Heat Cycle

[WideBoy04]

Getting ready to fire up the big bore in a couple days.
Have been told to heat cycle the motor 3 times before
riding. First, with hands on the jugs, wait till it starts to
warm then shut off until completely cool. Second, feel
until jugs get warm then cool completely. Third, feel until
too hot to hold then cool completely. Then ride from 2000
to 3000 rpm's back to 2000 through the gears for a few miles.
For the first 100 miles don't exceed 3000 rpm's. Don't lug.
Would this be one of the safest ways normally to do a break in
and to seat the rings?

                                  Thanks, Jim

[markymark]

I actually did the same cycling on mine. I did it in 30 Second intervals working up to 5 minutes allowing "complete" cool-down between starts.

[crazycalvin]

Jim, you might want to consider as soon as the bike will idle normally, to raise your rpms up around 1800 to 2000 so piston oilers will work.  Somebody else can probably tell you at what rpm the piston oilers will kick in.  Let it run for about 20 or 30 seconds and gently vary the rpms from 1800 to 2500.  By this time it will probably start warming up.  Shut it down and check for leaks, oil level, etc.  After it has cooled down then you can start it up again.  At this time be ready to ride immediately so that after 30 seconds or so of gentle rpms from 1800 to 2500 rpms you can take it for a gentle ride and remember to vary your rpms.  After about 25 miles, I ran my rpms up around 3500 with the occasional 4000 blast.  At 100 miles I rode it like I stole it.  Good luck, Calvin.

[choseneasy]

 Man, you are gonna get allot of opinions on this. FWIW, I like to heat cycle the motor, kinda like you describe. I'm checking for intake leaks, idle ,oil return etc.. when it is first running.  After it is cycled then I will run her easy for a few miles like you describe and make sure she is running smooth and sounds good.  After that I will get fairly aggressive but definitely not to the point of revving the "Potty mouth" out of her. Works for me and good leakdown numbers.

[GoFast.....]

 This is a great article on break in and we should put in the tech section or somewhere

https://www.axiomcycles.com/pages/info/tech/Harley_Davidson_Engine_Break_In.asp

[crazycalvin]

I saw a break in procedure by Hippo once and it was pretty interesting also.  Later, Calvin.

[Ken R]

Getting ready to fire up the big bore in a couple days.
Have been told to heat cycle the motor 3 times before
riding. First, with hands on the jugs, wait till it starts to
warm then shut off until completely cool. Second, feel
until jugs get warm then cool completely. Third, feel until
too hot to hold then cool completely. Then ride from 2000
to 3000 rpm's back to 2000 through the gears for a few miles.
For the first 100 miles don't exceed 3000 rpm's. Don't lug.
Would this be one of the safest ways normally to do a break in
and to seat the rings?

                                  Thanks, Jim

Jim, that's just about what I did last week when I finished my build.  You didn't mention what rpms for each heat cycle.  I kinda varied the rpms between 1,200 and 2,000 for 4 or 5 heat cycles before I to 'er for a ride.  Then, about the same as you.   Bishop's recommends oil change after 100 miles. 

Ken

[tireater]

Why dosen't this guy like heat cycles...?
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[calgary56]

Warm it up, then run it hard !!

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

.... and as much as some might think this won't work, this is exactly the procedure I used when I went from 88" to 95" with SE 203 cams on the 04th of March 2006 with 35,131 Km (21,820 miles) on the engine.

The bike now has 204,606 Km (127,084 miles) total miles on it, ....... 169,475 Km (105,263 miles) of those with 95" broken in using the Motoman Break-In Method, ...... it still runs great.

Now I'm not saying this is the only way to break in an engine, just pointing out that this method does work, regardless of what some folks think.

[POORBOY]

I do the heat cycles, I start out  easy but end up hammer down, 

[FLTRI]

Warm it up, then run it hard !!

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

.... and as much as some might think this won't work, this is exactly the procedure I used when I went from 88" to 95" with SE 203 cams on the 04th of March 2006 with 35,131 Km (21,820 miles) on the engine.

The bike now has 204,606 Km (127,084 miles) total miles on it, ....... 169,475 Km (105,263 miles) of those with 95" broken in using the Motoman Break-In Method, ...... it still runs great.

Now I'm not saying this is the only way to break in an engine, just pointing out that this method does work, regardless of what some folks think.

