120R tuning?

[makstv5]

Was getting ready to send the bike out for a dyno tune with the SEPST map that i installed. Have been watching posts on the Revolution Performance EMS what if anything would i be losing with this vs. a dyno tune? Just checking on options that might be available vs. the dyno route. Thanks any negative issues with it would be great to hear.

[BVHOG]

Was getting ready to send the bike out for a dyno tune with the SEPST map that i installed. Have been watching posts on the Revolution Performance EMS what if anything would i be losing with this vs. a dyno tune? Just checking on options that might be available vs. the dyno route. Thanks any negative issues with it would be great to hear.

Well since I am a dyno owner I guess it would be like asking the butcher if you should become a vegetarian. I will say I have heard nothing but positive comments on the Rev Perf setup, however it may run great but you will never know for sure if you extracted everything possible, at least with the dyno tune you have data letting you know for sure what the optimum setup would be.

[makstv5]

Well that seems like an honest reply

[Sc00ter]

Was getting ready to send the bike out for a dyno tune with the SEPST map that i installed. Have been watching posts on the Revolution Performance EMS what if anything would i be losing with this vs. a dyno tune? Just checking on options that might be available vs. the dyno route. Thanks any negative issues with it would be great to hear.

Well since I am a dyno owner I guess it would be like asking the butcher if you should become a vegetarian. I will say I have heard nothing but positive comments on the Rev Perf setup, however it may run great but you will never know for sure if you extracted everything possible, at least with the dyno tune you have data letting you know for sure what the optimum setup would be.

With a handful of dyno operators, including some who participate on this site...I would completely agree with that statement.
However for those without access to such skills, it would appear the Rev. Perf. EMS may be a viable alternative.  It's probably to soon to state this equivocally, but the positive comments are encouraging.

[partycrasher]

The answer assumes that the dyno tuner has the proper equipment and actually knows how to use it......many, many people pay good money for lousy dyno tunes.

[timtoolman]

yep!!!!!

[wurk_truk]

There have been a few issues with the EMS.  SURPRISE!!!  They seem to be exhaust related.... similar to exhaust problems while v-tuning.

BVHog has told me numerous times that if the exhaust is not correct... it is better to tune in open loop.  Steve Cole has told me numerous times that one needs to know if exhaust is correct for the O2s before trying a V-Tune, and to FIX placement if not correct.  (Ya know... they both are absolutely correct).

An EMS won't know about your exhaust, etc, right now.

With a dyno tune done by somebody competent AND seeing how you already have a tuner...  I would go with a tune.  A tuner worth his salt would KNOW if your individual exhaust is up to snuff, OR work around it all with proper equipment and experience.

[Sc00ter]

There have been a few issues with the EMS.  SURPRISE!!!  They seem to be exhaust related.... similar to exhaust problems while v-tuning.

  With a dyno tune done by somebody competent AND seeing how you already have a tuner...  I would go with a tune.

Can you elaborate?  What specific issues have you witnessed?

[wurk_truk]

Me?  None... but a few top tuners on this board e-mail me crap all the time.  Cannot name names as THAT in itself would start some crap.

But... it looks like the placement of the O2s IS as important for the EMS as it is for anything that uses O2 sensors is MY take...  (after sifting out the normal BS).  [I'm someone who thinks the EMS isn't a bad thing]

On the bike in question... after a couple of returns to Brian, it STILL didn't work right.  I'm a thinking it needed an actual tuner's 'trick bag' to 'fix' due to O2 placement, which makes complete sense to me.  Not really an EMS issue, but....  each bike IS different, right?  Those O2s NEED to work to get the map inside of the EMS to 'center'.  Since one can NOT tune an EMS... the ECM was flashed back to stock and a 'normal' tune was done to the bike.

I do NOT feel this is a 'failure' of the EMS, as it is finding certain combos dont work well with it.  BIG difference to me!

[Sc00ter]

Me?  None... but a few top tuners on this board e-mail me crap all the time.  Cannot name names as THAT in itself would start some crap.

But... it looks like the placement of the O2s IS as important for the EMS as it is for anything that uses O2 sensors is MY take...  (after sifting out the normal BS).  [I'm someone who thinks the EMS isn't a bad thing]

On the bike in question... after a couple of returns to Brian, it STILL didn't work right.  I'm a thinking it needed an actual tuner's 'trick bag' to 'fix' due to O2 placement, which makes complete sense to me.  Not really an EMS issue, but....  each bike IS different, right?  Those O2s NEED to work to get the map inside of the EMS to 'center'.  Since one can NOT tune an EMS... the ECM was flashed back to stock and a 'normal' tune was done to the bike.

I do NOT feel this is a 'failure' of the EMS, as it is finding certain combos dont work well with it.  BIG difference to me!

I'd be curious to know what brand pipe was causing the issue.  Front pipe - rear pipe - both?  What was the sensor location that caused the issue?  And what mods were done to the motor?  I realize you likely don't know the details, but it would be more worthwhile to those considering the EMS to better understand the issue.  Maybe Brian will jump in...

[makstv5]

I spoke to Revolution Performance the other day and was told that the wide band sensors need to be at least 6'' from the exhaust ports and not more than 8''. i went out and looked at my Bosszilla 18mm o2 locations, they are within 3or4'' of the ports so i went in and called Rev. Perf. again and this time they they assured me that that was fine being this close. Totally different than what they told me i had to have on the first call which made me feel uncomfortable and now i see this o2 sensor issue so i'm not biting on this tuner right now.

[rbabos]

I spoke to Revolution Performance the other day and was told that the wide band sensors need to be at least 6'' from the exhaust ports and not more than 8''. i went out and looked at my Bosszilla 18mm o2 locations, they are within 3or4'' of the ports so i went in and called Rev. Perf. again and this time they they assured me that that was fine being this close. Totally different than what they told me i had to have on the first call which made me feel uncomfortable and now i see this o2 sensor issue so i'm not biting on this tuner right now.

Not sure that 3-4 is all that good of a thing either? Who knows but I'm thinking it will drive up the heat regardless of narrow or widebands.
Ron

[Steve Cole]

I do not want to get into he said or she said but, you need to follow the manufactures specifications if you expect a part to work properly. In this case, O2 setup, you should follow the Bosch specifications. Funny how people would think that any system that uses O2 sensors would work properly when you do not follow the specifications and it does not matter who's system it is as long as the O2 sensors are not working properly you can and will have issues. Ignoring the problem is just bad business and customers need to be made aware of it and allowed to make a decision on what they want done.

[FLTRI]

But... it looks like the placement of the O2s IS as important for the EMS as it is for anything that uses O2 sensors is MY take...  (after sifting out the normal BS).  [I'm someone who thinks the EMS isn't a bad thing]

On the bike in question... after a couple of returns to Brian, it STILL didn't work right...Not really an EMS issue...Those O2s NEED to work...

I do NOT feel this is a 'failure' of the EMS, as it is finding certain combos O2 mountings don't work well...{My add}and need to be corrected before one can expect ANY closed loop system to work properly.