Bearing-less Cam Plate/Inner Cam Bearing Upgrade Question

[HarleyInNH]

Hey all,

GREAT new site! Make a donation. I did, it feels good! 

Now:

I plan(hope?) to upgrade my '03 FLHTI to the new bearing-less cam plate and cams (and more) this winter.

As I will most likely use herkobagger (if he's still doing it) as my kit source, can someone who has done this answer a couple q's please:

1. Are the new inner cam bearings a different size than the original stock ones?
2. Will the same tool used to remove the old ones install the new ones without any adaptors?

I know the outer cam journals that ride in the cam plate are larger, just aren't sure about the inners.

I am going to purchase a remover/installer tool, and want to make sure I get it right.

Thanks!

[HCC]

Q#1 = yes
Q#2 = no

I hope your not going to use HD Cams for the new plate. The lobes are pressed onto the cam shaft. Not a good idea. Heard of slipage and catastrophic valve train failure. Why would you want to do this anyway? Just go to a good gear cam setup and your done. What cam were you planning on using?

[Ken R]

Hey all,

GREAT new site! Make a donation. I did, it feels good! 

Now:

I plan(hope?) to upgrade my '03 FLHTI to the new bearing-less cam plate and cams (and more) this winter.

As I will most likely use herkobagger (if he's still doing it) as my kit source, can someone who has done this answer a couple q's please:

1. Are the new inner cam bearings a different size than the original stock ones?
2. Will the same tool used to remove the old ones install the new ones without any adaptors?

I know the outer cam journals that ride in the cam plate are larger, just aren't sure about the inners.

I am going to purchase a remover/installer tool, and want to make sure I get it right.

Thanks!

You'll have to get retrofit cams to work with the new set-up.  Herkobagger can help you there. 
The retrofit cams have inner bearing journals to match the old size or Torrington B-148 inner bearings.  Madtownryder's inner cam bearing removal/installation kit does a great job.  (See the Swap Meet). 

[HarleyInNH]

Thanks all, esp Ken R.

I am going to buy one FROM Madtownryder this week,
just didn't know if his tool would do the retrofit job.

Now I do.

Thanks.

[Hawg Holler]

There's nothing wrong with turning down the inner journals on newer cams to make them work as long as its done by a competent machinist. But I would look at Andrews cams that are made especially for this upgrade. That's because Andrews is the first company to develop a cam for TCs that could be used with the new roller cam system introduced in 07 (06 Dynas). It has turned out to be a very successful and innovative program for Andrews.

I used the 21N but Andrews makes just about all their cams available in the "N" conversion line. Their rear journals are already modified to fit the inner cam bearings, which do not change in size when you do the upgrade. The bearing pullers for 99-05 are designed for this. Kuryakyn also makes their cams in the upgrade configuration and there may be more companies out there now.

[Tattoo]

Q#1 = yes
Q#2 = no

I hope your not going to use HD Cams for the new plate. The lobes are pressed onto the cam shaft. Not a good idea. Heard of slipage and catastrophic valve train failure. Why would you want to do this anyway? Just go to a good gear cam setup and your done. What cam were you planning on using?

How many of the H-D cams you see go bad???  I thought the SE cams from H-D were not the press fit???

[bfancy]

I too just did the cam tension conversion upgrade (hydraulic tensioner/roller chain) on my 2005 Ultra Classic. I used Herkobaggers kit with Andrews 21N cams. The kit is 100% complete and went together well. The inner cam journal on the Andrews cam is the same size as the stock cam. I replaced the inner cam bearings with Torrington 148's using Madtownryder's removal/installation tool - it worked great. The 21N cams really add torque especially in the 2000-4000 rpm. My bike really pulls strong especially uphill and passing.

[HarleyInNH]

Thanks b.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear re: the tool.

I'm debating 21's vs 26's right now.

Congrats on the rebuild.

[Don D]

There's nothing wrong with turning down the inner journals on newer cams to make them work as long as its done by a competent machinist.

A few details worth mentioning,
A lathe cut IMO is not accurate enough to reach final size and be assured of the accurate center and runout required to not put undue strain on the inner bearings (max runout .0005 per Herko). Precision grinding is preferred. The surface hardening is shot after the metal removal and at that point an additional undersized dimension is wiser to accommodate an available bearing inner race which is a thin sleeve properly hardened and compatible with the bearing when press fit with precision jigging.
Another point
The SE cams are not pressed lobes just the OEM stock cams.

[Hawg Holler]

There's nothing wrong with turning down the inner journals on newer cams to make them work as long as its done by a competent machinist.

A few details worth mentioning,
A lathe cut IMO is not accurate enough to reach final size and be assured of the accurate center and runout required to not put undue strain on the inner bearings (max runout .0005 per Herko). Precision grinding is preferred. The surface hardening is shot after the metal removal and at that point an additional undersized dimension is wiser to accommodate an available bearing inner race which is a thin sleeve properly hardened and compatible with the bearing when press fit with precision jigging.
Another point
The SE cams are not pressed lobes just the OEM stock cams.

Good points, which is why I say it makes sense to use the Andrews N cams.