Funny thing is this is also the way most race engine builders break in engines. Course they are prolly in a hurry.  I've been breaking in mine and customer's street engines this way for over 30 years without an issue, but I've sure seen a ton of oil burners that were broken in by being easy on it, especially in the first 20-30 miles where ring break in is most critical. And I also use synthetic oil for break in as well since there is virtually no heat control like liquid coolled engines and friction is the highest during ring break-in, but what do I know?

[redmtrckl]

4 heat cycles and then onto the dyno for a few easy pulls to make sure and get the AFR at a safe number then ride the snit out of it. For my own, it gets some full pulls before it comes off the dyno. It's never burned a drop of oil.

[GoFast.....]

I guess you can break them in like a guy on a message board or follow a company that has been 1# in afthermarket engine production forever, S&S, Take your pick

[bouncingVman]

What do they do at the H-D Factory ??

-BVM

[redmtrckl]

What do they do at the H-D Factory ??

-BVM

I'll guess it's not just a couple of heat cycles

[Ken R]

You can follow the advice of someone on the Internet (that has 300 motorcycle break-ins to his name and nothing to lose if you follow his advice) or use the break-in procedures promoted by the engine manufacturers that have produced hundreds of thousands (or millions) of motorcycles .

Anectodal information like "ran it like I stole it and it's still running great and doesn't burn an ounce of oil" may work for some . . . . .  but I'll take the advice of the manufacturersbut that have a whole lot more at stake if their instructions result in failure.  Even 1%  failure would result in huge numbers.

Ken

[FLTRI]

I guess you can break them in like a guy on a message board or follow a company that has been 1# in afthermarket engine production forever, S&S, Take your pick

Go-fast,
Can you imagine, if S&S recommends to ride like you stole it, or how you ride every day to get the rings set (break-in), how many doofs out there would simply go out on a hot 100+ deg summer day and hold the throttle WFO, then bitch because the engine developed problems, and want warranty coverage, not to mention the badmouthing that would inevitably come from it....even if the supplier covered everything, including labor. S&S has an incredible amount of experience with high performance HD engines there is only one reason they offer a 2 year warranty for these 124s, etc. (because their engines are reliable) but they have to be verrrrry careful how they word everything they say in print.

Just get one of the S&S race engine builders off to the side and ask him what he personally reccommends. It is exceedingly difficult to rely on all customers to know the difference between properly loading an engine to set rings while paying attention to ambient temperature and how it affects the internal engine temps during break-in, and simply getting on the bike with a heavy throttle hand without regard to these all-so-important engine temps.

Remember, we are talking about air cooled engines (ambient temps change the time period until overheating occurs during break-in)that, in my opinion, require a bit of experience and common sense ( ) to do the break-in job properly.
That said, everyone must believe and do what they feel is best,
Bob

S&S warranty coverage:
"Engines specifically designed for and sold with the S&S Intelligent Spark Technology ignition system and assembled at S&S are covered by a special thirty-six (36) month warranty on any street application  displacement  under 120” and covered by a special twenty four (24) month warranty on any street application displacement over 120”  "

[crazycalvin]

If you are doing just big bore and cams, how long does it to take to seat the rings?  Probably 25 miles or less.  Wouldn't all the other miles just make everything else wear and mate properly?  Are the crank bearings already broke in?  (if you have more than 500 miles on the motor probably so) If you start a fresh big bore and just let it idle until it warms up, I personally think that could cause more harm than good.  Later, Calvin.

[Faast Ed]

You can follow the advice of someone on the Internet (that has 300 motorcycle break-ins to his name and nothing to lose if you follow his advice) or use the break-in procedures promoted by the engine manufacturers that have produced hundreds of thousands (or millions) of motorcycles .

Anectodal information like "ran it like I stole it and it's still running great and doesn't burn an ounce of oil" may work for some . . . . .  but I'll take the advice of the manufacturersbut that have a whole lot more at stake if their instructions result in failure.  Even 1%  failure would result in huge numbers.

Ken

   

You don't have to "ride it like you stole it" to seat the rings. LOL  But you don't want to just baby it either.
Rolling on/rolling off,  Accel/Decel (under load)will put the pressure on the rings to seat them. Freshly honed cylinder walls on untouched rings create friction and to even think about the heat generated by a WOT run with zero ring-seat miles,...... just seems pretty insane to me! 

