'05 ECM in place of an '02 ECM?

[mayor]

I've been curious about this for a while...why can't you just plug in an '05 and up ECM in the place of an '02 ECM?     The T-max uses the same module for '01-'07's Delphi models, so that tells me that the ECM plugs are the same. 

So just curious, what would I need to do to run an '05 and up ECM on my '02 bagger?   

[Don D]

You can but you will get a CEL
No serial data bus, the Delphi looks for that after MY 2003

[mayor]

No serial data bus, the Delphi looks for that after MY 2003

ok, is that something I can add to the ECM connections?  what data is being exchanged, and from what?

[FLTRI]

The '05 ECM is used for all Delphi ECM replacements (except 08-up baggers and new CAN Softails).
The system files are different so the ECM must be flashed with the system that the bike is configured for.
HTH,
Bob

[mayor]

The '05 ECM is used for all Delphi ECM replacements (except 08-up baggers and new CAN Softails).

that makes sense. 

The system files are different so the ECM must be flashed with the system that the bike is configured for.

OK, how do I make the -05 ECM work on my '02..and be able to use the features of the -05 ECM? 

[phatbob]

Wouldn't you have to change the wire harness to 2004 or newer?

[FLTRI]

OK, how do I make the -05 ECM work on my '02..and be able to use the features of the -05 ECM?

Now that's horse of a different feather. Since there are subtle differences between communication, speed wiring, etc. it is not simply a "drop in a base cal and go" thing.
You may want to shoot Steve a PM, but expect an easy answer.
Bob

[Steve Cole]

The instruments are different, the speed sensor is wired direct to the speedo plus some of the sensors are different. So you can run a '05 ECM in a 2001 - 2004 bike but you must use software that is set up for the rest of the bike. In our calibrations you use 105 software for the early ECM and the late ECM in early bike uses 127 software. I've not spent the necessary time to go through all the various model wiring diagrams to see what all we will need to swap out so we could run later software that would allow close loop and other options. It could be no big deal and one way works for all models but it could be a big can of worms just as well.

[1FSTRK]

Mayor
    This sounds like your kind of project. It sounds like you have a lot of winter left, so once you get it figured out you can share it with all of us.

[mayor]

Wouldn't you have to change the wire harness to 2004 or newer?

that's what I'm trying to figure out.  The connections to the ECM are the same.  If what Bob pointed out is true, that an -05 is a suitable replacement the earlier ECM's...then it should just be a software and incidental hardware issue.  I looked up the current ECM part number for my '02, but it's still listed as an -02 number (w/no suffix letter). 

This sounds like your kind of project. It sounds like you have a lot of winter left, so once you get it figured out you can share it with all of us.

well...Steve's response didn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzy feeling.    I figured I'd have about $800 or so by the time I bought an -05 ecm, o2 hardware and TTS.  That's a little more than I'd want to risk on an "It could be no big deal ".     I'm thinking about it, but I'm not sure I'm ready to commit yet.   

[Don D]

OK I will go into a little more detail. My buddy and I had what I believe to be the first closed loop conversion on a 2006 and now we are working on an 01 softail and a 03 ultra.
I repeat, if you install the -05 ecm in the 02 bike all things will function but you will get a CEL. I have not checked the trouble code because I know what the issue is. This is after the dealer flashes it correctly with the DT
The ECM pin-outs are the same.  The difference, I believe, is the serial bus wire from the ECM only goes to the data plug on the pre 2004 models.  On 2004up models it also connects to the speedo.  Also, the speed sensor on the 2003 connects directly to the speedo while on the 04 and later, it goes to the ECM.  I don't know if the ECM cares whether the speedo is on the serial bus or not.  If not, it may only be the matter of re routing one wire. Get the schematics out and compare them you will see.
BTW Revolution Performance has already converted beta test versions by some ECM trickery without any rewiring but if I know you Mayor you will not opt for a plug and play  solution because you want a little more play in there.

[mayor]

thanks Don.     that's the kind of info I was looking for. 

I'm curious about the RP product, but as you mentioned I'm not sure I'm willing to give up the control I have now (w/the T-mx) for a system that is completely out of my control.    

[TXChop]

Not sure if it helps ya mayor...Thought i would throw it out there anyway...

My bike is an 05 touring.When i converted to efi i ran an 01 softail ecm and stock 01 softail ecm cal. It was tuned and worked just fine for everything except the speedometer. The speedo would read 10 times faster than actual speed.
I now have an 05 ecm and can use closed loop maps if i want to,..

not sure if that helps ya reverse engineer or not..

[cts1950]

. The speedo would read 10 times faster than actual speed.
I now have an 05 ecm and can use closed loop maps if i want to,..

Will the tts speedo calibration let you get the speed more accurate. Another thought how about the recalibration modules like rev-tech spliced into the speedo connection.

[cts1950]

I spent a few minuets looking at the differences between the 02 and 07 diagrams. In 02 the speed pickup goes directly to the speedo as a white wire on pin 9. The speedo retransmits this info to the rest of the bike in a white wire with green tracer pin #7. That info goes to the ecm and curse control as speed signal. The ecm takes the signal from the white/green pin #33 wire as it's input and converts it to the serial data link or vss/serial data link to pin #5 a light green/violet  to the 8B connector and the colors change to gray/yellow for the tsm/tssm module pin #3 .
I have not tried it but I would think for the 05 ecm that connecting the signal white wire from the speed sensor directly to the ecm #33 pin  and the speedo #9 pin and leaving the white/green wire connected to pin #7 on the speedo and the curse control K pin. I know there was a change in the cruse control module in 05 and the tsm. I think this should allow the original speedo and tsm and cruse control to work without having to change them. I would strongly suggest that having the schematics for both model years.
I would think this mod would retain the original speedo, tach, curse control, and tssm/tsm.
The new Tach and Speedo are operated from the serial data link. Yet the pink wire for the tach is still used but is connected to the curse control module. The old tach and cruse control shared the same pink wire pin 3 on the ecm.