort supporting those people who DO spend their time and lives trying to keep this stuff from happening!

mark61

[EZGlider]

Well, this one at least got the awareness up and interest from different points of view.

My last comment here will be this, Sobriety checkpoints have been held legal, even though they get into a grey area regarding "probable cause".  That is, without a legitimate reason for an experienced Officer to suspect a crime has been committed.  OK, BUT they stop EVERYBODY, not just a class of vehicle.  Singling out a class of vehicle, specifically motorcycles, is highly prejudicial and based on the ASSUMPTION that they are more dangerous or likely to be in violation than other vehicles.  Definitely discriminatory against motorcycle riders.

Claiming it is a safetycheck works for sixteen wheelers only because they have to comply with Commercial Standards and are subject to inspections as part of their permit to use the roads.  Motorcycles are, mostly, private conveyances, subject only to the same regulations as other private vehicles.  Yes, there are helmet laws specific to motorcycle riders BUT there are also seatbelt laws for cages.  Many states have held that stopping a vehicle for a seatbelt violation is illegal because , without visible probable cause, the Officer was singling out a particular individual based only on a desire to find something wrong.  Not a big leap from there to "safety checkpoint".

Even if a "safety checkpoint" was deemed to be legal, IMHO as an experienced LEO, stopping ONLY motorcycles takes that already shaky legal premise into the illegal area from the grey area it already inhabited.

It will, ultimately ,be up to the courts.  Be interesting to see how many who were charged get charges dropped based on illegally being singled out as a member of a class.

Anyway, be aware it is happening.  Again, the Alleghany County Sheriff's Officers are generally a good bunch, not at all anti bike and this was probably something they were drafted to do by the USPark Police.  Generally speaking the area is very bike friendly and courts our business.

EZ