You guys can "he said she said" this thing to death, but you shall NEVER convince me different.
BTW:  My bike does not use a noticable drop of oil between intervals.  Go figure.

[barny7655]

Getting off the subject, but ring based , i service police cars GMH gen 4 motors 6 litre V 8s , all the police cars use oil during services , im talking a few litres , thats 2 litres in 10,000klm , they have done for all the yrs i have services them from the ol 5 litre to the 5.7 gen 3 ,yes they do use them hard from day one, and we are in the country here so lots of open roads as well as the inner streets,any ways looking at it in general terms they use far more oil that the normal gen 4 , same motor , no mods,cheers Barny

[dadawg]

Getting off the subject, but ring based , i service police cars GMH gen 4 motors 6 litre V 8s , all the police cars use oil during services , im talking a few litres , thats 2 litres in 10,000klm , they have done for all the yrs i have services them from the ol 5 litre to the 5.7 gen 3 ,yes they do use them hard from day one, and we are in the country here so lots of open roads as well as the inner streets,any ways looking at it in general terms they use far more oil that the normal gen 4 , same motor , no mods,cheers Barny

industrial /municipal /etc. vehicles tent to idle HOURS every day that dont show on the odometer , that could contribute to the oil use.

[redmtrckl]

I like the dyno for initial break in where it's in a controlled environment. I'm sure engines are run hard before leaving the factory at least some are and that's basically what happens on the dyno after a big bore upgrade. If the bottom end parts are new then I might be inclined to take it a little easier for the first 50-100 miles.

My brother sells big trucks, like in 18 wheeler and when a new truck gets delivered it gets hooked to a trailerand hits the road fully loaded 80,000lbs gross and full power. These motors run a million or more miles sometimes before overhaul.

New air cooled aircraft engines get full throttle on take off too and then varied at 75%-65% power for 25hrs till oil change time.
http://www.factoryengines.com/backup9_24/docs/TCM%20Engine%20Break-In%20Flight%20Tips.pdf

My 07 was taken on a 600 mile run for it's break in and we ran 70-90 and changed the oil when I got home.
It's never used any oil and has always has above average power for what it is.

Watch the temps and vary the speed with lots of full throttle bursts and hard decels is the way I'll continue to break mine in.

I ain't about to say what oil I use

[Sonny S.]

Wonder why we never hear from anyone that works at The Factory, about how certain things are done.
With all the HTT members you would think someone would actually KNOW these things.

[Faast Ed]

I'm sure engines are run hard before leaving the factory at least some are.....

How can you be "sure" of that?  Have a link to info that confirms that?
The reason I ask is because running them hard at the factory contradicts their own recommendations (owners manual with every bike sold).

[Faast Ed]

My brother sells big trucks, like in 18 wheeler and when a new truck gets delivered it gets hooked to a trailerand hits the road fully loaded 80,000lbs gross and full power. These motors run a million or more miles sometimes before overhaul.

Did your brother forget to tell you these trucks never see above 2300 rpm during their entire lifespan? (not even during breakin)

[Deye76]

Warm it up, then run it hard !!

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

.... and as much as some might think this won't work, this is exactly the procedure I used when I went from 88" to 95" with SE 203 cams on the 04th of March 2006 with 35,131 Km (21,820 miles) on the engine.

The bike now has 204,606 Km (127,084 miles) total miles on it, ....... 169,475 Km (105,263 miles) of those with 95" broken in using the Motoman Break-In Method, ...... it still runs great.

Now I'm not saying this is the only way to break in an engine, just pointing out that this method does work, regardless of what some folks think.

With the short riding year in Calgary, 17,000 miles a year, (thereabouts) is darn good. In order to do that, need a dependable bike.  Wonder if that method is OK for more radical builds?

[Deye76]

"hard decels"

Careful, not too hard with these current crank assy's. 

[Ken R]

Wonder why we never hear from anyone that works at The Factory, about how certain things are done.
With all the HTT members you would think someone would actually KNOW these things.

Don't know if it counts, but at the 100th, during a factory tour, I watched them make the parts and assemble the engine.  They started each engine at the end of the line and ran it while it was hooked to some test equipment.  I don't remember exactly, but don't think each got more than 5 minutes.  Just enough to check it out.  Then, they were crated for shipment to the other factories. 

My guess is that the motorcycle assembly plants start each one, too; for maybe 5 minutes. 

Then, the dealer gets 'em and their started again; at least once.  By the time we straddle for the first time, most have probably gone through a half dozen heat cycles (by default).   Then, their end-user break-in begins. 

Ken

[FLTRI]

Getting off the subject, but ring based , i service police cars GMH gen 4 motors 6 litre V 8s , all the police cars use oil during services , im talking a few litres , thats 2 litres in 10,000klm , they have done for all the yrs i have services them from the ol 5 litre to the 5.7 gen 3 ,yes they do use them hard from day one, and we are in the country here so lots of open roads as well as the inner streets,any ways looking at it in general terms they use far more oil that the normal gen 4 , same motor , no mods,cheers Barny

You failed to mention IMO the hardest abuse they go through. Idling for sometimes extended time. This is from day 1. At least here in Clifornia the cops never shut off their engine while on duty, even if they are parked for hours.  I would say if there is blame for oil usage it was from the idling rather than accellerating and decellerating.
Just a guess

[WideBoy04]

Thanks for all the input. Such a variety of techniques to do the
same thing boogles the mind. I also got advice from the Service
Manager that installed my big bore and heads along with some
from Todd of Revolution Cycle Performance who done my bore.
Temp is supposed to be 40 and dry Saturday should be a good
day to seat the rings and keep engine temp down. I'm going to
start with 3 heat cycles @ 1500 rpm's, around 30 seconds, 60
seconds, lastly 2 minutes. From what I gather this is to do the
inspections and allow the head gasket to seal? I'm going to try to
do two runs of about 10 miles each. 1st 2nd and 3rd gears on some
back roads near my house running up and down to 3000 rpm's for
about 10 miles. After a complete cool down, repeat. After that
ride normal up to 3000 rpm's with some burst up to 4000 for 500
miles. I'll probably try to put 500 more on it riding normal (for me
usually not over 4000 rpm's) before I hook up the trailer for trips.
I'm hoping this is good enough not to glaze the cylinders.

                                       Jim

[WideBoy04]

Forgot to mention that as cold as it is here I have the
oil in the house keeping it warm until I'm ready to fire it
up. Oil filter is dry and I want to build pressure as quick
as possible. Should the motor be turned over without the
sparkplugs first or just fire it up?

                              Thanks, Jim

[tdrglide]

I've only done a few of these but, I crank them over with the plugs out but grounded away from the plug holes. Crank it over till I have some oil pressure. You wont get much because the starter doesn't turn fast enough. Install plugs then fire it up and do your heat cycles and ride to your local tuner. Tell him how new the build is. Get a good tune as soon as possible

[WideBoy04]

This is a carb and had a dyno done before the big bore.
I might stick the 50 slow jet back in I took out. Maybe a
little rich will help keep things cool and not tend to burn
something while I'm seating the rings. It probably won't
see a dyno until I get a couple thousand on it.


                                  Jim

[Faast Ed]

Forgot to mention that as cold as it is here I have the
oil in the house keeping it warm until I'm ready to fire it
up. Oil filter is dry and I want to build pressure as quick
as possible. Should the motor be turned over without the
sparkplugs first or just fire it up?

                              Thanks, Jim

The Cold weather is great for break-in.

[GoFast.....]

I like the dyno for initial break in where it's in a controlled environment. I'm sure engines are run hard before leaving the factory at least some are and that's basically what happens on the dyno after a big bore upgrade. If the bottom end parts are new then I might be inclined to take it a little easier for the first 50-100 miles.

My brother sells big trucks, like in 18 wheeler and when a new truck gets delivered it gets hooked to a trailerand hits the road fully loaded 80,000lbs gross and full power. These motors run a million or more miles sometimes before overhaul.

New air cooled aircraft engines get full throttle on take off too and then varied at 75%-65% power for 25hrs till oil change time.
http://www.factoryengines.com/backup9_24/docs/TCM%20Engine%20Break-In%20Flight%20Tips.pdf

My 07 was taken on a 600 mile run for it's break in and we ran 70-90 and changed the oil when I got home.
It's never used any oil and has always has above average power for what it is.

Watch the temps and vary the speed with lots of full throttle bursts and hard decels is the way I'll continue to break mine in.

I ain't about to say what oil I use

I come from a truckin family and we overhauled our own engines and the blocks have cylinder liners in them that are twice as hard as a Harley cylinder.
When you overhaul a engine you do not bore a block you put new cylinder sleeves in it. A whole diffrent animal.

[PoorUB]

Wonder why we never hear from anyone that works at The Factory, about how certain things are done.
With all the HTT members you would think someone would actually KNOW these things.

Don't know if it counts, but at the 100th, during a factory tour, I watched them make the parts and assemble the engine.  They started each engine at the end of the line and ran it while it was hooked to some test equipment.  I don't remember exactly, but don't think each got more than 5 minutes.  Just enough to check it out.  Then, they were crated for shipment to the other factories. 

My guess is that the motorcycle assembly plants start each one, too; for maybe 5 minutes. 

Then, the dealer gets 'em and their started again; at least once.  By the time we straddle for the first time, most have probably gone through a half dozen heat cycles (by default).   Then, their end-user break-in begins. 

Ken

Pretty close to what really happens. The factory don't run the bike any longer than it takes to make sure it will make it to the dealer. My bet before the dealer gets the bike the engine has no more than a few minutes, like less than 10 minutes of run time. The dealer is responsable to make sure it is right.
I used to live where they build Arctic Cat snowmobiles. I went through a few tours over the years. At teh assembly line, each engine was test run before it was dropped in a sled. They had a test bench set up by the assembly line. The operator would pull an engine out of a crate, set it on a fixture, hook up fuel, Shove the clutch against a spinning car tire to crank the engine over. The engine would fire and run for 2-3 seconds before he would hit the kill switch and send it down the line. The engine would get screwed into a sled, then the sled boxed for shipment. If the engine did not start it was set aside and someone would check it over and send it back to the line.

[bouncingVman]

I have to think that they run the bike on a dyno for a few minutes at the factory... hope so anyway. I've never been to York or KC to see one put together.

PoorUB,

I think Arctic Cat use egines made by Suzuki. At least I know the older sleds had Suzuki engines. They probably have gone through some sort of QC at the Suzuki plant as well. May be run them for 4 more seconds before shipping them off to Thief River... who knows. LOL. It would be intersting to find out.

[harleytoprock]

When I had visited the York factory  assembly line back in the 80's I got to see at the end of the line when the bike was fired up. Gas was added to the tank , a temporary battery was hung from the side of the frame near the seat, and cables were clamped. The operator fired the bike, and rode it into a test chamber like he was stealing it. In the chamber, there were like dyno wheels built into the ground. The operator rode it on to the wheels and then blasted through the gears. While he was riding on the wheels and getting no where, he was looking at guages and readouts on the wall. My guess was he was doing about 60 miles an hour and it last about 5 minutes or so. There was no warm up time and the operator was not gentle on the throttle at all. At that time, I remember I was really surprised, as I had been from the old school of gentle break ins.

[FLTRI]

I've only done a few of these but, I crank them over with the plugs out but grounded away from the plug holes. Crank it over till I have some oil pressure. You wont get much because the starter doesn't turn fast enough. Install plugs then fire it up and do your heat cycles and ride to your local tuner. Tell him how new the build is. Get a good tune as soon as possible

From a tuner:  - Great advice, as running an engine out of tune (read: too lean or too rich) in places will do more harm than simply rinding the bike normally if it is in tune.

[WideBoy04]

Got the heat cycles done. 30 sec., 60 sec., then 2 min. No leaks
or any sounds to be concerned about, so far. Finished final assy.
Not in time to do a break in ride, was feeling a little slowish today.
What started out to be just some powder coat work turned into a
95" big bore, new 06 heads, chrome rocker boxes, powder coated
cam cover, trans end cover, trans top cover, lifter covers, and
primary cover. Its a disease I tell ya a disease. The porta
tank tip I got from another thread worked like a charm. Gonna
be in the 30's this week think I'll wait on the next 40's day..... Hey
I'm gettin old.

                                     Jim

                                   

[243ron]

You might as well ask about what's the best brand of oil to use; you'll get just as many answers. Lets not make rocket science out of this. Don't baby the machine, but don't beat the "Potty mouth" out of it either. VARY the RPM's. Been doing this for 40 years with no problems.

[FLTRI]

You might as well ask about what's the best brand of oil to use; you'll get just as many answers. Lets not make rocket science out of this. Don't baby the machine, but don't beat the "Potty mouth" out of it either. VARY the RPM's. Been doing this for 40 years with no problems.

[WideBoy04]

WOW 40 years, you must be one of the OFOPOS also.

                                       Thanks for all input, Jim